2021 - Full Suspension Bike Thread

Posted by: thaaad

I'm glad you're getting help but IMO it should have come from Transition. Your bike shop should not have to feel obligated to help you out when Transition is the one supplying the bike with the "wrong" parts on it, and if they do then I would hope that Transition is reimbursing them in some way.

Why doesn't this surprize me.

I definitely agree that it’s unfortunate that the LBS was the one to fix the dropper situation (shout out to the excellent service at North Shore Bike Shop on Lonsdale) but in Transition's defence, the length of dropper is not specified on their spec sheet and if I was on the shorter side but still within a medium bike, a 170/180 would be too long. 

The take home message is that North Shore Bike Shop saved the day! Bravo!

Posted by: tungsten

Why doesn't this surprize me.

Go on.

Posted by: thaaad

Posted by: tungsten

Why doesn't this surprize me.

Go on.

TBH, it is not unreasonable to ask a shop to help you out to swap a part to make a customer happy when they purchase a 60000-10000$ bike. Really, swapping a 150 to a 175 or 180 identical seatpost is a dealbreaker for a shop? I am not surprised that Thaad thought this was reasonable. Nor would I be surprised if any shop or bike manufacturer helped out a customer in this regard.

When did a $5000+ bike purchase become such a small deal. That is a huge chunk of change to drop on a bicycle for anyone. I would expect the "right size for me" dropper as well.

what about inhouse droppers, should shops switch them out to another length too? slippery slope imho…

Just to clarify I said that it should be Transitions responsibility, but that it was great that the shop took control of the situation and helped the customer.

Swapped tires to Maxxis and got in a 75min shakedown ride at Seymour yesterday and am very impressed so far. I started with a pedal up the road to Mushroom lot (great way to test a 37lbs enduro bike with a fresh Assegai MaxxGrip/DHRII MaxxTerra DoubleDown right?), took me 47min on the Patrol while recent efforts on my old bike were 45-46min, PR is 41:30 last summer when I was 20lbs less fat, so really no difference there. Seated climbing position is very comfortable for spinning, actually feels a touch shorter than my old bike due to the steeper STA, might slide saddle back a touch as I have it forward. Rode some natural singletrack to start and right away the bike felt so much more confident descending. I haven't ridden a 29er much in recent years but wow the roll-over and bump eating was just absurd. It's hard to say which is the biggest contributor between the 38 vs 36, 29er wheel size, fresh Assegai vs. year-old DHF and -2deg HTA but I just felt so confident on the thing. Rode some fast flowy trail with doubles and a bunch of short catch berms and it just felt great, the bigger front wheel didn't feel all that different going into the turns and the mullet rear end felt like it came around really quick. On Pingu it just ate up the drops and chunk and carried speed a lot better than my old bike. The calmness of the chassis reminded me of a DH bike in a way, not totally there without the double crown fork but toward the end of the spectrum. My old bike wasn't twitchy or anything but it wasn't as confidence inspiring just pointing through rocky stuff. I can't wait to try this bike on stuff in Pemberton like Overnight Sensation/Rusty/Hawaii etc. and some trails in Nelson that are fast chunky singletrack.

Didn't get a chance to try any singletrack climbing so no comments there yet. Might try to do an Old Buck/Severed/Academy/GSM/Boogieman ride tomorrow to see how the longer bike feels on techier climbs and slower janky-ish trails (not that Severed or Boogie are that janky). Could feel the difference with 165mm cranks but I'm a spinner and have 170's on my road bike so they felt fine, at least on the paved climb I did. No pedal strikes descending but I wasn't pedaling. 

From my old bike, the Patrol in high is -2deg HTA, +1.6deg ESTA, +18mm reach, +8mm "effective" reach due to shorter stem, +15mm stack, +8mm chainstays, +51mm wheel base, -4mm BB height and 4.5lbs heavier with pedals. Bar height is pretty close to my old bike at around 1065mm to top of grips, measured imperfectly by myself holding the bike up solo haha.

