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11spd Experiments

Dec. 2, 2013, 7:07 a.m.
Posts: 6449
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Same as your middle chainring on a 3x setup, so no the chainline is fine.

In a 3x setup you're not really "supposed" to cross load gears like that either - doesn't make it any better than a 1x setup.

Seems like fast ways to kill a drivetrain, especially with the pinner little cogs and chains on today's 10spd systems.

Dec. 2, 2013, 8:28 a.m.
Posts: 2120
Joined: Nov. 6, 2005

In a 3x setup you're not really "supposed" to cross load gears like that either - doesn't make it any better than a 1x setup.

Seems like fast ways to kill a drivetrain, especially with the pinner little cogs and chains on today's 10spd systems.

No drivetrain is immune from wear.. its not a magic bullet for preventing this. You asked about the chainline and that's the answer.

Dec. 2, 2013, 9:37 a.m.
Posts: 5731
Joined: June 24, 2003

In a 3x setup you're not really "supposed" to cross load gears like that either - doesn't make it any better than a 1x setup.

Seems like fast ways to kill a drivetrain, especially with the pinner little cogs and chains on today's 10spd systems.

What do you mean a pinner? 10 and 11? Those don't get used much and I have never seen one worn out. It's the middle to low cogs that wear out. Cog width has not changed since 8 speed. Maybe even ever. So if you are using ten or eleven cogs versus eight or nine the wear is spread out over more cogs so cassettes will last longer in theory. Inner dimensions on chains has not changed either. The actual chain size has always been 1/2 inch by 3/32. The plates are thinner though and rivets became flush a long time ago. I can't say if my chains have worn faster of not. I don't keep records but my sense is that chains don't wear out any faster.

Debate? Bikes are made for riding not pushing.

Dec. 2, 2013, 10:21 a.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Sept. 20, 2006

I'd don't get the increase wear argument. For 11spd drivetrains, average chainline stays static. For 10spd 1x converts, there are no changes in chainline. The argument of spending more time in the 36T cog is nominal, since it is likely you spent the same amount of time in a 36 rear / 32 front if running a triple setup, and only shifting down to the granny once in a blue moon.

When compared to true 2x setups, the 1x drivetrain setup actually improves since you spent most of you time in the bigger of the two rings, but that bigger ring (32-38T size most likely) actually sits in between the middle and outer ring of a triple crankset,making the chainline worse when staying in the 36T cog.

Furthermore, for riders opting for the Race Face 30T narrow wide ring, the design parameters move the ring inboard of the usual position, improving the chainline in the easier gears, which is where most 1x riders keep their chain while riding.

If anything, 1x improves the average chainline and theoretically increases chain life.

Personally, I could care less about chainline. Dust, dirt and mud are much more detrimental to chain life than chainline.

Dec. 2, 2013, 11:05 a.m.
Posts: 2120
Joined: Nov. 6, 2005

I'd don't get the increase wear argument. For 11spd drivetrains, average chainline stays static. For 10spd 1x converts, there are no changes in chainline. The argument of spending more time in the 36T cog is nominal, since it is likely you spent the same amount of time in a 36 rear / 32 front if running a triple setup, and only shifting down to the granny once in a blue moon.

When compared to true 2x setups, the 1x drivetrain setup actually improves since you spent most of you time in the bigger of the two rings, but that bigger ring (32-38T size most likely) actually sits in between the middle and outer ring of a triple crankset,making the chainline worse when staying in the 36T cog.

Furthermore, for riders opting for the Race Face 30T narrow wide ring, the design parameters move the ring inboard of the usual position, improving the chainline in the easier gears, which is where most 1x riders keep their chain while riding.

If anything, 1x improves the average chainline and theoretically increases chain life.

Personally, I could care less about chainline. Dust, dirt and mud are much more detrimental to chain life than chainline.

Thank you for properly describing what was trapped in my head but I was unable to articulate this morning… bottom line is take care of your drivetrain, change the chain before it stretches too much and you will maximize its life, regardless of configuration.

Dec. 7, 2013, 3:17 p.m.
Posts: 3874
Joined: Sept. 23, 2005

I like that my 2x set up allows for redundancy in the event of a bent derailleur hanger.

thinkin bout bikes

Dec. 8, 2013, 8:01 a.m.
Posts: 6449
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

The argument of spending more time in the 36T cog is nominal, since it is likely you spent the same amount of time in a 36 rear / 32 front if running a triple setup, and only shifting down to the granny once in a blue moon.

