ebikes on the Shore

Posted by: FLATCH

Then you’d be an asshole, a very disrespectful asshole

And if you’re trying to compare a class one ebike to a motorcycle well then you’d be a moron, a very disingenuous moron.

You're right, he would be.

I got passed on the Fromme road yesterday by a trio on ebikes going so fast it wasn't even worth saying hi.

At that point I feel it takes the "Chill time with your pals" out of the whole reason that I go on MTB rides.

Posted by: RAHrider

Posted by: heckler

Posted by: Hepcat

Posted by: heckler

I’ve heard this from a certified (usually on a pedal bike) instructor, who only realized her new to mtb students on their E-bikes did not use the shifter to climb a change in grade.  Only the power up button.  

She only realized this once she borrowed a powered bike cuz hers was down at Suspensionwerx. 

The lesson quickly changed to shifting.

This is hilarious. We went out while on vacation this summer on e-bikes for some mellow trail riding with a guide, the most emphasized instruction was to not use the shifters at all, just put it in turbo. 😆

I guess there is a difference between an E-bike tour guide and a certified MTB Instructor.

If I had a tour group on ebikes I would tell them to crank the power rather than shifting under the pedalling force of them + their 500w motor. Seems like a no Brainer for noobs on rented ebikes.

Also, who has ever heard of motorized transportation with a 12 speed transmission. They should make it three speeds - uphill, downhill and flat.

Well my 8 year old Audi has 8 speeds. I think the Honda Ridgeline is a 9 speed. Pretty sure there are 10 speed car and truck transmissions too.

The emotional responses on either side are not really helpful in ebike discussions. My first reactions to ebike were emotional really and I get that on both sides but it’s divisive like politics. I’m trying to keep the knee jerk emotional reaction out now. The real issue that doesn’t get discussed often is how more riders riding longer, further or more laps might impact all trail users. We are told it’s a good way to grow the sport but do we want growth? The prime reason for ebikes if for riders to be able to ride more in a given amount of time. The target market is not old people or the sick and infirm but young people with enough money. I tend to ride places that don’t see a lot of traffic due to the trails not being well known or they are hard to get to.

Here in Whistler Vail is building two higher capacity lifts at Creekside and more next year at the Village side. Vail knows the ski business but I don’t think they know skiing. Most skiers I know would rather wait in a lift line than wait to to ski down in a crowd. More terrain is a better way to increase capacity. So with ebikes we will need to increase the number of trails and perform more maintenance of existing trails as higher traffic will require more work. And think about the parking issues we already have in Squamish and North Vancouver already.

Really? 10 speed MANUAL transmissions? Sure automatic, who cares. 12 speed manual transmission with no clutch and the potential to ruin the transmission if you shift while pushing to many watts? As I have always said, ebikes are some of the crappiest engineered products out there. Cables everywhere. Delicate drivetrains. Too many gears. I digress as I know some people here really like riding them. I'm sure they think my bike with no suspension is equally underengineered.

Well said Andy

If people are going to get upset because an ebiker is getting in more laps and degrading the trails then they also have to dislike more people going riding on regular bikes cause that causes more wear on the trails too. It’s hypocritical to dislike increased wear from one group and not dislike it from another.

Posted by: syncro

If people are going to get upset because an ebiker is getting in more laps and degrading the trails then they also have to dislike more people going riding on regular bikes cause that causes more wear on the trails too. It’s hypocritical to dislike increased wear from one group and not dislike it from another.

I hear you breathing son. But being human powered is a great limiter. My point is just that growth with ebikes (or regular bikes) needs some thought. Most trail systems rely heavily on volunteer efforts. If ebikes mean more trail use, maintenance and building needs to be addressed in some way. Overuse of parks like Joffrey and Garibaldi created the need for a permit system. That’s not an unusual thing in the world. I can easily foresee a permit system for parking at first as a way to limit trail use.  Big picture, philosophically I am anti growth. Pro sustainability. This endless economic and population growth is insane.

Posted by: RAHrider

Really? 10 speed MANUAL transmissions? Sure automatic, who cares. 12 speed manual transmission with no clutch and the potential to ruin the transmission if you shift while pushing to many watts? As I have always said, ebikes are some of the crappiest engineered products out there. Cables everywhere. Delicate drivetrains. Too many gears. I digress as I know some people here really like riding them. I'm sure they think my bike with no suspension is equally underengineered.

Just in big trucks are there manual 10 speeds. For cars and light duty trucks no.

Posted by: andy-eunson

My point is just that growth with ebikes (or regular bikes) needs some thought. Most trail systems rely heavily on volunteer efforts. If ebikes mean more trail use, maintenance and building needs to be addressed in some way. Big picture, philosophically I am anti growth. Pro sustainability.

Yup, big picture thinking.  More riders means we need more trails and, more importantly, more people doing trail work. If ebike riders are getting shunned by the greater mtb community then the likelihood of them getting involved with trail maintenance and advocacy is probably pretty low. That doesn't work for anyone in the bigger picture when it looks like ebikes are here to stay and will be a significant part of the trail using public.

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: andy-eunson

My point is just that growth with ebikes (or regular bikes) needs some thought. Most trail systems rely heavily on volunteer efforts. If ebikes mean more trail use, maintenance and building needs to be addressed in some way. Big picture, philosophically I am anti growth. Pro sustainability.

Yup, big picture thinking.  More riders means we need more trails and, more importantly, more people doing trail work. If ebike riders are getting shunned by the greater mtb community then the likelihood of them getting involved with trail maintenance and advocacy is probably pretty low. That doesn't work for anyone in the bigger picture when it looks like ebikes are here to stay and will be a significant part of the trail using public.

I would suspect that the percentage of ebikes being contributing members of local trail organizations is pretty similar to that of regular bikers. Ebikes are here nd not going anywhere. We need to deal with them as the legitimate trail users that they are. That doesn’t mean that I want one. It won’t make my rides any better it will cost more and be more complex to work on and I don’t want that.

I that suppose it's fair to expect 3 x the average trail maintenance/advocacy contribution from ebike riders, since they're wearing down the trails proportionately to the 3 x more trail km's they're riding.

Posted by: mammal

I that suppose it's fair to expect 3 x the average trail maintenance/advocacy contribution from ebike riders, since they're wearing down the trails proportionately to the 3 x more trail km's they're riding.

Do you have any data that shows ebike riders are using the trails 3x times as much and causing  3x as much wear as the average mtb'er? Do you have data that shows that the average mtb'er is contributing an appropriate amount of maintenance based on how much they ride? It seems that you've presented a fairly presumptive argument simply meant to malign ebikers because you don't like them.