Posted by: FLATCH
All Specialized bikes are very overpriced, but that is pretty crazy.
Not all of them, check out the new Status. At $1,000 retail the framesets are literally half the cost of anything comparable.
Yes, the "halo" Specialized stuff is way overpriced but their entry-to-mid level stuff is actually a pretty good value.
Posted by: JohnnyRyall
Posted by: FLATCH
All Specialized bikes are very overpriced, but that is pretty crazy.
Not all of them, check out the new Status. At $1,000 retail the framesets are literally half the cost of anything comparable.
Yes, the "halo" Specialized stuff is way overpriced but their entry-to-mid level stuff is actually a pretty good value.
Now if only they would deign to make available 530mm+ of reach in an S6 for regular bikes.
^that didn't have the same cs length as the S1? the levo is offered in a range of reaches spanning 120mm - all sporting the same chainstay. specialized is doing incredibly advanced work in many areas, that they're still oblivious to addressing front / rear balance - for all sizes - is a bit surprising.
Posted by: xy9ine
^that didn't have the same cs length as the S1? the levo is offered in a range of reaches spanning 120mm - all sporting the same chainstay. specialized is doing incredibly advanced work in many areas, that they're still oblivious to addressing front / rear balance - for all sizes - is a bit surprising.
To be fair it's probably better value/marketing ROI to promote so-called innovation in batteries and motors to well-heeled noobs than something a lot less sexy like bikes actually, you know, fitting people.
Posted by: craw
Posted by: xy9ine
^that didn't have the same cs length as the S1? the levo is offered in a range of reaches spanning 120mm - all sporting the same chainstay. specialized is doing incredibly advanced work in many areas, that they're still oblivious to addressing front / rear balance - for all sizes - is a bit surprising.
To be fair it's probably better value/marketing ROI to promote so-called innovation in batteries and motors to well-heeled noobs than something a lot less sexy like bikes actually, you know, fitting people.
(dorky rant) - if you use the same ratio of chainstay to reach of the s1 & apply that to the s4, joe average would be on 512mm chainstays. extrapolating from the s6, he'd be on 396mm stays. you can have dialed geometry - but only if you ride a medium. and this seems ok for a TWENTY THOUSAND DOLLAR bicycle? it's not hard to accommodate different lengths (relatively) cheaply - ie, via axle flip chips, or just moving things around a bit in the front triangle a la norco. the bike industry - so dumb sometimes.
The next wave is here. There's a couple of DBs on full electric dirtbikes (class 3 ebike throttle twisters) ripping up the trails in Squamish. Looks like 3 inch tires - so perfect for accessing riding trails and ripping the dirt off them. Not electric trials bikes, and not pedelecs.
Been spotted in the Alice Lake Park, district trails and bike paths, private lands where dirt-bikes are prohibited, and on trails recognized by most rational residents as MTB-Trials only based on user-group agreements.
As more of these things are sold without any sort of guidance on their use from the sellers and marketers, it's just going to get messier - and the trails and trail access will suffer the most.
Posted by: cerealkilla_
The next wave is here. There's a couple of DBs on full electric dirtbikes (class 3 ebike throttle twisters) ripping up the trails in Squamish. Looks like 3 inch tires - so perfect for accessing riding trails and ripping the dirt off them. Not electric trials bikes, and not pedelecs.
Been spotted in the Alice Lake Park, district trails and bike paths, private lands where dirt-bikes are prohibited, and on trails recognized by most rational residents as MTB-Trials only based on user-group agreements.
As more of these things are sold without any sort of guidance on their use from the sellers and marketers, it's just going to get messier - and the trails and trail access will suffer the most.
It was inevitable, but most people seem to ignore this since the beginning. Once you put a motor on something you can be sure they will only keep getting stronger and faster. The cyclepaths here are full of e-scooters and e-motorcycles that look like small moto gp bikes and they whizz by quite fast. But since they have pedals, they're "legal".
Since the motors and batteries will keep getting smaller and more integrated, I'm having a hard time figuring out how trail centres will enforce a no-e-motorcycle policy if they can't differentiate them from ebikes. (Because yes, here in Quebec everywhere you ride (90% of the trails) you have to do it at a trail centre and pay a day pass even if there is no shuttle or lift, and they have people patrolling to check tickets and stuff.)
This is not the mountain biking experience I signed up for when I started 25 years ago! 😅 Sorry for the rant!
Posted by: thaaad
dirt·bag
/ˈdərtbaɡ/
nounderogatory•informal
noun: dirtbag; plural noun: dirtbags; noun: dirt-bag; plural noun: dirt-bags
a very unkempt or unpleasant person.
Well, considering how judgemental and unpleasant a lot of people in the MTB community seem to be I would say it still might be a dirtbag sport.
100% agree.
Seems to be getting worse lately with the influx of new riders. Ear buds in, not stopping or slowing for anyone, turbo boost mode cutting cheat lines trying to imitate the latest Instagram shredder.
But I am also seeing it with regular bikes as well. Just general dbag behavior.
I dunno, I am in no hurry, I wait for people all the time going up or down.
Posted by: martin
Posted by: cerealkilla_
The next wave is here. There's a couple of DBs on full electric dirtbikes (class 3 ebike throttle twisters) ripping up the trails in Squamish. Looks like 3 inch tires - so perfect for accessing riding trails and ripping the dirt off them. Not electric trials bikes, and not pedelecs.
