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MEATengines 2022...

April 10, 2022, 9:54 a.m.
Posts: 965
Joined: March 16, 2017

Posted by: AndrewMajor

Thats not how I think. For me it’s ‘One More Rigid #1FG MTB.’ Or ‘Min-Max’ or ‘Buy The Bike You Already Own.’

The culture conversation now is MB-1. It’s what do you ‘need’ to have fun riding in your local forests under your own steam (that may be a 7”+ Freeduro bike) and it’s reflecting the joy of accomplishing something yourself. 

If it wasn’t for the amount of time I spend thinking about how to both work in a shop and not interact with the machines I think I could even heed my own advice and just focus on what’s awesome about RIY bikes. MEATengines.

You might want to create a chart of the new acronyms and such.

April 10, 2022, 9:59 a.m.
Posts: 965
Joined: March 16, 2017

Posted by: AndrewMajor

Posted by: HulaOtter

Bumped into “North Shore Betty” on Cypress last week as she was finishing her ride. She mentioned encountering a young guy on an E-bike as she was pedalling up BLT to Fifth Horseman. 

As he motored past he asked “When are you going to get an E-bike?” 

She replied “I’m only 73. I’ll wait until I’m older”.

Inspirational lady: https://www.patagonia.ca/stories/north-shore-betty/story-119987.html

Betty is rad. That was a very well crafted piece too. Thanks for sharing!

Andrew, just reminds me of an observation someone made long ago to me, can't recall who. But it was the fact that out there in the world in the various sports exist athletes who are just happy doing their own thing. Who could if wanted race and do well but are happy just doing their own challenges. Whether that be the most descents of a certain trail in a year to the most summits of a certain peak by bike.

April 11, 2022, 5:05 a.m.
Posts: 26
Joined: Aug. 5, 2017

Posted by: HulaOtter

Bumped into “North Shore Betty” on Cypress last week as she was finishing her ride. She mentioned encountering a young guy on an E-bike as she was pedalling up BLT to Fifth Horseman. 

As he motored past he asked “When are you going to get an E-bike?” 

She replied “I’m only 73. I’ll wait until I’m older”.

Inspirational lady: https://www.patagonia.ca/stories/north-shore-betty/story-119987.html

Thanks for that reference and link, amazing lady, really does help show you what you can still be doing if you have the right mentality and keep active. Turning 53 this year and I honestly don't "feel" old, well I feel aged, but that mostly from the knee, but not at what I'd ride or try to ride, hoping I get the knee properly sorted and can still be riding if I make it that far like Betty.

April 11, 2022, 9:43 a.m.
Posts: 13216
Joined: Nov. 24, 2002

Posted by: trumpstinyhands

That was a great read. We need "Be Like Betty" stickers too.

Ride like Betty.

And even though I am on a different land mass, I agree.

And trust me, over here in Western Europe e-bikes are everywhere, cargo bikes (which have a right of existence) ...and tons of emtbs with people who can barely keep that thing under control.

Edit/

What an inspirational piece, so, so goood. I remember a few years back, I was in my mid 40s, a few younger riders at a bikepark told me to "jump myself young gain" after I had declined the offer to practise into an airbag. I accepted, had a blast and I hope I have a few decades left. Some big stuff is still on my list....


 Last edited by: Mic on April 11, 2022, 9:57 a.m., edited 2 times in total.
April 11, 2022, 10 a.m.
Posts: 13216
Joined: Nov. 24, 2002

Posted by: Endurimil

Posted by: AndrewMajor

Posted by: HulaOtter

Bumped into “North Shore Betty” on Cypress last week as she was finishing her ride. She mentioned encountering a young guy on an E-bike as she was pedalling up BLT to Fifth Horseman. 

As he motored past he asked “When are you going to get an E-bike?” 

She replied “I’m only 73. I’ll wait until I’m older”.

Inspirational lady: https://www.patagonia.ca/stories/north-shore-betty/story-119987.html

Betty is rad. That was a very well crafted piece too. Thanks for sharing!

