Very much agree that you can run a higher bar on a bike with a longer RC and a FC that's on the more "conservative" side (maybe 495-500 for XL) - e.g., a Banshee. People are catching onto this. Think you can even see it a little in the new Nomad.
MEATengines 2022...
The general discussion on stems and bars has been great. I gotta remember to check in on this forum more often.
Think bar shape, flex, and setup is one of the most underappreciated areas of the bike. Wish the industry would put resources into a wide array of bars with different shapes and stiffness instead of some of the things they're focused on right now, like making everything electronic . . .
I've read Lee's book and other articles and thought about this a lot, but I always end up having to maximize other variables. I'm just over 6'1 (186cm) and always end up right in between a L and XL. I go with L for my trail bikes that almost always get ridden on nearby purpose-build "sustainable grade" trails and XL for big bikes that get taken to bigger mountains. I start with wheelbase, RC vs. FC, and HTA. Then I do some math to make sure I can get the effective reach and stack I want and can position the saddle somewhere that will give me an acceptable seated position.
I end up running riser bars on both (35mm OneUps) - on the L to preserve reach and on both to compensate for short stacks. Then more than a few degrees of roll back eats up a bunch of reach and costs me a bunch of stack. So the ESL or SHO is what it is. However, I find I can adjust to it just like adjust to different wheelbases, HTAs, etc. when moving between bikes.
I guess my point is that the lack of a L/XL or more sizes (or reach adjust headsets) creates challenges beyond merely effective reach and stack. Always jealous of people that sit right in the sweet spot of a bike size and. as practical matter, don't have a lot of these sorts of decisions made for them.
Posted by: Blofeld
Posted by: Endurimil
So to make it even more confusing. Note this is just my observation.Last time rode either the Stylus or Wideangle was July 27th with knee surgery on the 28th. Just rode 1.5km easy on the Wideangle as well as two more rides on it including at noon today. After all that time off didn't notice any hands or back issues. Then this afternoon decided to do the same 1.5km easy again on the newer Stylus and noticed back was now bothering me, more strain on shoulders, and hands as well as felt like hands where lower. So that in my case means need a much higher rise bar than the mere 45mm had swapped to earlier as with all the issues no amount of twisting bars and such will correct what is really a bar height issue. Thanks bike industry for creating short head tubes with lowe to really zero rise bars that may look fashionable racer cool but really if it is causing pain and misery not cool.
I really feel what you’re saying re. the fashion vs function in this space. I don’t recall off-hand which model years your Chromags are to compare, but I had an XL Rootdown for a bit and it had a 105mm headtube. The pressure on my hands was hard to adjust to, but at least it kept some weight on the front wheel with the mega short chainstays. 🥺 Even the Atherton bike which comes in 22 sizes (!!!) doesn’t really stray much from the current vogue in terms of chainstay and headtube lengths. The handlebar rise and sweep thing has been covered above…but yeah, that too.
Best of luck with the knee recovery. I can imagine the asymmetry that injury created could lead to issues elsewhere even with perfect fit/setup, so a lot of fiddling will probably be required.
Let's see....
Chromag Stylus is a 2020
Chromag Wideangle is one of the prototypes. And based in 2019 when got on it after about a month after hit. It pretty much felt like the 2007 Chromag Samurai just maxed out at a bigger 27.5 tire which was a 2.6 in the rear triangle.
Recovery is going. Though some days people really reveal how ignorant they are about how injuries effect things.
Posted by: AndrewMajor
Posted by: yardrec
I think you can get a 2.6 27.5 tire in there. I’ve got 29x 2.35s on now and may just leave the rear as is and put a 29x2.6 on the front to slack it out a little bit.
Just throwing out that Chromag is having a sale on their, sweet, i40 Magna rim in 26+. Thinking of buying a pair for Clairebarian’s next hardtail because 2.6” rubber works great on i40.
Surly does the Dirt Wizard in 26x3”.
Actually just reminded me of a mock up I tried on a whim a few days ago. Will get a photo of that in the workshop tomorrow.
This popped up today on the FB memories thing from 6 years ago. LOL
Re: "Hiking for Biking"
_Heck, if there's a better way to actively stretch out properly warmed-up legs that is not watching-paint-dry-boring I'd love to hear about it. _
I'm a big fan of the hike-a-bike-centric ride for expanding the adventure/exploration/uncommon terrain possibilities... but if you're purely looking for mobility, what about doing a quick circuit at the top of a climb targeting some of the muscle groups that you're hoping to stretch out? I'm no PT, but maybe some jumping/lunging, a deep squat or two... something that would open up the posterior chain and activate your calves to absorb and stay pliable in big compression moves.
I remember seeing a video (maybe with Curtis Keene or some such pro athlete) many years ago talking about training for the then-new discipline of 'enduro,' in which they were preaching the benefits of doing some strength activation with resistance bands at the top of a climb before dropping in.
Re: hiking as a form of "seeing lines" -- any (every) time I hike or run on a trail that I usually ride, it's like there are several alternate lines which I've never rode before that are suddenly glaringly obvious. Slowing things down to foot-speed is different enough that it's almost like coming to the trail for the first time again.
(Unrelated: am I the only one who feels like the gravel riding community is picking up with hike-a-bike-mandatory rides where the focused-on-designated-climb-trails mountain bikers may have left off?)
Found Bike Photos
Thanks for the reinforcement on the V3 banshee. I recently received one as a crash replacement for my V2, and the trunnion shock rumours had me worried. Seems like there is no side-loading in that member though, so that is good stuff. Thankfully, the new frame is still "silver"!