Been spotted in the Alice Lake Park, district trails and bike paths, private lands where dirt-bikes are prohibited, and on trails recognized by most rational residents as MTB-Trials only based on user-group agreements.
As more of these things are sold without any sort of guidance on their use from the sellers and marketers, it's just going to get messier - and the trails and trail access will suffer the most.
It was inevitable, but most people seem to ignore this since the beginning. Once you put a motor on something you can be sure they will only keep getting stronger and faster. The cyclepaths here are full of e-scooters and e-motorcycles that look like small moto gp bikes and they whizz by quite fast. But since they have pedals, they're "legal".
Since the motors and batteries will keep getting smaller and more integrated, I'm having a hard time figuring out how trail centres will enforce a no-e-motorcycle policy if they can't differentiate them from ebikes. (Because yes, here in Quebec everywhere you ride (90% of the trails) you have to do it at a trail centre and pay a day pass even if there is no shuttle or lift, and they have people patrolling to check tickets and stuff.)
This is not the mountain biking experience I signed up for when I started 25 years ago! 😅 Sorry for the rant!
Just imagine having a conversation with one of these guys. You already know how it's going to go. Oblivious, entitled and defensive with limited understanding of the level of cooperation between communities required to build and maintain the trails or etiquette on how to use those trails.
Out of curiosity, what brand of class 3 ebikes were they riding and are those available at a local retailer? Would it be reasonable to have new purchasers of these machines sign a waiver or something?
Posted by: craw
Posted by: martin
Posted by: cerealkilla_
The next wave is here. There's a couple of DBs on full electric dirtbikes (class 3 ebike throttle twisters) ripping up the trails in Squamish. Looks like 3 inch tires - so perfect for accessing riding trails and ripping the dirt off them. Not electric trials bikes, and not pedelecs.
Been spotted in the Alice Lake Park, district trails and bike paths, private lands where dirt-bikes are prohibited, and on trails recognized by most rational residents as MTB-Trials only based on user-group agreements.
As more of these things are sold without any sort of guidance on their use from the sellers and marketers, it's just going to get messier - and the trails and trail access will suffer the most.
It was inevitable, but most people seem to ignore this since the beginning. Once you put a motor on something you can be sure they will only keep getting stronger and faster. The cyclepaths here are full of e-scooters and e-motorcycles that look like small moto gp bikes and they whizz by quite fast. But since they have pedals, they're "legal".
Since the motors and batteries will keep getting smaller and more integrated, I'm having a hard time figuring out how trail centres will enforce a no-e-motorcycle policy if they can't differentiate them from ebikes. (Because yes, here in Quebec everywhere you ride (90% of the trails) you have to do it at a trail centre and pay a day pass even if there is no shuttle or lift, and they have people patrolling to check tickets and stuff.)
This is not the mountain biking experience I signed up for when I started 25 years ago! 😅 Sorry for the rant!
Just imagine having a conversation with one of these guys. You already know how it's going to go. Oblivious, entitled and defensive with limited understanding of the level of cooperation between communities required to build and maintain the trails or etiquette on how to use those trails.
Out of curiosity, what brand of class 3 ebikes were they riding and are those available at a local retailer? Would it be reasonable to have new purchasers of these machines sign a waiver or something?
Ya too bad, those guys are on surron's, I am sure they will get educated soon enough on where they should be with those, but also a few trail builders in squamish use Surron's for trail building. They definitely can roost as in stock form they can do 80km/hr and are built to go fast on roads. Those are definitely moto's, not e-mtb's.
They are indeed riding Surrons as Dave points out.
What's worse, is that they have been trying to claim status as trials bikes, even though they lack soft tires at low psi. This has pissed off the trials club greatly. Trials bikes are permitted by Squamish bylaws in (most) areas where MTBs also ride, such as Valleycliff and Cheema Lands. However, user club agreements and district bylaws (where applicable) are against dirtbikes in such areas.
This is a good example of a few selfish riders endangering trail access (and trail integrity) for all
Dave, you potentially have the best opportunity to be an influential and positive spokesperson for responsible eMTB riding. Any ideas how you (or others) might educate these folks (and the others that may likely follow them)?
^ weird choice of definition of Dirtbag
this is what is usually meant by the term
from urban dictionary
"Dirtbag
A person who is committed to a given (usually extreme) lifestyle to the point of abandoning employment and other societal norms in order to pursue said lifestyle. Dirtbags can be distinguished from hippies by the fact that dirtbags have a specific reason for their living communaly and generally non-hygenically; dirtbags are seeking to spend all of their moments pursuing their lifestyle
The best examples of dirtbags and dirtbagging are the communities of climbers that can be found in any of the major climbing areas of North America--Squamish, BC; Yosemite, CA; Joshua Tree, CA; etc."
Yes, by that definition I was a Dirtbag in the 1980s and 1990s, but I don't think anyone around here that pays rent or towards a mortgage classifies as a Dirtbag anymore.
However, if you are couch surfing or have a secret tent site (thinking of you JF and Roberto) to ride the Shore , you may qualify
the previous definition seems to have confused dirtbag with "douche bag"
^^^
Yup
I just grabbed the very first one from Oxford dictionary from Google.
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