Re: dropper, my large Patrol came with a 180mm OneUp, and I'm actually running it slightly more out of the frame than in the pics above (5'10", 30" measured inseam). Funnily, I have more of the lower post exposed on this bike than my old bike which was a gen1 Fox Transfer 150mm, granted my old bike had a +5mm longer seat tube and 175mm cranks vs. 165mm. The lower stack height of the OneUp makes a huge difference. The 180mm drop was noticeably better than the 150mm even on the first ride... 150 was "ok" but I would feel the seat from time to time, 180 is awesome.

Will post more thoughts after a few more rides but I'm pretty damn stoked on the thing. I wanted a bike that would inspire confidence descending as I have a tendency to ride below my abilities out of an abundance of caution to not get injured with two young kids at home, and I don't want to change that, but I do want to have more fun.

Gonna keep pumping up Transition's tires a bit here (heh), but they are offering pretty compelling spec on their bikes. The Spire XT/Fox Factory Ddean has is $9,299 with Factory 38/X2, full XT build including RT86 203mm rotors, metal pads in the brakes etc, DT Swiss 350 star ratchet hubs/Spline EX1700 wheels, OneUp dropper/bash guide and ANVL (Transition house brand) stem/bar/saddle. Rocky just released their 2022 bikes, the $9,139 Altitude Carbon C70 has a Performance Elite 38, Performance X2, XT drivetrain/brakes, Rocky Mountain house brand front hub, DT Swiss 370 (not star ratchet) rear hub, RF AR 30 rims and house brand bar/stem. $160 cheaper but many annoying spec compromises on a 9 grand bike!

Posted by: grambo

Gonna keep pumping up Transition's tires a bit here (heh), but they are offering pretty compelling spec on their bikes. The Spire XT/Fox Factory Ddean has is $9,299 with Factory 38/X2, full XT build including RT86 203mm rotors, metal pads in the brakes etc, DT Swiss 350 star ratchet hubs/Spline EX1700 wheels, OneUp dropper/bash guide and ANVL (Transition house brand) stem/bar/saddle. Rocky just released their 2022 bikes, the $9,139 Altitude Carbon C70 has a Performance Elite 38, Performance X2, XT drivetrain/brakes, Rocky Mountain house brand front hub, DT Swiss 370 (not star ratchet) rear hub, RF AR 30 rims and house brand bar/stem. $160 cheaper but many annoying spec compromises on a 9 grand bike!

Carbon tax. 

Gimmie that patrol in your picture any day. Raw metal FTW.

Posted by: DemonMike

Did you get evacuated? I know of people who have in that region. I have only been here for a year next month. Have yet to ride, been over a year for me now.

Yeah, family was out. I had to stick around for work, finally got to head down to the Fraser Valley the past couple days. I hope you're doing well because I see the Sparks fire is creeping in on Barriere.

...

On to the bike!

I spent a few hours at Thornhill doing laps for a bit of a proper shakedown on the flowy jump lines. I wanted a bike to hopefully suit the smoother faster trails you tend to find in the Kamloops area, and I think this will do nicely.

Still no weight. Next time I'm in Kamloops I'll see if some bike shop will let me break their scale.

Pros:

• Climbs way better than I imagined it would. For what it's worth, I'm definitely of the seated and spinning school than the stand and mash. The front stays planted with minimal hunching over the bar. I actually had to consciously think about not leaning forward so much because its a bit of an automatic response. The rear suspension is reasonably calm, able to maintain traction, and responsive to unweighting to hop the rear wheel over things. It motored over some big nasty roots that I thought I would stall out on without much fuss. Basically I felt like I could relax more when climbing and chug my way up.
• Anti-squat feels quite balanced. I was kinda worried about "the numbers," but as usual, it's more than just the numbers. I didn't feel like my feet were getting excessively jostled despite me riding in my Chuck Taylors... I was stopping to check out the jumps before hitting them the first time like a good boy, and I felt there was a good amount of support when you hammer out a few pedal strokes to get up to speed. No excessive mush or bobbing to be had.
• Good support to push against in corners and off the lips of jumps.
• I think its the extra stack, but I didn't find the long chainstays made it difficult to get on the back wheel.
• Rear traction feels great. I didn't feel the back end skipping around in turns or under braking. Most of the trails back home were torched in the fire but there are a lot more fast flat corners I'll be checking out whenever we get back in there.
• Confidence-inspiring. From time to tim I think we can all end up fighting the "lean back!" lizard brain response. I felt like I could really ride the front wheel and hit the turns pretty damn hard. Dare I say I slapped a couple berms.
• This bike wants to go FAST.

