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The Mossoleum: Fresh Tracks in Squamish

Dec. 5, 2012, 7:14 p.m.
Posts: 133
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

It's more a conversation type thing. In the BB format I can come on here and see new comments quickly in one place. If I have to go back to the main page and then click on the story, and then scroll to the bottom to see if there are new comments, I'll tell you right now, I probably won't be participating in those story comments because it's a lot of extra effort navigating back and forth to see if there are even new comments. It's not very efficient as a participant, and therefore I'll probably end up not participating in the comments of the stories.

Dec. 5, 2012, 7:40 p.m.
Posts: 2264
Joined: Nov. 22, 2002

understood. and to that end i have to say morgan been doing a great job and has definitely breathed a lot of new life into the frontpage of the site with all the article work.

We think so, too. Thanks for the props to him.

It's more a conversation type thing. In the BB format I can come on here and see new comments quickly in one place. If I have to go back to the main page and then click on the story, and then scroll to the bottom to see if there are new comments, I'll tell you right now, I probably won't be participating in those story comments because it's a lot of extra effort navigating back and forth to see if there are even new comments. It's not very efficient as a participant, and therefore I'll probably end up not participating in the comments of the stories.

You'll have to scroll to the bottom of one page of comments vs. remembering which page you were on in the case of a BB thread? I think it's a wash in terms of effort. On the second part, as has been mentioned, I do agree with you, however it's a casualty of this system. It's also the way almost all article comments are handled in sites we all use all over the internet. I'm not using that as a cop out, btw, I'm just saying it isn't exactly a unique issue.

Dec. 5, 2012, 8:51 p.m.
Posts: 133
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

You'll have to scroll to the bottom of one page of comments vs. remembering which page you were on in the case of a BB thread? I think it's a wash in terms of effort. On the second part, as has been mentioned, I do agree with you, however it's a casualty of this system. It's also the way almost all article comments are handled in sites we all use all over the internet. I'm not using that as a cop out, btw, I'm just saying it isn't exactly a unique issue.

not really, I click on the articles forum and it shows me which threads have new posts. The other way I have to go to the main page and specifically go back through old stories to see if there have been new comments or replies, even if there hasn't been…..I get what you're saying, maybe I'm being picky, but I know I probably won't make that effort. I find that while I'll scan through the comments on PB articles once when I read the article, I very rarely participate because I just never go back to an article again, once I've read it I'm done with it. While I can appreciate the extra effort it takes to start a thread on here, I think generally speaking it's easier to participate in conversations in the forum format because it's easy to see what has new action and what doesn't. It's all in one place. Totally understand it's not a cop out, just saying that personally I'm less likely to actively participate in conversations within a story rather than in the forum format do to ease of use from my end. I actually thought the system was working pretty well the past while, people who didn't use the forums could comment, but it all showed up here, seemed like a good hybrid, from my outside perspective anyway, not at all taking into considering backend programming type stuff of course! :) whatever, just make morg work harder, that dude is such a slacker! hahaha

anyway, thanks for letting us sound off regardless, don't take it personally or anything, just rambling, keep up the good work!

Dec. 5, 2012, 9:56 p.m.
Posts: 1885
Joined: Oct. 16, 2005

It's more a conversation type thing. In the BB format I can come on here and see new comments quickly in one place. If I have to go back to the main page and then click on the story, and then scroll to the bottom to see if there are new comments, I'll tell you right now, I probably won't be participating in those story comments because it's a lot of extra effort navigating back and forth to see if there are even new comments. It's not very efficient as a participant, and therefore I'll probably end up not participating in the comments of the stories.

