If every bike was SS with an well designed factory lubricated chain that would lower the cost and maintenance end of bikes and if you aren't going to shift anyways might as well not have the parts for that.
MEATengines 2022...
Posted by: Vikb
If every bike was SS with an well designed factory lubricated chain that would lower the cost and maintenance end of bikes and if you aren't going to shift anyways might as well not have the parts for that.
Like the Dutch 'grandma' bikes that are singlespeed with the entire drivetrain covered. Still have one in Holland at my parents' place that I ride around town when I visit, it's decades old by now and rides just fine. Zero maintenance apart from inflating the tires!
On a side note, I rode it on a mountain bike trail once and it was pretty fun. Of course these bikes were well ahead of their time: 29" wheels, slack head angle, low bottom bracket, low standover ;-)
Posted by: [email protected]
Posted by: Vikb
If every bike was SS with an well designed factory lubricated chain that would lower the cost and maintenance end of bikes and if you aren't going to shift anyways might as well not have the parts for that.
Like the Dutch 'grandma' bikes that are singlespeed with the entire drivetrain covered. Still have one in Holland at my parents' place that I ride around town when I visit, it's decades old by now and rides just fine. Zero maintenance apart from inflating the tires!
On a side note, I rode it on a mountain bike trail once and it was pretty fun. Of course these bikes were well ahead of their time: 29" wheels, slack head angle, low bottom bracket, low standover ;-)
Just add an automatic shifting 450% gear range 6-speed hub and a front v-brake with an ABS noodle.
No, I get that the hills of North Vancouver are a challenge versus flatter places. But I still think folks sell themselves short when it comes to need vs. want of assistance. Especially all the retired e-folks trying to sell me on a motor for pulling my kid around. Where Do You Have To Be? Get a bike with a proper low gear and spin up a wall.
Posted by: AndrewMajor
I think the key thing to remember, and where we (cyclists) really need to up the education/marketing energy is to impress on folks "losing patience after some time in traffic" that folks on bikes, on transit, etc., are folks that are not creating more traffic. You taking your kid somewhere (anywhere) by bike instead of driving them is saving every driver on the road time. Perhaps even more time than they're spending waiting for your son to cross depending on how over-capacity the roads are at that time of day.
I think about my brother (1) who takes transit to work every day instead of driving (because he can and it saves significant time and money over driving above any other reason) versus my brother (2) in the trades who has to drive to worksites (tools/components/working all over). The more of person-1 we can convince to take to cycle/transit the easier time we're going to have moving person-2 around doing their job. That's increased productivity, decreased costs, and it's better for families and the environment.
Or even how bad traffic was on the main street when I pedaled home from the shop yesterday. I could have been one-more-car instead of one-less-car. And certainly, I drive. More than I'd like to admit. But I'm looking forward to more mixed-mode travel with my daughter this year and that's why we're out practicing and learning the best routes. You know, being less of the problem when I can so folks that need to drive for work can get places.
Good cycling infrastructure and free transit versus spending infinite money warehousing cars (EV or ICE) on or just off of Hwy-1, Hwy-7, Hwy-99, Hwy-91, etc.
Education of drivers only goes so far. Reality is the system of law enforcement across Canada is rotten around cars vs pedestrians and cyclists. The cold hard reality you can add all the new laws to "protect" cyclists all you want and educate all you want. But if all you do is issue those tickets after the cyclist or pedestrian is maimed or killed then it really is nothing more than a look we did something therefore we care bullshit public relations exercise. There is zero basic traffic law enforcement....running read lights to turn right while cop cars are there and do fuck all, and so on.
Also with that language used has to change. It was the driver who willfully mowed down the cyclist not the car is one example. Add in calling any incident where a driver maims or kills a pedestrian or cyclist an "accident" makes it easy to dismiss the injuries the victim of this has sustained. Both physical and mental. While we are at it....just because a cyclist wore a helmet doesn't mean they didn't get a traumatic brain injury or PTSD. Pretty much since was hit because wore a helmet far to many have been dismissive of the fact there has been a head injury both by medical system as well as the other parties involved in this fiasco.
Reality is as an attorney friend stated many times.....Want to get away with murder in Canada? Drive a car.
Attorney I knows IG who has taken this stuff on.....
https://www.instagram.com/velolawca/
And speaking of driver being impatient.
Warning disturbing dashcam video...driver willfully clipping cyclist
On Progressive Fatbikes.