Maybe it's because of my geographical location but I have never in my life found myself in the 36t rear / 32t front, just screams bad shifting etiquette to me?
….but maybe this is why even after more than 200 days of riding my chains still show no stretch.

I guess I'm just learning alot about how the rest of the riding world shifts in this thread!

Dec. 8, 2013, 9:31 a.m.
Posts: 2120
Joined: Nov. 6, 2005

Maybe it's because of my geographical location but I have never in my life found myself in the 36t rear / 32t front, just screams bad shifting etiquette to me?
….but maybe this is why even after more than 200 days of riding my chains still show no stretch.

I guess I'm just learning alot about how the rest of the riding world shifts in this thread!

I'm in the same area as you are and I do most of my climbing in the middle ring, even when I had a 3x setup in the past. Rarely had to use a granny as a bailout. How are you measuring chain stretch? I find it hard to believe that yours shows zero signs of wear after that much riding.

Dec. 9, 2013, 6:25 p.m.
Posts: 889
Joined: June 26, 2012

Wolf Tooth just posted a 42t cog they have in the works. https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.241203446045125.1073741839.155112457987558[HTML_REMOVED]type=1

Dec. 9, 2013, 8:20 p.m.
Posts: 2313
Joined: Sept. 18, 2008

Maybe it's because of my geographical location but I have never in my life found myself in the 36t rear / 32t front, just screams bad shifting etiquette to me?
….but maybe this is why even after more than 200 days of riding my chains still show no stretch.

I guess I'm just learning alot about how the rest of the riding world shifts in this thread!

a lot of squishy bikes climb much better in 32 than in granny, so many people avoid the granny unless there's a long steep climb. by the same token, when i'm in the granny ring, i'm usually only on the biggest couple cogs out back, otherwise i stay in 36-36 so that my bike doesn't feel like a sack of shit.

in my mind, this is the single best advantage of a single ring setup - squishy bike pedals better.

Dec. 27, 2013, 6:37 a.m.
Posts: 489
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

*bump

So I just read Cam's article today: http://www.nsmb.com/nsmb-staff-picks-cam-mcrae/ and he suggests that we needed bashguards because of the 32t rings most of us use - and that XX1 removes the need for a bashguard because a 30t ring is much smaller. Is this really the case? I always figured you'd be likely to nail your chainrings from time to time regardless of size. In fact I've been looking at one of these for when I inevitably go 1X (with a 30t, like Cam): http://www.blackspire.com/BRUISER

There's nothing better than an Orangina after cheating death with Digger.

Dec. 27, 2013, 10:28 a.m.
Posts: 10309
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

especially if I went full xx1/xo1 I would run a bash. just go find out how much chains and rings are and ask yourself if you would rather bash on them or something that was designed to be smacked.

Check my stuff for sale!

Dec. 27, 2013, 10:37 a.m.
Posts: 2080
Joined: April 2, 2005

http://www.blackspire.com/BRUISER

are these available yet? crc only lists the 36 and 40t version

MTB-Freeride.TV

Dec. 27, 2013, 12:22 p.m.
Posts: 333
Joined: Dec. 21, 2008

*bump

So I just read Cam's article today: http://www.nsmb.com/nsmb-staff-picks-cam-mcrae/ and he suggests that we needed bashguards because of the 32t rings most of us use - and that XX1 removes the need for a bashguard because a 30t ring is much smaller. Is this really the case? I always figured you'd be likely to nail your chainrings from time to time regardless of size. In fact I've been looking at one of these for when I inevitably go 1X (with a 30t, like Cam): http://www.blackspire.com/BRUISER

I recently made the switch to 1x on my Chilcotin, using a RF 30-tooth narrow-wide ring. I was worried about not having a bashguard, but have yet to hit the chainring on anything, despite the low BB on this bike in slack mode (still get quite a few pedal strikes). I am running a 11x36 cassette with a clutch derailleur. Super happy with this setup. Very quiet and no dropped chains. I don't worry about hitting the chainring anymore.

Dec. 27, 2013, 12:36 p.m.
Posts: 23
Joined: Aug. 27, 2007

I'm using one of these to protect my 30t RaceFace NW ring on my Enduro. Cheap, light, small and not in-your-face like lots of bashguards.


http://bbgbashguard.com/Mountainbike.html

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