I recently put forward a similar(but much less succicently stated) version of this thought to Morgan…

His very friendly non-answer was something along the lines of:

"We are wirling and twirling and always moving forwards and never looking backwards and check out my wicked beard… have you seen my awesome dog? He's a Duck Toll-er… it's an awesome source of passive income as long as you live somewhere marshy… Cool huh? Do you remember what we were talking about? Perfect! So bicycles are great…"

The business of NSMB's business (and it is a business, relying on advert revenue) is none of my business, so I put it aside until I noticed this posting by CraigH:

Stats…

Which got me thinking about the current momentum at NSMB.com:

A)

On the one hand NSMB.com's original materials used to be posted semi-regularly and were largely driven by BB users (Reader's Rides, Bros Not Pros, Gear Reviews, Local Events, Coverage of North Shore trail advocacy) this content was mixed with a bunch of reguritated industry goings on and pseudo reviews (this just in… Specialized's products still rock and Norco is still selling Taiwanese catalogue bikes locally in Port Coquitlam)

Now, thanks to Morgan's efforts, they have regularly posted -original- content generated in-house, whether the writings of Morgan, or Seb Kemp, or the amazing visual work of Matt Dennison (not to mention that Specialized's products still rock and Norco is now designing bikes locally in Port Coquitlam).

That's not to mention the very impressive freelance material created (not exclusively for NSMB) by the likes of Dan Barham, or the Ultramontaine crowd.

B)

On the other hand… the two forums that I most often frequent (Gear and The Shore… I know that NBR is an inclusive, intelligent, friendly conversation) have (in my opinion) degenerated significantly from their previous iterations…

Not specifically refering to a generally more negative tone (not that there weren't some winning rants) over the years (my post history certainly has its share of malificence, so this isn't intended as throwing stones from my glass house) I would say (anecdotally) that there are a smaller number of people generating most of the content (which is crazy since the number of active users in the sport has grown substantially since NSMB was started, not to mention their much more global audience now) and the quality of the content (from threads about wheel building, suspension tuning, rebuilding components, what's new and cool to… well look for yourself) has decreased as well.

In fact, lately it seems like you could sum all of The Shore and the Gear forum into three threads:

1) Why the wheel size (and or suspension travel) of the bike I own or will own (26"/27"/28") is best for me (alt: is best for everyone / alt: is the only one that isn't just marketing / alt: shows that I'm a better rider / alt: demonstrates my manhood / alt: is "more fun")

2) An angst ridden (written) trail building circle jerk between Mark, Jerry, Mark, and whatever-Hardtack-'s-real-name-is that soils any postive mention of the huge amount of work (past and present and future) they all have/are/will putting in to trail maintenace, not to mention the great works of the NSMBA at catching up on years of simply not having enough hands working efficiently, not to mention Dan Barham's attempt at involving the community in his latest project.

3) Why my local bike shop sucks and I buy everything on the internet.

In that light (and it is just my opinion), I would be trying to generate article postings (and online media sharing on twitter and facebook) off of the significant number of people viewing articles, but not posting, on the main page as opposed to the limited number of people posting in the bulletin board (even if it meant less involvement from the current BB posters)

Assuming the new comment format has that result.

-D

Mean People SUCK! Nice People SHOVEL!

Trails For All; Trails For Weather

Dec. 5, 2012, 10:51 p.m.
Posts: 2264
Joined: Nov. 22, 2002

Flip (Todd), we appreciate it and certainly don't take it personally. Thanks for the input as always.

Drew…wow. Just…actually, just more of that, please. Despite your self-deprecating tone, most of your ranting was sniffing at bull's eyes.

Dec. 5, 2012, 11:07 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: June 6, 2012

trailfairy agrees with Drew that the forums need an enema. Grumps being grumps to other grumps and saying the same thing again and again. Grumps need to be more lighthearted fairies

Lee Lau

Dec. 6, 2012, 12:32 a.m.
Posts: 1
Joined: Sept. 20, 2006

This thread needs more roots. And steep chundery bits.

Dec. 6, 2012, 5:33 a.m.
Posts: 15438
Joined: May 29, 2004

This thread needs more roots. And steep chundery bits.

Hear Hear!!!!

….and ftr, DrewM Im gonna stay out of the TAP debate? from here on in. It's Mark and Jerry's sandbox now.

oh, and I like the new format,do not care if articles are linked to the forum and Squish has never looked so good!

