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Aluminum renaissance?

March 8, 2019, 8:02 a.m.
Posts: 1063
Joined: Nov. 21, 2002

https://www.bike-eu.com/sales-trends/nieuws/2019/03/new-welding-technology-takes-hi-end-aluminum-frames-to-next-level-10135473

Tl;dr new way to weld 7075 aluminum. Strength approaching steel, weight approaching carbon, no increase in cost of manufacturing (theoretically)

March 8, 2019, 8:06 a.m.
Posts: 1098
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

Heard about this, Sagan has been riding this new sorcery.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/peter-sagan-to-debut-alloy-frame-and-tubeless-tyres-in-down-under-classic-gallery/

March 8, 2019, 8:25 a.m.
Posts: 405
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Posted by: UFO

https://www.bike-eu.com/sales-trends/nieuws/2019/03/new-welding-technology-takes-hi-end-aluminum-frames-to-next-level-10135473

Tl;dr new way to weld 7075 aluminum. Strength approaching steel, weight approaching carbon, no increase in cost of manufacturing (theoretically)

Leo's not going to be pleased about this.

March 8, 2019, 8:36 a.m.
Posts: 3464
Joined: Dec. 17, 2003

Meanwhile, Trek is about to launch some kind of new wonder carbon, that'll be the next battle in the R+D war between them and Specialized.

March 8, 2019, 8:56 a.m.
Posts: 756
Joined: March 18, 2017

Besides WAO and me Renthal cahbin bahs, im pretty meh on Carbon now.  (Unless we talking Robot Bike Co. then strong maybe) 

A carbon FS bike can be had for $4500CDN with absolute shit suspension, wheels and components. Everyone is “Wow, many fibers, such prestige” 

Eff it too long to rant.

March 8, 2019, 11:35 p.m.
Posts: 1063
Joined: Nov. 21, 2002

Posted by: craw

Leo's not going to be pleased about this.

But just think about the ocean fill

March 9, 2019, 8:20 a.m.
Posts: 405
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

It would be cool to see a more efficient way to build a bike out of 7075 rather than Pole's way, which seems like a lot of added effort. Does 7075 need to be heat treated after this new process? Can someone with some related knowledge comment on that - just because 7075 can be welded can this process realistically be used for making bikes?

March 9, 2019, 11:01 a.m.
Posts: 756
Joined: March 18, 2017

Posted by: UFO

Posted by: craw

Leo's not going to be pleased about this.

But just think about the ocean fill

Lol

March 9, 2019, 2:34 p.m.
Posts: 1063
Joined: Nov. 21, 2002

Posted by: craw

It would be cool to see a more efficient way to build a bike out of 7075 rather than Pole's way, which seems like a lot of added effort. Does 7075 need to be heat treated after this new process? Can someone with some related knowledge comment on that - just because 7075 can be welded can this process realistically be used for making bikes?

I think the advantage Pole has is it takes basically no labour. The CNC is all automated and alignment should be perfect each time. So it is efficient but in a different way

From the article: the welded joints show amazing strengths. They show a tensile strength of up to 392 megapascals – by contrast, the commonly-used 6061 aluminum alloy has a weld strength of 186 megapascals. What’s more, it is believed that post-welding heat treatments could boost the strength of the 7075 welds up to 551 megapascals, which is on par with the weld strength of steel.

My question is whether that figure for 6061 is after the common T6 heat treatment. Another that someone more qualified could answer for me is whether this tensile strength of the joint is a good measure of 'real world strength'. Either way weld strength equivalent to steel is good enough for my books. 

Knolly would be a great voice on this cutting edge tech *winks at admins*

March 9, 2019, 2:54 p.m.
Posts: 521
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

from what i've read, the differences between 6000 series alum, and 7075 are not great enough to be meaningful for bikes.

March 9, 2019, 5:13 p.m.
Posts: 44
Joined: March 13, 2017

Posted by: JBV

from what i've read, the differences between 6000 series alum, and 7075 are not great enough to be meaningful for bikes.

Who wrote what you've read? Bike manufacturers using 6000 series alum because 7075 is to expensive to work with?

Not saying that's a fact, just saying that would be what I would say, if I was a manufacturer and I weighed the cost vs strength/stiffness question and 7075 came up to expensive.

March 9, 2019, 9:10 p.m.
Posts: 3464
Joined: Dec. 17, 2003

Posted by: UFO  The CNC is all automated and alignment should be perfect each time.

Pretty sure that's not the way CNC works. Pretty sure there's lots of set up and checking before you get to hit run. And given the size of the pieces being made it's not like you can make a dozen per slab of aluminium.

March 10, 2019, 4:50 a.m.
Posts: 24
Joined: Dec. 1, 2008

Posted by: craw

It would be cool to see a more efficient way to build a bike out of 7075 rather than Pole's way, which seems like a lot of added effort. Does 7075 need to be heat treated after this new process? Can someone with some related knowledge comment on that - just because 7075 can be welded can this process realistically be used for making bikes?

So far, I'm not entirely convinced that Poles way of making bikes has actual performance benefits over bog standard welded 6061 tubing. They have a unique look and allow for more creative shapes. But those frames are far from light. Given that welded frames of similar weight are pretty strong already, is the whole CNC+7075 affair actually necessary?


 Last edited by: Timer on March 10, 2019, 4:51 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
March 10, 2019, 4:30 p.m.
Posts: 153
Joined: March 6, 2017

Posted by: Timer

Posted by: craw

It would be cool to see a more efficient way to build a bike out of 7075 rather than Pole's way, which seems like a lot of added effort. Does 7075 need to be heat treated after this new process? Can someone with some related knowledge comment on that - just because 7075 can be welded can this process realistically be used for making bikes?

So far, I'm not entirely convinced that Poles way of making bikes has actual performance benefits over bog standard welded 6061 tubing. They have a unique look and allow for more creative shapes. But those frames are far from light. Given that welded frames of similar weight are pretty strong already, is the whole CNC+7075 affair actually necessary?

Well I mean they can control the thickness of the 'tubes' in High/low stress areas which is pretty cool. Can't really do that with welded aluminum tubes frames unless the tubes are butted.

March 10, 2019, 8:44 p.m.
Posts: 2209
Joined: Sept. 5, 2012

Is Pole forging their material prior to machining or are they using billet plate? A couple pallet changing horizontals , and probing in a well designed forging they could pump them out pretty quick. With the right equipment and programming they could run lights out.

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