Cons:

• Takes a fair bit of effort if you want to kick the back end loose. It will do it, you just gotta really mean it. This bike is much more about business than goofin'.
• I can see the desire for speed writing cheques that the amount of suspension can't quite cash if you aren't paying attention in the rough.
• Frame protection was peeling off out of the box. Privateer had another set in the mail before they even replied to my inquiry, so we'll see if I can fix it up.
• I noticed a bit of chain noise as well. I think this has more to do with the fact the clutch on my GX derailleur is punched than anything inherent in the frame design. The actual coverage of the included chainstay/seatstay protection seems good, although it could probably be thicker material.

Future changes? I want to move away from the disposable SRAM clutches and everyone talks about 12-spd Shimano like it's the second coming of the baby Jesus. Unfortunately I doubt I can find a microspline freehub for my SRAM-branded hubs. I'm probably going to drop the coin on a new wheelset next year and move to microspline so I can throw an SLX 12-speed drivetrain at it.

I probably could have gone for a more conventional brand, but I wanted Alloy, and I didn't feel like spending $6,000+ to get the good suspension bits on a new bike. It's still the honeymoon phase, but I think I got what I was looking for. Also I now have so many pirate-themed options for naming my bike, possibly the best part.

Posted by: VandyUnfortunately I doubt I can find a microspline freehub for my SRAM-branded hubs. I'm probably going to drop the coin on a new wheelset next year and move to microspline so I can throw an SLX 12-speed drivetrain at it.

Nice summary, enjoy the bike.

According to all accounts, Shimano 12 peed drivetrains work with SRAM XD 12 speed cassettes. So you can swap in an XT or SLX derailleur & shifter and keep your wheel & cassette.

grambo, I think that you're going to continue to be blown away. I have the same issue as you - ride more cautiously than I should because of work and family. Ive had some awkward moments showing up at work all broken; I want to avoid that in the future.

My guess is that our bikes are going to feel extremely similar - youll find that it navigates tight climbing switchbacks just fine. Get your weight forward and move the pivot point of the bike forward and its a breeze.

I feel that this year the geos of most manufacturers have finally nailed it. Even 3 years ago I think that reach only got to where it should have been if you sized up and while the bikes were slack, they had not figured seat tube angles out yet. Ive already hit a bunch of things that I have not since I had a DH bike, and without any issues.

I agree velocipedestrian, raw is beautiful. I happen to really love the huckelberry of my Spire. I probably would have ordered raw alloy if they didnt offer this purple in carbon. I wonder what the weight difference is - 2 or 3 lbs?

EDIT: Grambo, Ive been modifying my setup and yesterdays 3400 ft climb was much better than those before. Higher PSI by almost 10% versus fox recommended settings and a seat post that is extended higher than normal to account for the sag on the climbs (I come from road bikes so I already like a higher saddle height than most here), and saddle slide a bit forward on its rails. I have no idea what my sag % is now but I bet its below the recommended percent. The pedal platform was very solid and I didnt feel that the set up hurt me on the decent. More testing required but Im headed in the right direction.

Posted by: rnayel

Posted by: VandyUnfortunately I doubt I can find a microspline freehub for my SRAM-branded hubs. I'm probably going to drop the coin on a new wheelset next year and move to microspline so I can throw an SLX 12-speed drivetrain at it.

Nice summary, enjoy the bike.

According to all accounts, Shimano 12 peed drivetrains work with SRAM XD 12 speed cassettes. So you can swap in an XT or SLX derailleur & shifter and keep your wheel & cassette.