Dec. 6, 2012, 9:50 a.m.
Posts: 5738
Joined: May 28, 2005

i see both pete and flip's points with regards to the comments/discussion issue. i haven't thought through it a great deal, but i feel like it would be great if comments at the bottom of the article and the board discussion could somehow just be views of the same thing. however, as someone who occasionally has to administer a webiste, i know that this may not be possible to set up or realistic to administer. if they're two separate threads, one for people to comment and the other for discussions on matters arising, that would be fine, too. it would be a shame to have no discussion on articles, as sometimes they can spur interesting and lively conversations and debates (admitedly within a relatively small group), but i know its an extra and perhaps not very rewarding task for the admins to create a thread after putting up the article, and takes traffic away from the front page (guilty!)… i suppose if someone on the bb really needs to discuss/debate/expound on an article, they can simply start their own thread in the appropriate place.

oh and i totally :heart: the new large picture format option!

"Nobody really gives a shit that you don't like the thing that you have no firsthand experience with." Dave

Dec. 6, 2012, 10:04 a.m.
Posts: 8935
Joined: Dec. 23, 2005

What Flip said.

Via the bb I can see when there are new posts, and I can subscribe to threads so I get notifications and not have to actually go and check.

Personally I find the forum method better for discussion. Most every site that I read articles on I don't post in the comments. If I want to discuss that article I copy a link to it and post a thread on here (or TGR/MTBR/vSalon depending on audience).

Can you put a link on the top of the article that jumps straight to the comments. A personal pet peeve is scrolling all the way past the article I've already read to follow up on comments.

Dec. 6, 2012, 10:08 a.m.
Posts: 4837
Joined: Nov. 25, 2002

new format makes sense. generate more front page traffic / (hopefully) draw fresh blood into the commentary fold (god knows we can use it, the stagnant incestuous cesspool that we are). everyone else (that matters) uses this format, and it works well; the trailing article discussion thread is often more entertaining than the content itself.

and: some great shots.

Dec. 6, 2012, 12:15 p.m.
Posts: 2264
Joined: Nov. 22, 2002

Just want to thank everyone for their comments. We're experimenting and looking at a few different options. In short, we are listening. That isn't a promise of any kind, just an acknowledgement.

As you were.

Dec. 6, 2012, 3:15 p.m.
Posts: 955
Joined: Oct. 23, 2006

….

Dec. 12, 2012, 9:12 a.m.
Posts: 115
Joined: April 23, 2007

…generate more front page traffic / (hopefully) draw fresh blood into the commentary fold (god knows we can use it, the stagnant incestuous cesspool that we are). everyone else (that matters) uses this format, and it works well; the trailing article discussion thread is often more entertaining than the content itself…

I always considered this site a little boys club, but stagnant incestuous cesspool works too.

Dec. 12, 2012, 10:09 a.m.
Posts: 3518
Joined: May 27, 2008

not really, I click on the articles forum and it shows me which threads have new posts. The other way I have to go to the main page and specifically go back through old stories to see if there have been new comments or replies, even if there hasn't been…..I get what you're saying, maybe I'm being picky, but I know I probably won't make that effort. I find that while I'll scan through the comments on PB articles once when I read the article, I very rarely participate because I just never go back to an article again, once I've read it I'm done with it. While I can appreciate the extra effort it takes to start a thread on here, I think generally speaking it's easier to participate in conversations in the forum format because it's easy to see what has new action and what doesn't. It's all in one place. Totally understand it's not a cop out, just saying that personally I'm less likely to actively participate in conversations within a story rather than in the forum format do to ease of use from my end. I actually thought the system was working pretty well the past while, people who didn't use the forums could comment, but it all showed up here, seemed like a good hybrid, from my outside perspective anyway, not at all taking into considering backend programming type stuff of course! :) whatever, just make morg work harder, that dude is such a slacker! hahaha

anyway, thanks for letting us sound off regardless, don't take it personally or anything, just rambling, keep up the good work!

This is pretty much my experience. I don't visit the main page, I go to the BB and click the new posts button. That's how I follow up on what's going on.

Being cheap is OK. Being a clueless sanctimonious condescending douchebag is just Vlad's MO.

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