Posted by: Endurimil
Posted by: AndrewMajor
Posted by: yardrec
I think you can get a 2.6 27.5 tire in there. I’ve got 29x 2.35s on now and may just leave the rear as is and put a 29x2.6 on the front to slack it out a little bit.
Just throwing out that Chromag is having a sale on their, sweet, i40 Magna rim in 26+. Thinking of buying a pair for Clairebarian’s next hardtail because 2.6” rubber works great on i40.
Surly does the Dirt Wizard in 26x3”.
Actually just reminded me of a mock up I tried on a whim a few days ago. Will get a photo of that in the workshop tomorrow.
This popped up today on the FB memories thing from 6 years ago. LOL
^ That was the Herts Shore crew trip to BC back in the day. Chatting to Tony after that was one of the reasons I ended up out here.
Tony is still building and riding ridiculous stuff when he's not doing skills coaching:
Trumps - assume that's Tony Doyle. A couple of riding mates did a coaching session with him and really enjoyed it.
That video is awesome, thanks for sharing
Posted by: silverbansheebike
Found Bike Photos
Thanks for the reinforcement on the V3 banshee. I recently received one as a crash replacement for my V2, and the trunnion shock rumours had me worried. Seems like there is no side-loading in that member though, so that is good stuff. Thankfully, the new frame is still "silver"!
Haha, that’s very much on-brand for you!
I got into AM’s Titan review after seeing that photo. It seemed like the forged shock canoe thing is a sensible way to make a stiff section to mount suspension. Interesting the test bike still ate the trunnion bearings first and seat tubes were cracking at the canoe junction. OTOH Paul Aston had the older 31.6 seat tube version and didn’t manage to break it, so there you go.
I saw one of the Kruch/Inside Line fatbikes in person recently and thought I’d post it here as the collaborators were mentioned in the August 1st post.
What really caught my eye is that the chainstay and seatstay yokes are made additively from 316L SS. Seems to keep the rear wheel really tucked in there, if you’re into that kind of thing.
Posted by: Blofeld
Posted by: silverbansheebike
Found Bike Photos
Thanks for the reinforcement on the V3 banshee. I recently received one as a crash replacement for my V2, and the trunnion shock rumours had me worried. Seems like there is no side-loading in that member though, so that is good stuff. Thankfully, the new frame is still "silver"!
Haha, that’s very much on-brand for you!
I got into AM’s Titan review after seeing that photo. It seemed like the forged shock canoe thing is a sensible way to make a stiff section to mount suspension. Interesting the test bike still ate the trunnion bearings first and seat tubes were cracking at the canoe junction. OTOH Paul Aston had the older 31.6 seat tube version and didn’t manage to break it, so there you go.
It would be interesting to know how many cracked (just to note, my test rig was fine - but yes Trunnion bearings always go first).
34.9 with 31.6 I’ve seen plenty of failures over the year from reaming issues. It’s why Trek moved to the 36mm outer diameter on aluminum frames years ago. It makes more sense to add the margin of error of dropping to 30.9 if staying with 34.9 external.
Posted by: Blofeld
I saw one of the Kruch/Inside Line fatbikes in person recently and thought I’d post it here as the collaborators were mentioned in the August 1st post.
What really caught my eye is that the chainstay and seatstay yokes are made additively from 316L SS. Seems to keep the rear wheel really tucked in there, if you’re into that kind of thing.
That looks rad! Chain stays are 445mm so tucked for Fat but still well balanced.
Last edited by: AndrewMajor on Oct. 29, 2022, 6:12 a.m., edited 2 times in total.
Posted by: AndrewMajor
Posted by: Blofeld
Posted by: silverbansheebike
Found Bike Photos
Thanks for the reinforcement on the V3 banshee. I recently received one as a crash replacement for my V2, and the trunnion shock rumours had me worried. Seems like there is no side-loading in that member though, so that is good stuff. Thankfully, the new frame is still "silver"!
Haha, that’s very much on-brand for you!
I got into AM’s Titan review after seeing that photo. It seemed like the forged shock canoe thing is a sensible way to make a stiff section to mount suspension. Interesting the test bike still ate the trunnion bearings first and seat tubes were cracking at the canoe junction. OTOH Paul Aston had the older 31.6 seat tube version and didn’t manage to break it, so there you go.
It would be interesting to know how many cracked (just to note, my test rig was fine - but yes Trunnion bearings always go first).
34.9 with 31.6 I’ve seen plenty of failures over the year from reaming issues. It’s why Trek moved to the 36mm outer diameter on aluminum frames years ago. It makes more sense to add the margin of error of dropping to 30.9 if staying with 34.9 external.
I think it’s awesome that Banshee made the running change to the Titan. A much better response than ‘shovel and shut-up’. Nicolai uses smaller diameter posts on some of their bigger sizes as well, which seems sensible.
I was trying to figure out if the thickness of the canoe makes it hard to weld or age the 7005 properly. All the failures look the same so I guess it could be process.
Posted by: Blofeld
I think it’s awesome that Banshee made the running change to the Titan. A much better response than ‘shovel and shut-up’. Nicolai uses smaller diameter posts on some of their bigger sizes as well, which seems sensible.
I was trying to figure out if the thickness of the canoe makes it hard to weld or age the 7005 properly. All the failures look the same so I guess it could be process.
Nice, i hadn't seen the failure thread. Could be a failure in the weld heat affected zone, maybe the heat treatment didn't fully take care of this, or maybe its as simple as too small of a tube to be welding to the non-compliant forged member. Either way, theyre great for the re-design and the crash replacements :)
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