A couple years back because of covid restrictions I decided it wasn't worth it to get a ski pass, so for the first time in 15 years I needed something to do in the winter other than skiing and I decided it was a good enough excuse to get a fatbike. I found myself a smokin deal on a Kona Woo that a local shop had stolen some drivetrain parts off of in order to to get a customers bike fixed at peak bike part shortage times, and just my luck I had everything I needed in my parts bin to get it built up. I was really attracted to the long reach and short and adjustable chainstays of the Woo and that it didn't seem like it's geometry was too XC. Took it on a couple of dirt trail rides in the fall, a couple of snowy rides on highly trafficked winter singletrack, some lunch-break townie trail rides, and a single ride on a groomed XC trail. In it's stock rigid 26x5" fatbike form it was pretty fun on dirt despite the odd steering characteristics that arise with 5" tires on hard surfaces, an absolute blast on (the right) snowy singletrack, lovely for townie trail rides, but I found it boring on wide groomed trail and complete overkill/too sluggish for (my specific) winter commuting. I didn't ride it as much as I thought I would but still had a blast on it. I did some back to back testing against my buddie's fatbike from 2015 with much more XC geometry and they were worlds different, completely different capabilities and truly the only similarity between the two was that they both had gobs of traction, the Woo's geometry was just better able to utilise that traction in an engaging/fun riding experience. The following winter I had a ski pass again and didn't go on a single fatbike ride throughout the entire winter, skiing was just so much better for getting that adrenaline rush I need than fatbiking could provide despite how fun the Woo proved it was to ride. I took it on a few evening smoke sesh rides on neighborhood paths here and there, but it really didn't see the use it deserved, never commuted on it either. After a long and unfruitful wait to try and order parts to lace up a 29er wheelset for it, I lucked out and found a used wheelset with 197mm rear and 110mm front Hope Pro4 hubs laced to 35mm internal width rims. I bought a -2 degree Wolftooth angleset, some TRP Slate T4 brakes (the stock resin-only shimano 2 piston were not my jam), slapped in a 130mm air spring in my Revalation taken off my FS bike, stuffed on Cushcore Plus and 3" Surly Dirt Wizards and got it all re-built ready to rip some dirt. Holy shit it is a fun bike, especially after falling into the trap of lazy-line-choice that my FS bike provided it really provided some new challenge to my local trails and is an absolute hoot to ride, and it really confirmed that it's initial purchase wasn't completely impulsive.
So for someone who is wanting a hardtail for dirt riding, and also happens to live somewhere with winter riding opportunities, an agressive fatbike with two wheelsets is a pretty great solution and in my opinion is worth the "downside" of the wide q factor and semi-niche hub spacing. It may not be the silver bullet to provide the motivation to actually ride in the winter, but it certainly can be a tool to scratch that itch if you've got the right trails for it. The Kona Woo has been pretty great for that for me. However if your winter riding needs are only commuting and riding packed snow trails and paths, it might make more sense to just get a bike that can fit a 3" studded tire and not bother with all the faff of fatbike hub spacing, multiple wheelsets, and different forks, a plus bike is likely a more practical 4 season bike for a lot of riders.
The extra stance, particularly for the narrower examples, of fat bikes doesn't particularly bother me - I've often found myself finding ways to enlarge my q-factor a touch (without messing up chainline). But I know of a few folks who own them who only use them for the intended purpose so I think it's always something worth noting.
Absolutely, if I lived somewhere that a fat bike was the answer to year-around riding I'd own one and given my preference for fewer bikes I think it would be my Walt V2 just also capable of taking some fat 27" rubber. Can run it rigid or with suspension. It's just not a rig I needed so it wasn't worth managing the hub widths. Great solution for year-round aggressive riding where it snows.
Woo with -2° sounds great. Do you ever find yourself thinking you'd want something longer and slacker? Progressive fat bikes seem to be entirely the realm of custom builders.
My fat bike is a Salsa Mukluk with a -2 Wolf Tooth headset. The headset really brought it to life. Was nervous and twitchy before, even with the large contact patch to damp steering inputs. Lots more stability now.
I read the Meat Engines piece on fat bikes and appreciated seeing my preferred local shop (Inside Line) there! They do good things!
I’m not sure why fatbike geometry never really evolved along with the rest of production hardtails. It’s as if all the product managers took the “geometry is free” idea and turned it into a bizarre money saving exercise. Or maybe they’re trying to see who can sell frames from the same batch for the most consecutive years?
I ended up going custom and started with a rigid/hardtail design that I wanted to ride, then made the accommodations for the fat tires. It’s arguably more aggressive than Reg’s Kruch, but I went with superboost/83mm spacing and a max 100mm rear tire.
Posted by: Blofeld
I’m not sure why fatbike geometry never really evolved along with the rest of production hardtails. It’s as if all the product managers took the “geometry is free” idea and turned it into a bizarre money saving exercise. Or maybe they’re trying to see who can sell frames from the same batch for the most consecutive years?
I ended up going custom and started with a rigid/hardtail design that I wanted to ride, then made the accommodations for the fat tires. It’s arguably more aggressive than Reg’s Kruch, but I went with superboost/83mm spacing and a max 100mm rear tire.
If I was going to guess I’d say most product managers don’t actually ride fat bikes and the ones that do are the in places where you can get away with anything for geo (see my repeated nudging of Trek for a modern Stache).
