I hated those stupid little circles.
They're the main reason I would always ride down Broadway every day to work and opt out of the messiness of 10th and 8th.
I remember them being referred to as "traffic calming" circles so I think they're job is to be so annoying that they make people choose main arteries over attempting to zip dangerously down side streets. Unfortunately a lot of people still don't do that.
Actually that bit about cyclists hitting the islands is pretty pathetic. What the hell does it say when people are too incompetent to even ride a bike?
well like i said, it doesn't surprise me. people are stupid.
when you considering there's increasing evidence that in the next generation or two our home the earth could become inhabitable for humans due to our own ignorance and stupidity watching peons fail in trying to naviagate something as simple as a traffic circle should come as no surprise.
We don't know what our limits are, so to start something with the idea of being limited actually ends up limiting us.
Ellen Langer
Did you see the story in the Province today about the woman in Australia?
fell off a pier because she was checking Facebook on her phone. She couldn't swim but when the rescue people got to her she was holding the phone up to protect it.
I despair.
lol - that actually made me laugh.
We don't know what our limits are, so to start something with the idea of being limited actually ends up limiting us.
Ellen Langer
I'd be interested in seeing the data behind the traffic circles over, say, a two-way or four-way stop sign.
Yes it would, particulary since many peeps are apply the right-of-way rule to traffic circles.
tain't so,…..first in takes all. Which kinda' turns it into a race in which the cyclist always loses.
Freedom of contract. We sell them guns that kill them; they sell us drugs that kill us.
Yes it would, particulary since many peeps are apply the right-of-way rule to traffic circles.
tain't so,…..first in takes all. Which kinda' turns it into a race in which the cyclist always loses.
One thing many drivers and riders don't understand is how does one define or determine who gets in to a circle or four stop first? Put another way, if I get to a four way or circle only a half second before the person to my right, do I have right of way? No. I always understood the rule to be if neither party stopped and would collide that equals same time. If I am fully stopped but the person on the right has not, I am first and can go. Traffic circles of course have no stop bar and you don't need to stop unless there's a pedestrian.
Debate? Bikes are made for riding not pushing.
I think the benefits of traffic circles usually outweigh the negatives.
OP says it happened near 1st and Yew (but I doubt it since I don't even think there is a traffic circle there-it was probably Arbutus). Yew is very steep there. Traffic circles don't work well at grade changes since visibility sucks as you come uphill towards the traffic circle. CoV actually installed a traffic circle at Pine and 10th and then ripped it out.
Yes it would, particulary since many peeps are apply the right-of-way rule to traffic circles.
tain't so,…..first in takes all. Which kinda' turns it into a race in which the cyclist always loses.
There are right of way rules that apply when ppl arrive at the same time. Goes to the person on the right. Good luck finding anyone who knows that however…
I think the benefits of traffic circles usually outweigh the negatives.
OP says it happened near 1st and Yew (but I doubt it since I don't even think there is a traffic circle there-it was probably Arbutus). Yew is very steep there. Traffic circles don't work well at grade changes since visibility sucks as you come uphill towards the traffic circle. CoV actually installed a traffic circle at Pine and 10th and then ripped it out.
Might well have been Arbutus and 1st or maybe even 2nd. I rarely ride or drive there and being a man, I navigate by landmarks, not street names. I think the steepness was a factor as you point out. The little car had a couple passengers and was going uphill and line of site at that intersection is lacking.
Debate? Bikes are made for riding not pushing.
the biggest problem with the traffic circles in this city and in particular on the cycling routes is the sightlines - they're fucking horrible (fucking for necessary empahsis)
- you have narrow streets to start with
- the circles have signage and fooilage in them at eye level making it a bit difficult to see what's on the other side
- the properties on the corners typically have shrubs and/or trees right at the edge of the lots, sometimes overhanging the streetconsider that the pic below is taken from the rooftop of a google car and that on a bike or in a car your sightline would be lower and inevitably worse.
And yet all of Europe seems to manage fine.
One thing many drivers and riders don't understand is how does one define or determine who gets in to a circle or four stop first? Put another way, if I get to a four way or circle only a half second before the person to my right, do I have right of way? No. I always understood the rule to be if neither party stopped and would collide that equals same time. If I am fully stopped but the person on the right has not, I am first and can go. Traffic circles of course have no stop bar and you don't need to stop unless there's a pedestrian.
Part of this is because the application of the rules in Europe would differ from the North American treatment of a four way. In Europe, on the right hand drive roads, if everyone arrives at the same time you give way to the left. This makes sense because if I don't give way to the dude on the left, he is further into the circle by the time we collide. In North America, because of the four way rules, it is the right which means that I am further into the circle when we collide. It's counter-intuitive to the system.
Also, just going to leave this Myth Busters test here:
http://www.wimp.com/testroundabout/
And yet all of Europe seems to manage fine.
true, but we're not in europe. i think a lot of your point has to do with traffic circles being far more common in europe unlike NA.
We don't know what our limits are, so to start something with the idea of being limited actually ends up limiting us.
Ellen Langer
Last year I had a car pass me in traffic circle in New West.
true, but we're not in europe. i think a lot of your point has to do with traffic circles being far more common in europe unlike NA.
Slightly nuanced, but yes. My point is more the issue is people having no idea how to drive through them and the implementation in Canada not helping.
Part of this is because the application of the rules in Europe would differ from the North American treatment of a four way. In Europe, on the right hand drive roads, if everyone arrives at the same time you give way to the left. This makes sense because if I don't give way to the dude on the left, he is further into the circle by the time we collide. In North America, because of the four way rules, it is the right which means that I am further into the circle when we collide. It's counter-intuitive to the system.
To be honest, I wouldnt consider them traffic circles at all. Traffic circles usually have multiple lanes. They are just uncontrolled intersections with a stupid circle of concrete in the middle. I think they would even be safer if they were just uncontrolled without the circle in the middle…
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