Andrew, just reminds me of an observation someone made long ago to me, can't recall who. But it was the fact that out there in the world in the various sports exist athletes who are just happy doing their own thing. Who could if wanted race and do well but are happy just doing their own challenges. Whether that be the most descents of a certain trail in a year to the most summits of a certain peak by bike.

Yes, there are some serious rippers out there. Whether djing, riding trails or building stuff, the mount of rad riders is amazing. And beautiful to watch too, with the added bonus that most of the times these riders are nice people as well.

April 11, 2022, 9:21 p.m.
Posts: 19
Joined: Aug. 4, 2020

What a great article. Thanks for sharing!

April 13, 2022, 1:01 a.m.
Posts: 1090
Joined: Aug. 13, 2017

Andrew, one thought I had on the Starling Fallacy is that some people gravitate towards smaller independent brands that aren't propped up by big corporates.  Similar in a way to independent record labels verses major record labels - I'm thinking something like Dischord - if you want integrity you can't do much better than Ian Mackaye....  Similar in a way with Chromag - you know what you're getting and it's gonna take a beating.

For me I like the "connection" with smaller brands - I can drop Joe (Starling) an email and generally get a response.  

Maybe it's this "connection" / tribalism that create the rabid fanboydom?

Maybe it's a distrust of men in suits (I definitely suffer from this)

April 13, 2022, 5:39 a.m.
Posts: 1090
Joined: Aug. 13, 2017

More thinking on tribalism - one that I don't understand (living in the UK for now 22 years as an ex pat Kiwi) is football and the near religious following of.  People talk about their teams as "we" albeit the team is made up of generally foreign players with a generally foreign coach who have no allegiance to the club or area where the club is based (their allegiance is based on the hundreds of thousands of £s they make each week).  Anyone who does not support their team is an outsider - not to mention rival local teams.

At least with bikes there are people who work at the company and are passionate about bikes in general and the products they make.  I don't think we have it so bad.  I'm not going to start hating in Specialized or Santa Cruz owners (2 random examples) in the carpark or on the trails.

April 13, 2022, 6:54 a.m.
Posts: 772
Joined: Feb. 28, 2017

Posted by: fartymarty

More thinking on tribalism - one that I don't understand (living in the UK for now 22 years as an ex pat Kiwi) is football and the near religious following of. People talk about their teams as "we" albeit the team is made up of generally foreign players with a generally foreign coach who have no allegiance to the club or area where the club is based (their allegiance is based on the hundreds of thousands of £s they make each week). Anyone who does not support their team is an outsider - not to mention rival local teams.

At least with bikes there are people who work at the company and are passionate about bikes in general and the products they make. I don't think we have it so bad. I'm not going to start hating in Specialized or Santa Cruz owners (2 random examples) in the carpark or on the trails.

Football Hooliganism is its own activity. It dates back to at least the late 18th century, so I’d say they’ve had a head start.

I think it’s an apt comparison though if we move beyond the ‘Starling’ Fallacy, which is specifically talking about a suspension design to bike brand fanboys in general.

I don't frequent the MTBR forums but even so I’ve see some amazing examples of fanboys being incredibly shitty to other owners of a brands’ bikes over things like legitimate frame alignment issues, failures from obvious manufacturing issues, incredibly shitty customer service, or total lack of customer service, you name it. And if I’ve come across all that, I can’t imagine how much of it there must actually be.

And here’s the thing. Most these brands do not manufacture their own frames. Some don’t even design their own frames. Some that do design their own frames have such obvious oversights to water ingress, ease of service, or such obvious cost cutting choices that I almost feel like I’m being trolled (on the internet or in real life) when I talk to fans of the bikes.

Is it just that spending that much money on a toy you ride in the forest requires a justification beyond what’s on paper? You’re not just buying a bike, you’re buying a religion?