Where this is (attempting at) murdering Plus tires would can’t ride 2.5” rubber the same places as 5” rubber so fat bikes sort of persist.
I’d make an exception for the Blizzard line from Rocky though. That would be my starting point for a stock fatty.
———
Where did you end up with your rig? Who did you get to build it? Pictures?!
Your post is such a tease!
Posted by: mrbrett
My fat bike is a Salsa Mukluk with a -2 Wolf Tooth headset. The headset really brought it to life. Was nervous and twitchy before, even with the large contact patch to damp steering inputs. Lots more stability now.
I read the Meat Engines piece on fat bikes and appreciated seeing my preferred local shop (Inside Line) there! They do good things!
I had the privilege of working with Cam for a little while. When I heard he was opening a shop I knew it would be among the best anywhere. Not saying any place is for everyone - and bike shops preferences are as personal as saddle choice - but he’s a great guy who gets it.
I know a fair amount about bikes - riding them, fixing them, setting them up, history - and hold lots of opinions (many of them very much minority opinions) but I think it’s really important to be forth coming about parts of cycling where my knowledge is academic. And the more I thought about it the more pulling aside the curtain, figuratively, seemed a pertinent thing to do.
Anyway, always happy to refer folks to where I think they’ll find the best expertise - or solid counter opinions to my own. It sounds like we’d send folks to the same place for Fat.
Your Mukluk sounds awesome! Photo?
Last edited by: AndrewMajor on Aug. 4, 2022, 8:34 a.m., edited 2 times in total.
Best shot I have! I had to get an XL because the reach is short on these things, and then cut the seat tube down and re-notch to I have enough height for my dropper and my kid's MacRide clamp. Pretty fun bike - we have a long winter so if I didn't have something like this, I'd be forced into I don't know what?! XC skis or something? Since then I also put some 4 piston XT brakes on so I can go back to 160mm rotors - keeping the admittedly undersize rotors dry and away from the snow is better to me than larger ones that howl a lot. And the Wolf Tooth pogies have been incredible too. The rear tire is a 4" Dillinger (seasonally) so with the front being a 5" it's almost like a mullet in terms of the difference in diameter.
After 7 years fatbiking I am starting to learn the little tricks to make them work and be fun.
Last edited by: mrbrett on Aug. 4, 2022, 7:07 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
I was a bit sad when I moved to the island realized there wasn't much use for a fatty here. After a couple years of trying to justify the garage space I ended up selling them both. I can't see myself moving back to a location with a real winter so I'm likely fat-free for life. That won't stop me from geeking out on other people's fine fatbikes though. :-)
Posted by: Vikb
I was a bit sad when I moved to the island realized there wasn't much use for a fatty here. After a couple years of trying to justify the garage space I ended up selling them both. I can't see myself moving back to a location with a real winter so I'm likely fat-free for life. That won't stop me from geeking out on other people's fine fatbikes though. :-)
Vik, funny you mention moving to Comox and fatbikes. Know a guy who moved his family there from here in January 2021. Adam is known for doing huge things on Fatbikes. Both wither and Summer. He did the ButterTart 700 on a fatbike and of course the Iceroad Challenge.
Posted by: AndrewMajor
Tanagers don’t actually ride fat bikes and the ones that do are the in places where you can get away with anything for geo (see my repeated nudging of Trek for a modern Stache).
Where this is (attempting at) murdering Plus tires would can’t ride 2.5” rubber the same places as 5” rubber so fat bikes sort of persist.
I’d make an exception for the Blizzard line from Rocky though. That would be my starting point for a stock fatty.
———
Andrew funny timing about the Fatbikes piece. Guy I follow on IG called Republic Of Doom just did an epic trip on fat bikes traversing part of Iceland's Coast via Fatbike and Packraft.
Posted by: AndrewMajor
If I was going to guess I’d say most product managers don’t actually ride fat bikes and the ones that do are the in places where you can get away with anything for geo (see my repeated nudging of Trek for a modern Stache).
Where this is (attempting at) murdering Plus tires would can’t ride 2.5” rubber the same places as 5” rubber so fat bikes sort of persist.
I’d make an exception for the Blizzard line from Rocky though. That would be my starting point for a stock fatty.
———
Where did you end up with your rig? Who did you get to build it? Pictures?!
Your post is such a tease!
In my experience there is so much traction volatility when fatbiking on snow and ice your speed needs to be capped. This does let a 69* HA work in some cases. As for 450mm reaches on XLs, I don’t know what to say…I suppose it’s a good way to move some 100mm stems.
I laughed when the Scott Big Jon started showing up as a 2021 model year in some shops. I’m pretty sure it was identical to the 2017 (latest model on the Scott website) except with an NX Eagle drivetrain. I hope the tires didn’t dry out in storage!
Good point about the Blizzard. Rocky is often “liberal” with their geometry tables, but it does look like they made something decent there.
My bike’s a Waltworks…I guess I don’t retain credit for posting about it on Disqus, do I?
Forum jump:
