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26" wheelset decisions

Nov. 17, 2014, 8:31 a.m.
Posts: 1010
Joined: June 26, 2012

I'm trying to make some decisions on a wheelset for my 26" AM bike and wanted some input. The main choice is on what to do with the rear wheel, and for the front I will get the matching rim built to Hope Pro 2.

CRC has a Frequency i23 built to DT Swiss 240 hub for a good price, or for about the same, Dunbar Cycles can build me a wheel with Hope Pro 2 Evo with Flow/Arch/i23/i25.

My current rims are Frequency i23s and I'd be happy with another set, so the main factor is the hub. Although the DT 240 is considered a higher-end hub, is there any reason to go Hope over DT?

And if I do go the Hope route, which rim would I want of the four options given the choice?

Nov. 17, 2014, 8:46 a.m.
Posts: 10
Joined: Jan. 12, 2006

Do you plan on having the wheels long enough/logging enough miles to ever need to change the bearings? If so, Hope [HTML_REMOVED] DT in every. Single. Way.

The DTs have finer engagement but unless you're one of those people that gets hung up on that kind of thing Hopes would be my first choice of hub hands down.

Nov. 17, 2014, 11:22 a.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Sept. 20, 2006

Flow EX rims are well and positively documented with regards to longevity and tubeless capability. 25.5mm inner width keeps up with the current trend of wider is better without compromises: wider = heavier, weaker, more expensive.

Nov. 17, 2014, 12:36 p.m.
Posts: 5
Joined: July 7, 2007

Hopes [HTML_REMOVED] Flows are a great setup, easy to service and strong rims.

If you are a lighter rider and/or don't care about the extra width in the rim, then an Arch rim will save a bit of weight, but for fit and forget Flows have lasted me for years, including light use in the park.

Nov. 17, 2014, 1:17 p.m.
Posts: 5738
Joined: May 28, 2005

i think i'm having a case of the mondays, because some of these responses aren't computing

wider = weaker

really?

Do you plan on having the wheels long enough/logging enough miles to ever need to change the bearings? If so, Hope [HTML_REMOVED] DT in every. Single. Way.

i've changed the bearings on both of brands' hubs and didn't find the time or difficulty to be that dissimilar. are you referring to sourcing the bearings? the process? please explain

The DTs have finer engagement but unless you're one of those people that gets hung up on that kind of thing Hopes would be my first choice of hub hands down.

what do you mean by "finer" engagement?

"Nobody really gives a shit that you don't like the thing that you have no firsthand experience with." Dave

Nov. 17, 2014, 1:49 p.m.
Posts: 10
Joined: Jan. 12, 2006

i think i'm having a case of the mondays, because some of these responses aren't computing

really?

i've changed the bearings on both of brands' hubs and didn't find the time or difficulty to be that dissimilar. are you referring to sourcing the bearings? the process? please explain

what do you mean by "finer" engagement?

In order to remove the driveside hub bearing in a DT hub you have to unscrew that stupid star-ratchet retaining ring. It is always seized as it tightens under pedalling load. It's a terrible design and I'd never buy another DT hub for this reason alone.

The finer engagement refers to the amount of rotation before the drive mechanism engages. I think all DT hubs ship with the 48 point ratchets now, which means one has to pedal 360/48 = 7.5 degrees before the hub engages. I've no idea what a modern Hope hub comes with in terms of engagement. I seem to recall it being 24 point engagement, so one would have to pedal 15 degrees before the hub engages. This is one of those things that some people swear they could never go back to, but I'd gladly take the ever-so-slightly-slower engagement in order to have a hub I can actually rebuild without wanting to murder small puppies.

Nov. 17, 2014, 2:22 p.m.
Posts: 5738
Joined: May 28, 2005

Hope [HTML_REMOVED] DT in every. Single. Way.

In order to remove the driveside hub bearing in a DT hub you have to unscrew that stupid star-ratchet retaining ring.

i guess i've only pulled apart older ones - the hayes branded hugi's didn't have retaining rings iirc.

still, one issue would hardly seem to qualify as superiority in every. single. way

The finer engagement refers to the amount of rotation before the drive mechanism engages.

ah. no:

dt swiss hubs come with 18-point star ratchets stock. you can get a 36 point ratchet with double the number of engagement points after market

hope pro 2 evo hubs come with 40 points of engagement

"Nobody really gives a shit that you don't like the thing that you have no firsthand experience with." Dave

Nov. 17, 2014, 2:27 p.m.
Posts: 5738
Joined: May 28, 2005

is there any reason to go Hope over DT?

they make different noises. hope is likely a bit cheaper, comes in more colors. also cheaper and easier to swap between axle standards

And if I do go the Hope route, which rim would I want of the four options given the choice?

