You do understand that the "accelerator controller" mentioned in the code is, in fact, the "throttle"? I mean, why would the code make references to an accelerator controller, if an accelerator controller was illegal?
You also understand that those requirements are logical OR functions ... not AND functions?
Right?
I agree the 'accelerator controller' could mean the throttle, but the throttle is not allowed to function without the pedals turning. I guess I should have been more specific.
The way I read that, it says that the motor must turn off or disengage if you stop pedaling. Is that not what 2(a) indicates? 2(a)Operator stops pedaling OR (b)the accelerator controller is released OR (b)the brake is applied.
Again, confusing in how it is written in my opinion. If the (b) parameter is to be a condition, would it not mean that if you released the 'accelerator controller', the motor would have to stop, even if you were still pedaling?
From the language pasted above, I believe KenN is correct. It sounds like it's legal to have a throttle that's within reach of normal seated operating position, that can stop the motor when it's released.
Courts in BC I believe would disagree with KenN.
So would you say that this quote directly from RadPower's website would fall into them being legal or illegal the way the laws are written?
'What about the throttle?
Pedal assist is just the beginning. All of our bikes (U.S. and Canada) include a throttle on the right handlebar that lets you move without pedaling. Our EU spec bikes have a half-grip twist power assist that provides an additional boost while a rider pedals.
When you give it a twist, you will be able to ride your bike without pedaling. This is a great feature if you need to quickly get up to 20 mph or if you've spent the entire day pedaling and just want to give your legs a break.'
https://www.radpowerbikes.com/blogs/the-scenic-route/what-is-pedal-assist
Posted by: Couch_Surfer
Courts in BC I believe would disagree with KenN.
Well that's a shame.
KenN call me if you feel you need to talk buddy.
That's true that the May'20 case may set precedent against the strict wording of the legislation itself. As the judge said, "Motorino XMr does not comply with the intent of the legislation."
Posted by: shoreboy
Posted by: bux-bux
Just so I'm not posting a giant quote. Isn't the law that anything under 50cc doesn't require a motorcycle license? Still requires plates and insurance no? I'm pretty sure I can't take a 50cc minibike/vespa with no plates and insurance and tear around the city in traffic
You are correct, anything 50cc and over requires plates and insurance. Anything under that spec, is not insurable and is therefore deemed illegal to ride on public roads. The exceptions to this are pedal assist e-bikes that do NOT have a throttle and currently the stand up electric scooters are undergoing a 'trial' period in Vancouver and a few other municipalities.
Motorinos, Rad Power Bikes, One-Wheels, SmartWheels, electric skateboards and other variations of these are all illegal on public streets (in Vancouver at least) the way the laws are currently written.
This above link applies to 49cc and under. Which is insurable. I guess they (ICBC and the province ) are trying to sort it out.
Posted by: shoreboy
So would you say that this quote directly from RadPower's website would fall into them being legal or illegal the way the laws are written?
I'd say the quote falls into the bikes being legal under the written legislation, but it would appear that BC Supreme Court precedent now exists that could make them illegal, and should now prompt a revision of that legislation.
Posted by: mammal
Posted by: shoreboy
So would you say that this quote directly from RadPower's website would fall into them being legal or illegal the way the laws are written?
I'd say the quote falls into the bikes being legal under the written legislation, but it would appear that BC Supreme Court precedent now exists that could make them illegal, and should now prompt a revision of that legislation.
Id say the quote falls into the bikes being illegal under the written legislation:
(2)The motors of a motor assisted cycle must turn off or disengage if
(a)the operator stops pedaling
If you are not pedaling, the motor should not be working. Seems fairly clear to me. The fact that so many of us are interpreting it differently means it needs revision.
There is grey area, for sure, but ... the court decision that others are quoting doesn't explicitly rule out a 'throttle', but rather the court (and appeal court) specifically cite the Motorino in question because "it's not designed to be operated primarily by human power". The courts have pointed out that that particular bike weighs 250 lbs and the pedals are ineffective at propelling the bike forward. Courts have pointed out that the pedals are purely cosmetic and clearly intended to circumvent the intent of the legislation. Neither the courts, nor the law as written, explicitly rule out a 'throttle' or 'accelerator controller'.
By comparison, bikes such as the rad power bikes, can be ridden just fine without ever using the provided 'throttle'. In fact, it's easy to disconnect the 'throttle' and it can still be ridden as a pedal assist only ebike.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/e-bikes-motorcycles-b-c-court-decision-1.5928169
In my daily commute, I have yet to see anyone on a RadPower bike not using the throttle. At a stop light, they twist that throttle like it was a motorbike. So yes, it is 'possible' not to use the throttle, but in practice it seems everyone does use it. The fact that you can use the throttle it without having to pedal is what, in my opinion, would make this bike illegal under the current legislation.
Full disclosure ... I have a 2018 Rad City. I used it as a commuter for a couple of years but I don't any more (gonna sell it). I have never used the throttle under any circumstances except to occasionally test that it still works.
The gearing was so low on the stock version that I never used anything lower than 3rd gear and even that was rare (7-speed), so I swapped the cassette and chainring to get higher gear ratios. At least I could get some use out of 2nd and not spin out in 7th. First gear is still pretty much hamster wheel territory.
https://super73.com/collections/all-bikes/products/super73-rx?variant=31858721783890
So if I read ICBC site correctly, the Super73 are classified as limited speed motorcycles?
But it only does 20mph according to website (probably to try and be classified as a bike?). So might as well get a chip that lets it go 70kph on throttle and get rid of pedal mode.
Well, it has a 750 watt rated motor that goes to 1200 watts peak power, so that's an issue.
But you do bring up a key point ... ebikes are super easy to mod for more power and higher speeds, so whatever gets sold to a consumer can be upgraded and it's pretty much impossible to see the changes. Makes things like speed and power limits almost impossible to enforce beyond point of sale in any meaningful way.
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