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Rage, chaos and crashes are ignored realities of life in the biking mecca.

June 16, 2022, 10:43 a.m.
Posts: 450
Joined: June 17, 2016

Posted by: SixZeroSixOne

Posted by: heckler

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/rcmp-investigation-cycling-crash-kamloops-1.6488875

slow down, or it'll be your fault.

I actually kind of agree with this one.  I can see speeding down a long hill in the loops and surprising a driver turning across the bike lane, when there was no bike, suddenly one there.

Hmmm, very little real detail to be able to draw any conclusion as the cyclists speed hasn't been reported ie was he going significantly faster than other traffic?

I bet the speed limit for the road isn't 20kmh so the fact that he may have been on the right side of that concrete barrier (ie on the cycle path) shouldn't excuse the truck driver from looking properly before turning...

(Of course, if the rider was doing 70kmh and the road speed limit was only 50kmh, then I'd be inclined to cut the driver some slack...)

Indeed not much detail in the article about the situation and (AFAICS) no picture of the actual location where the accident happened.

Fully integrating cycling into infrastructure planning and design is the best way to prevent this kind of accident. From the pictures that cycling path looks like it was literally added as an afterthought. I see this all the time here, cycling paths are being added but no thought is given at all to the points where cyclists and vehicles interact. Even with separated cycling paths, there will still be turn-offs where vehicles will have to cross the cycling path. There are all kinds of measures you can incorporate in a design that help to warn and slow down both the vehicles and the cyclists. This kind of stuff has been figured out for decades already, city planners just need to look at how it's done in countries where cyclists are treated as primary road users.

Of course, even then, accidents can happen and cyclists must ride defensively. Always assume drivers can't see you unless you've made eye contact.

June 16, 2022, 4:11 p.m.
Posts: 1741
Joined: July 11, 2014

From reading a reddit thread, it's a separated bike lane but due to a construction site, dump/water trucks are turning right off the road and crossing the multi-use/bike path. IMO construction company should've had to pay a flagger to be at the crossing during operating hours as a cost to their benefit of having the most efficient site access location.

20km/h speed limit on a 7% grade descent is ridiculous for bikes.

Aug. 12, 2022, 10:52 p.m.
Posts: 3
Joined: July 31, 2022

Posted by: heckler

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/rcmp-investigation-cycling-crash-kamloops-1.6488875

slow down, or it'll be your fault.

I actually kind of agree with this one.  I can see speeding down a long hill in the loops and surprising a driver turning across the bike lane, when there was no bike, suddenly one there.

+1. When I am biking or even more when I am running, there or lots of ways for me to simply do what I am allowed to do and wind up surprising vehicles. It is incumbant of everyone to use some brain power.

Aug. 14, 2022, 8:07 a.m.
Posts: 1413
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by: niels@nsmb.com

Posted by: SixZeroSixOne

Posted by: heckler

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/rcmp-investigation-cycling-crash-kamloops-1.6488875

slow down, or it'll be your fault.

I actually kind of agree with this one.  I can see speeding down a long hill in the loops and surprising a driver turning across the bike lane, when there was no bike, suddenly one there.

Hmmm, very little real detail to be able to draw any conclusion as the cyclists speed hasn't been reported ie was he going significantly faster than other traffic?

I bet the speed limit for the road isn't 20kmh so the fact that he may have been on the right side of that concrete barrier (ie on the cycle path) shouldn't excuse the truck driver from looking properly before turning...

(Of course, if the rider was doing 70kmh and the road speed limit was only 50kmh, then I'd be inclined to cut the driver some slack...)

Indeed not much detail in the article about the situation and (AFAICS) no picture of the actual location where the accident happened.

Fully integrating cycling into infrastructure planning and design is the best way to prevent this kind of accident. From the pictures that cycling path looks like it was literally added as an afterthought. I see this all the time here, cycling paths are being added but no thought is given at all to the points where cyclists and vehicles interact. Even with separated cycling paths, there will still be turn-offs where vehicles will have to cross the cycling path. There are all kinds of measures you can incorporate in a design that help to warn and slow down both the vehicles and the cyclists. This kind of stuff has been figured out for decades already, city planners just need to look at how it's done in countries where cyclists are treated as primary road users.