flow = i25 = wider, stronger (i think - ken?), heavier
arch = i23 = narrower, weaker, lighter

"Nobody really gives a shit that you don't like the thing that you have no firsthand experience with." Dave

Nov. 17, 2014, 2:37 p.m.
Posts: 10
Joined: Jan. 12, 2006

i guess i've only pulled apart older ones - the hayes branded hugi's didn't have retaining rings iirc.

still, one issue would hardly seem to qualify as superiority in every. single. way

Right, the Hugi's use a different, simpler, and far easier to service design. I dunno. I guess I see a hub design I can literally completely rebuild in 10 minutes with nothing more than a hammer and screwdriver as being vastly superior to one that requires an acetylene torch and a specific (and not cheap!) tool to remove the retaining ring. But that's just me.

hope pro 2 evo hubs come with 40 points of engagement

This is a post-evo thing, and would seal the deal for me…

Nov. 17, 2014, 2:49 p.m.
Posts: 1647
Joined: Jan. 12, 2010

Flow EX rims are well and positively documented with regards to longevity and tubeless capability. 25.5mm inner width keeps up with the current trend of wider is better without compromises: wider = heavier, weaker, more expensive.

Flow EX rims are the hardest rims in the world to get a tubeless tire to seat to or to get a clincher onto. I mean these things are so ungodly evil I wanted to give up riding because of how evil they were. It is a vicious blend of width and low profile. The tire has to stretch really far and then has nothing to speak of to grab onto once you start inflating it.

FTR, I say this as someone that's good at changing tires on a bike. Not quite Stephen Matthews good, but after a few hundred a season in my youth I have the touch.

Nov. 17, 2014, 2:58 p.m.
Posts: 15019
Joined: April 5, 2007

Have a set of Pro2 Evos with 40T engagement hub. Also have 3 complete sets of 240 hubs, plus a set of 350s, and had 340s on a previous bike.

Is this for a front or rear wheel? There are various reasons to go with either hub.

I went with the Pro2s as it is on a DH bike, I wanted less expensive hubs, and I figured I'd throw some colour into the mix, while trying out a new to myself product.

Why slag free swag?:rolleyes:

ummm, as your doctor i recommend against riding with a scaphoid fracture.

Nov. 17, 2014, 3 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Sept. 20, 2006

i think i'm having a case of the mondays, because some of these responses aren't computing

Could have been more specific: pick 1 or more of the three. Super wide rims compromise on at least one of those items so it ends up being "how much are you willing to spend, how strong do they need to be, how light do you want them" type of scenario.

Flow EX rims are the hardest rims in the world to get a tubeless tire to seat to or to get a clincher onto. I mean these things are so ungodly evil I wanted to give up riding because of how evil they were. It is a vicious blend of width and low profile. The tire has to stretch really far and then has nothing to speak of to grab onto once you start inflating it.

FTR, I say this as someone that's good at changing tires on a bike. Not quite Stephen Matthews good, but after a few hundred a season in my youth I have the touch.

Hence great for tubeless. All tires vary in bead seat diameter so some are easier than others. I'd rather a very tight fit to prevent burping.

Nov. 17, 2014, 3:01 p.m.
Posts: 136
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Flow EX rims are the hardest rims in the world to get a tubeless tire to seat to or to get a clincher onto. I mean these things are so ungodly evil I wanted to give up riding because of how evil they were. It is a vicious blend of width and low profile. The tire has to stretch really far and then has nothing to speak of to grab onto once you start inflating it.

really? I must've not gotten the memo as I set up two tires tubeless on flow ex's on Friday night with nary a whimper.

Nov. 17, 2014, 3:06 p.m.
Posts: 5738
Joined: May 28, 2005

The main choice is on what to do with the rear wheel… is there any reason to go Hope over DT?

Have a set of Pro2 Evos with 40T engagement hub. Also have 3 complete sets of 240 hubs, plus a set of 350s, and had 340s on a previous bike.

Is this for a front or rear wheel? There are various reasons to go with either hub.

I went with the Pro2s as it is on a DH bike, I wanted less expensive hubs, and I figured I'd throw some colour into the mix, while trying out a new to myself product.

i like how you both ignored and dismissed the op's question, and told us a little bit about yourself instead :)

"Nobody really gives a shit that you don't like the thing that you have no firsthand experience with." Dave

Nov. 17, 2014, 3:22 p.m.
Posts: 1010
Joined: June 26, 2012

really? I must've not gotten the memo as I set up two tires tubeless on flow ex's on Friday night with nary a whimper.

I have Sun Charger Pros on my hardtail that use the Stans bead profile. Specialized 2Bliss tires seat just as easily tubeless with a floor pump as my UST i23s. I have no qualms about either system based on this reason.

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