Hmmmm. Well I'm currently flogging some 11 speed GX so I would be replacing everything. That said, keeping my perfectly good wheels sounds like a good idea to me. Thanks for the tip!

Posted by: Ddean

grambo, I think that you're going to continue to be blown away. I have the same issue as you - ride more cautiously than I should because of work and family. Ive had some awkward moments showing up at work all broken; I want to avoid that in the future.

My guess is that our bikes are going to feel extremely similar - youll find that it navigates tight climbing switchbacks just fine. Get your weight forward and move the pivot point of the bike forward and its a breeze.

I feel that this year the geos of most manufacturers have finally nailed it. Even 3 years ago I think that reach only got to where it should have been if you sized up and while the bikes were slack, they had not figured seat tube angles out yet. Ive already hit a bunch of things that I have not since I had a DH bike, and without any issues.

I agree velocipedestrian, raw is beautiful. I happen to really love the huckelberry of my Spire. I probably would have ordered raw alloy if they didnt offer this purple in carbon. I wonder what the weight difference is - 2 or 3 lbs?

EDIT: Grambo, Ive been modifying my setup and yesterdays 3400 ft climb was much better than those before. Higher PSI by almost 10% versus fox recommended settings and a seat post that is extended higher than normal to account for the sag on the climbs (I come from road bikes so I already like a higher saddle height than most here), and saddle slide a bit forward on its rails. I have no idea what my sag % is now but I bet its below the recommended percent. The pedal platform was very solid and I didnt feel that the set up hurt me on the decent. More testing required but Im headed in the right direction.

Managed to sneak out for a Seymour lunch ride Friday, went up Old Buck/BP to Powerlines in the same amount of time as the old bike and felt like the same effort. Unfortunately I managed to cut open my brand new rear DHR II DoubleDown on a rock off one of those drops on Severed (the one beside the newish log skinny). I seem to have bad luck with random mechnicals on new bikes, broke an XTR chain on first ride on my last bike, and I have never cut a DD/DH casing tire in my life before. Put two bacon strips in the hole and wasted two co2 before I realized the sidewall wasn't sealing for some reason and had to do the walk of shame. Lesson learned: carry a damn pump. At home the rim and tape looked fine so not sure what happened.

The Patrol felt amazing on that first minute or so of Severed after the John Deer turn off though, can definitely ride faster and more comfortable than my old rig. Didn't get to climb GSM so that will wait for another day, hopefully tomorrow.

I think the huckleberry and primer gray both look amazing on the Spire. On the alloy Patrol I thought the raw was a no brainer, it looks awesome in person and paint on carbon looks better than alloy in my opinion. I didn't put a ride wrap/protection film on the frame cuz I think it would hide the raw look? Never put protection on my bikes in the past anyway. I think weight wise it's gotta be 1-2lbs, Transition lists the medium Spire XT at 33 and Patrol XT at 34.1. Kinetik weighed my large in at 36.1, can't imagine medium to large in 2lbs so maybe they weighed a prototype? Haven't weighed my bike at home yet but the swap to DD tires from Schwalbes gains 70g but that's offset putting my Renthal Fatbar carbon on. Either way, with pedals it has to be pushing 37lbs.

Ddean: do you run the same pedal to saddle height on your mountain bikes as road? I need to measure but I think I'm a bit lower on my mountain bike, but I also run my cleats slammed back on mountain bike for descending whereas road I have them toward mid-range. Cool to hear your changes made a difference, what are you running in your X2 pressure wise? I'm a big dude, even moreso these days, 220lbs before gearing up and am at 280 psi for 32%. Might go up to 300 next ride (max pressure) and see how it feels as the back felt a bit soft the limited time I've been riding. Haven't had a chance to see if there are spacers in the 38/X2 yet either. Will see how that goes, might end up on a DHX2 like I did last trail bike.

Planning on Whistler Friday but it's looking wet like last Friday. Trying to get a nice day up there to really ride the bike.

Vandy: That Privateer looks awesome, was eyeing the 141 and and 161 but convinced myself I wanted to rock a mullet. Haven't heard a bad thing about either of those bikes.