Of course, even then, accidents can happen and cyclists must ride defensively. Always assume drivers can't see you unless you've made eye contact.

Totally agree but even when bikes are included into design they can still get it wrong. I’ve been running a job at UBC for the last few months. Wesbrook Mall rehab focused on bike/pedestrian upgrades. Seems to me to be a flaw in design in many areas, especially at the intersection of Wesbrook and Chancellor. Design has pedestrians and bikes crossing paths in several spots and seems like a recipe for collisions. From what I’ve witnessed so far is that all three user groups in this area seem very entitled and this should be interesting when we are done.

Aug. 16, 2022, 8:46 p.m.
Posts: 59
Joined: Aug. 6, 2004

Posted by: FLATCH

Totally agree but even when bikes are included into design they can still get it wrong. I’ve been running a job at UBC for the last few months. Wesbrook Mall rehab focused on bike/pedestrian upgrades. Seems to me to be a flaw in design in many areas, especially at the intersection of Wesbrook and Chancellor. Design has pedestrians and bikes crossing paths in several spots and seems like a recipe for collisions. From what I’ve witnessed so far is that all three user groups in this area seem very entitled and this should be interesting when we are done.

Been riding through this new "upgrade" work from the start. I have no idea how they are planning to put the old bike lane back in place going west. The sidewalk does this inverted round-about and creates a major pinch point. Are they planning on bikes using the new very large circle sidewalk?

Aug. 17, 2022, 6:50 a.m.
Posts: 1463
Joined: Sept. 10, 2012

Around here the expect bikes [based on signage] to take the sidewalk on roundabouts and then get back in a bikelane. I just ignore that and take the lane on the road since traffic slows/stops. Either way is awkward.

Aug. 21, 2022, 8:17 a.m.
Posts: 1413
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by: Silk

Posted by: FLATCH

Totally agree but even when bikes are included into design they can still get it wrong. I’ve been running a job at UBC for the last few months. Wesbrook Mall rehab focused on bike/pedestrian upgrades. Seems to me to be a flaw in design in many areas, especially at the intersection of Wesbrook and Chancellor. Design has pedestrians and bikes crossing paths in several spots and seems like a recipe for collisions. From what I’ve witnessed so far is that all three user groups in this area seem very entitled and this should be interesting when we are done.

Been riding through this new "upgrade" work from the start. I have no idea how they are planning to put the old bike lane back in place going west. The sidewalk does this inverted round-about and creates a major pinch point. Are they planning on bikes using the new very large circle sidewalk?

Yes. Yikes. Pedestrian conflicts and confusion will rule.

Aug. 22, 2022, 5:05 p.m.
Posts: 2467
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: FLATCH

Posted by: Silk

Posted by: FLATCH

Totally agree but even when bikes are included into design they can still get it wrong. I’ve been running a job at UBC for the last few months. Wesbrook Mall rehab focused on bike/pedestrian upgrades. Seems to me to be a flaw in design in many areas, especially at the intersection of Wesbrook and Chancellor. Design has pedestrians and bikes crossing paths in several spots and seems like a recipe for collisions. From what I’ve witnessed so far is that all three user groups in this area seem very entitled and this should be interesting when we are done.

Been riding through this new "upgrade" work from the start. I have no idea how they are planning to put the old bike lane back in place going west. The sidewalk does this inverted round-about and creates a major pinch point. Are they planning on bikes using the new very large circle sidewalk?

Yes. Yikes. Pedestrian conflicts and confusion will rule.

I see stuff like this and the first thought  that comes to mind is if the engineers on the project have any significant real world experience riding bicycles in urban settings with plenty of traffic and pedestrians around. Based on what I see the answer is usually no.

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