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MEATengines

June 16, 2022, 10:26 a.m.
Posts: 1292
Joined: Sept. 10, 2012

Thinking about e-bikes without inventing anything new you can protect the battery better from damage [impact/vibration/water] and you can design in a smart BMS [Battery Management System] that monitors and reports on battery cell health. The BMS could take action on its own to deactivate a battery that was out of spec so it could not be used in a bike or charged. That would at least force the user to take some investigation/repair action. The technology for both these items exists currently.

The enhanced protection would add to the cost and to the size of the battery packs. The smart BMS would add to the cost. At the moment there doesn't seem to be an interest in these improvements. Perhaps that will change over time as battery fires occur more often and get more press coverage. The Government could of course regulate this technology and require manufacturers to incorporate specific safety features.

June 16, 2022, 10:49 a.m.
Posts: 27
Joined: Feb. 8, 2022

Posted by: kcy4130

Sounds like it might be ripe for some entrepreneur to devise some practical countermeasures to battery fires. Not just ebikes but elec cars too. Maybe some sort of neutralizing chemical built into batteries that's released if a certain temp is reached? It'd make batteries heavier tho. Or some sort of battery specific fire extinguisher? I'm an ME, so my knowledge of battery architecture/chemistry is practically nonexistent so can't even imagine the problems faced. There could be a lot of money to be made.

They have auto-extinguishing systems for race car engines, so I'd imagine its possible


 Last edited by: silverbansheebike on June 16, 2022, 10:49 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
June 16, 2022, 3:20 p.m.
Posts: 272
Joined: Jan. 21, 2013

At work we are in the planning phases of a new lab, with a battery charging area - including fire suppression. It’s been possible to have stuff like that for a long time, but costs (plenty of) money. 

We are talking about semi legit moped based “bike” shops that are unwilling to pay for complete insurance coverage here - let alone proper fire suppression and a charging/storage area separate from the main shop. Couple that with low quality containers of batteries and it’s really a disaster waiting to happen.

June 23, 2022, 1:01 p.m.
Posts: 197
Joined: March 16, 2017

Andrew... particularly like this bit wrote about shifter choice.

https://meatengines.com/f/under-the-bar-thumb-shifting

"And let all few of us be honest here. It doesn't really matter. In whichever way one orientation is better than the other, neither is the choice someone is going to make if they're racing mountain bicycles competitively, in any application. "

Though I would say it depends on how competitive the level your using as the bench mark.

June 24, 2022, midnight
Posts: 35
Joined: Dec. 24, 2021

On headtube badges, I have to say that BTR's utilitarian choice is a favorite of mine. It's fitting that it is a bit industrial, and I don't know anyone else doing the same thing.

June 24, 2022, 3:51 a.m.
Posts: 1292
Joined: Sept. 10, 2012

Posted by: eriksg

On headtube badges, I have to say that BTR's utilitarian choice is a favorite of mine. It's fitting that it is a bit industrial, and I don't know anyone else doing the same thing.

Not quite as utilitarian as BTR, but GG puts the bike's serial number on the headtube like BTR. I don't really care about HT badges all that much, but a bit more "devil's horns" in my life doesn't hurt.

When I got my Cotic I thought it was coming with their old HT badge and I disliked that one enough I would have removed it. In the event it came with their new logo on the badge which looked fine to me.

Given a choice I'd take a metal badge over a decal, but on my bikes with decals there it's not something I notice much once I am past the building up the bike stage and on to actually riding it.

June 24, 2022, 6:26 a.m.
Posts: 1668
Joined: Nov. 8, 2003

Posted by: Vikb

Not quite as utilitarian as BTR, but GG puts the bike's serial number on the headtube like BTR. I don't really care about HT badges all that much, but a bit more "devil's horns" in my life doesn't hurt.

When I got my Cotic I thought it was coming with their old HT badge and I disliked that one enough I would have removed it. In the event it came with their new logo on the badge which looked fine to me.

Given a choice I'd take a metal badge over a decal, but on my bikes with decals there it's not something I notice much once I am past the building up the bike stage and on to actually riding it.

Kill it with fire

June 24, 2022, 6:39 a.m.
Posts: 1292
Joined: Sept. 10, 2012

Posted by: Hepcat

Kill it with fire

Funny. The headbadge said the same thing about your opinion of it! ;-)

June 24, 2022, 6:46 a.m.
Posts: 272
Joined: Jan. 21, 2013

Posted by: Vikb

Posted by: Hepcat

Kill it with fire

Funny. The headbadge said the same thing about your opinion of it! ;-)

I agree with both of these comments.