———

I’ve read some pretty shitty things about myself on the internet excusing Starling from their plagiarism. What is that other than toxic fanboy behaviour? As you demonstrate, you can be really passionate about something and recognize that people and product aren’t perfect. As with your soccer example, that doesn’t reflect on Joe (seems nice) or Starling. The fanboyism is a separate activity from the mountain biking and a separate organization (loose) from the manufacturer.

I’m totally onboard on connecting with people who make products you love. But here’s a great example. It’s totally cool to think Paul (Paul components) is an awesome dude, who makes awesome parts, and loves his awesome staff, and owns an awesome dune buggy. Great. When you go out and aggressively rail against people who have the nerve to think cable actuated disc brakes (specifically Paul brakes) aren’t as good as hydraulic systems for aggressive mountain biking applications then you’ve lost the plot. And it’s crazy how aggressive some folks get about ‘their’ bicycle brands when they lose the plot.


 Last edited by: AndrewMajor on April 13, 2022, 7:12 a.m., edited 5 times in total.
April 13, 2022, 8:40 a.m.
Posts: 1090
Joined: Aug. 13, 2017

The internet does have the ability to turn some people into assholes.  As wonderful as it is I miss the simplicity of the 80s / 90s.

April 13, 2022, 9:16 a.m.
Posts: 576
Joined: April 15, 2017

Betty's story reminds me of Wendy Worrel Page, another incredible person doing what they love and that's all.
There was an excellent article in "The Surfer's Journal"  which is the only other 'lifestyle/sporting' thing I read with any regularity. It has an very high standard of writing and photography - you could not be into surfing at all and still be fascinated with the writing.
On a MEAT note, looking forwards to getting me endlessbikes cog in the post soon.

April 13, 2022, 9:22 a.m.
Posts: 965
Joined: March 16, 2017

Posted by: AndrewMajor

You’re not just buying a bike, you’re buying a religion?

Funny you mention that. My mother in law was a very religious lady. Prayed every morning and church multiple times a day and so on. Yet when other family members tried to give me grief that I didn't go to church and so on she said I did. As she would point out I was in the woods riding bikes and that was good enough.

April 13, 2022, 10:59 a.m.
Posts: 772
Joined: Feb. 28, 2017

Posted by: fartymarty

The internet does have the ability to turn some people into assholes. As wonderful as it is I miss the simplicity of the 80s / 90s.

Not to make a habit of quoting myself but...

Posted by: AndrewMajor

I tend toward the belief that the internet is like alcohol, if you want to know who someone really is feed them iced-cold tequila shots or give them a keyboard.

April 13, 2022, 11:07 a.m.
Posts: 772
Joined: Feb. 28, 2017

Posted by: Endurimil

Posted by: AndrewMajor

You’re not just buying a bike, you’re buying a religion?

Funny you mention that. My mother in law was a very religious lady. Prayed every morning and church multiple times a day and so on. Yet when other family members tried to give me grief that I didn't go to church and so on she said I did. As she would point out I was in the woods riding bikes and that was good enough.

'Dirt Church' or 'The Church Of Rolling Mass' or whatever you want to call it is a real thing for a lot of people, myself included. There's magic in the forest that humans have been trying to explain since time began. I don't try to explain it, I just accept it.

------

But, in this case, I'm definitely talking about the insidious ways that (some) organized religion causes people to defend as gospel easily disproven facts and to attack people for having different experiences.


 Last edited by: AndrewMajor on April 13, 2022, 11:08 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
April 13, 2022, 11:37 a.m.
Posts: 3154
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: AndrewMajor

'Dirt Church' or 'The Church Of Rolling Mass' or whatever you want to call it is a real thing for a lot of people, myself included. There's magic in the forest that humans have been trying to explain since time began. I don't try to explain it, I just accept it.

Humans evolved outside in nature; it could be argued that it's our natural state. Modern society significantly disconnects us from nature, especially for people who live in urban areas, which is why that time spent in nature away from the artificial world of buildings is so valuable. The cool thing is that there is data to back that up.

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