June 24, 2022, 6:52 a.m.
Posts: 264
Joined: Feb. 28, 2017

I like the BTR badges. They’re thoughtfully clean like the rest of the bikes. Perfect for a bike that’s going to let the manufacturing quality speak for itself. I think they’re a, relatively expensive, perfect example of what most brands are looking to front (with badges or stickers).

I’m torn on the GG ones. I mean, it’s a nicely made badge and I think it lends a first impression of highest quality/investment grade bicycle. And, I get they’re just having fun. But, in terms of evoking emotion the whole font/graphic package is just very bro-dude. Tongue in cheek or otherwise it seems to me we have that covered in mountain biking. If they had two packages to choose from an the other was a more classy BTR-esque setup it would be interesting to see which sold better. 

Neither is fun like the Balfa badge though. Love that tire eating wrench.

June 24, 2022, 6:53 a.m.
Posts: 264
Joined: Feb. 28, 2017

Posted by: Vikb

Posted by: Hepcat

Kill it with fire

Funny. The headbadge said the same thing about your opinion of it! ;-)

Hahahaha.

June 24, 2022, 7:27 a.m.
Posts: 1292
Joined: Sept. 10, 2012

Whenever I come across an aesthetic or technical choice made by someone who runs a bike company that I don't like [the choice, not the person] I remind myself that's the privilege you get for making something and if I wanted to do something different I could go right ahead and start my own bike company. Usually about then I STFU and move on. ;-)

Having met the GG owners/team they are nice folks who are doing exactly what they want to do. Would I care if their branding/logos were all based on the tallest peaks in CO instead of rock and roll? Nope. I didn't buy my Smash because of the Devil's Horn logo or The Clash reference. But, it does make me smile when I think about how silly it is and I also chuckle when someone reacts like Hepcat. At the end of the day GG keeps expanding its production capacity and they keep selling every bike they make as fast as they make them so they are doing something right.

June 24, 2022, 9:44 a.m.
Posts: 35
Joined: Dec. 24, 2021

Posted by: Vikb

Whenever I come across an aesthetic or technical choice made by someone who runs a bike company that I don't like [the choice, not the person] I remind myself that's the privilege you get for making something and if I wanted to do something different I could go right ahead and start my own bike company. Usually about then I STFU and move on. ;-)

Having met the GG owners/team they are nice folks who are doing exactly what they want to do. Would I care if their branding/logos were all based on the tallest peaks in CO instead of rock and roll? Nope. I didn't buy my Smash because of the Devil's Horn logo or The Clash reference. But, it does make me smile when I think about how silly it is and I also chuckle when someone reacts like Hepcat. At the end of the day GG keeps expanding its production capacity and they keep selling every bike they make as fast as they make them so they are doing something right.

That's basically how I felt about the old Cotic badge you brought up, above:  it was their choice, and I can lament it and think they could have increased their appeal with a change. But that's their choice.

The old badge was an eyesore to me and it was one strike against it in the aesthetics column of my buying spreadsheet. I was happy when they changed it. But I'm sure someone (maybe Cy) loved the old one. And if it represented something authentic to the makers and not just an attempt to appeal to the broadest audience, well small brands can do that and afford to offend some people.

June 24, 2022, 10:06 a.m.
Posts: 23
Joined: July 14, 2021

An elaborate or gawdy head badge (on a production bike) is like a joke about hipsters: it divides the room into people who think it's hilarious and hipsters who are mad at you for telling it. A head badge will delight some and embarrass others, sorta a risk as a manufacturer to go to elaborate. 

Also, Major: that decal looks great!

June 24, 2022, 11:19 a.m.
Posts: 1292
Joined: Sept. 10, 2012

Posted by: eriksg

That's basically how I felt about the old Cotic badge you brought up, above:  it was their choice, and I can lament it and think they could have increased their appeal with a change. But that's their choice.

The old badge was an eyesore to me and it was one strike against it in the aesthetics column of my buying spreadsheet. I was happy when they changed it. But I'm sure someone (maybe Cy) loved the old one. And if it represented something authentic to the makers and not just an attempt to appeal to the broadest audience, well small brands can do that and afford to offend some people.

100%. I was going to the buy the frame because I was interested to try the geo and the company had a good reputation for quality & CS. Cy and some customers loved the old logo. If my frame had come with it on the bike I would have just peeled off the headbadge and gone about my business. I happened to get the new logo which I liked better so that worked out.

Cy has a bunch of other design choices that don't really work for me, but if he's stoked on the bikes he makes more power to him. As long as he can sell enough of them to sustain his business that's all that matters. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend a Cotic to people if the situation was right.

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