MEATengines 2022...

I built up a bike with XX Eagle recently and the extracting cap was loctited in with a green substance from the factory. And while I've never lost one myself I did have one break the outer part off when pulling a stubborn crank arm.

Since you brought up the SRAM Dub standard.....

What it took to crack the crank bolt last December. Sram cranks where not reinstalled.

Sram  Dub go fuck yourself.

Posted by: AndrewMajor

Posted by: tashi

The real question to me is: 

Do any of SRAM’s competitors have this problem?

If no, then it’s a SRAM issue and they should freakin fix it if they want to be competitive. There’s a reason I choose Shimano. 

Also: Loctite comes in a stick?!?!

FSA (and therefore Cannondale) has exactly the same issue and I'd say anecdotally it occurs at a similar rate - there are just a lot less of the cranks around. I pulled mine and Loctited them just as with the SRAM cranks. 

I've seen RaceFace Cinch cranks missing their extractor caps but at a much lower rate. They thread in deeper and can be tightened firmer using the 16mm hex than with pin spanner a la SRAM/FSA. 

Shimano was the way to go in the days of 4/104. They're assholes for the number of different BCDs they introduced (was working on a bike today with their 4/96 cranks). When I look at how many chainring SKUs exist because of Shimano's misadventures it makes me grind my teeth. Then there's the bullshit that their direct mount cranks didn't use any number of legacy tools for chainring mounting. On top of that, the fact they didn't design proper clearance into the arms and so are making multiple spindle lengths (instead of doing offset with chainrings) wounds me personally.

I can't see any reason to buy a Shimano crankset over an Aeffect R if you want a 24mm spindle?!

------

Loctite in a stick is awesome. Liquid is cheaper for shop use and it's not a big deal if you're prepping a number of spokes and bolts at once, but at home the stick is quick.

Hunh, not up to date on most of that, the spindle thing sounds particularly hokey. my m980’s just keep on trucking so I haven’t had to stay abreast of cranks for a while it seems.

Posted by: tashi

Hunh, not up to date on most of that, the spindle thing sounds particularly hokey. my m980’s just keep on trucking so I haven’t had to stay abreast of cranks for a while it seems.

Yeah, nothing weird about M980. Well, except a lot of folks found that the chainring nuts/caps (which did look sweet) we’re really soft and so things would stretch/loosen. You’re probably set up 1x with regular chainring bolts though?

Posted by: Endurimil

Since you brought up the SRAM Dub standard.....

What it took to crack the crank bolt last December. Sram cranks where not reinstalled.

Sram Dub go fuck yourself.

I’ve removed tons of SRAM DUB cranksets to change rings or bottom brackets and never needed more that a big 8mm (or smaller 8mm and small cheater) and years of experience.

Certainly, I accept that yours could be a strange outlier. But a bar like that shouldn’t even be needed to remove a DT Swiss drive ring. It’s like anything else with bikes, sometimes the best practice is to throw in the towel and go see your local service professional.

Sometimes they have access to tools or information you don’t, but often - as with DUB cranks - it’s just reps.

Posted by: joseph-crabtree

I built up a bike with XX Eagle recently and the extracting cap was loctited in with a green substance from the factory. And while I've never lost one myself I did have one break the outer part off when pulling a stubborn crank arm.

That’s good to know! Hopefully they’ve caught up at every level. 

Sh*t happens. “One time, I saw…” is one of my favourite games at a shop.

Posted by: AndrewMajor

Posted by: tashi

Hunh, not up to date on most of that, the spindle thing sounds particularly hokey. my m980’s just keep on trucking so I haven’t had to stay abreast of cranks for a while it seems.

Yeah, nothing weird about M980. Well, except a lot of folks found that the chainring nuts/caps (which did look sweet) we’re really soft and so things would stretch/loosen. You’re probably set up 1x with regular chainring bolts though?

Yep, although I think I may have shortened them. The caps never failed when I ran it as a triple. 

My anti-SRAM feelings are possibly out of date - I’m still holding a grudge from attempting to use top-end Juicies and XO rear derailleurs. Subsequent generations were fine, but I didn’t appreciate being a test mule. Shimano products may be proprietary sometimes (XTR and DA in particular) but from my consumer experience, they virtually always work properly and for a LONG time.

I was a Shimanophile / SRAMphobic at one time as well. Although, I really like the first gen Juicy 7 brakes. Shimano’s dominance has been eroded at the high end by SRAM (their resistance to 1x, a million BCDs v. 3-Bolt, not fixing their brakes, derailleur cages made of soft cheese) and at the low end by stuff like MicroShift or BOX that’s clunky but gets the job done with a clutch. 

Anyway, ride what works for you but keep an open mind about product performance unless a company has wounded you personally. 

It’s funny (to me) how easy it is to have a great bike with zero ShiRAMano stuff these days - not even talking single-speeds.

Posted by: AndrewMajor

Posted by: Endurimil

Since you brought up the SRAM Dub standard.....

What it took to crack the crank bolt last December. Sram cranks where not reinstalled.

Sram Dub go fuck yourself.

I’ve removed tons of SRAM DUB cranksets to change rings or bottom brackets and never needed more that a big 8mm (or smaller 8mm and small cheater) and years of experience.

Certainly, I accept that yours could be a strange outlier. But a bar like that shouldn’t even be needed to remove a DT Swiss drive ring. It’s like anything else with bikes, sometimes the best practice is to throw in the towel and go see your local service professional.

Sometimes they have access to tools or information you don’t, but often - as with DUB cranks - it’s just reps.

If my SRAM bolts are reeeally reeeally stuck, I do a thing where I take the bike out of the stand, get the crank level, pointed toward the back of the bike. Put an offcut of a 4x4 post or some similar wood under the end of the crank arm/pedal area. Put the 8mm in with a 30 degree angle or so, like 10:00 kind of angle. Then stand/stomp on the end of the allen key. Pops the bolt loose every time. If you use a 3/8" breaker bar with an 8mm socket it even ramps up the pressure for those ultra stuck ones, because less handle flex.

Toss 200 lb of jiggly man at an 8mm bolt in just the right direction and it doesn't stand a chance!

Posted by: AndrewMajor

Posted by: Endurimil

Since you brought up the SRAM Dub standard.....

What it took to crack the crank bolt last December. Sram cranks where not reinstalled.

Sram Dub go fuck yourself.

I’ve removed tons of SRAM DUB cranksets to change rings or bottom brackets and never needed more that a big 8mm (or smaller 8mm and small cheater) and years of experience.

Certainly, I accept that yours could be a strange outlier. But a bar like that shouldn’t even be needed to remove a DT Swiss drive ring. It’s like anything else with bikes, sometimes the best practice is to throw in the towel and go see your local service professional.

Sometimes they have access to tools or information you don’t, but often - as with DUB cranks - it’s just reps.

Maybe. Very loud crack to get it to release. Also in doing this the 8mm Allen wrench has a twist to it now. Had to use the pipe with the BB wrench to release the drive side cup as well. 

Installed a set of FSA Gravity cranks with a Shimano X Type BB and left the Sram stuff somewhere on the workbench.

In a mad scientist manner, what governs the difference in cassette cog sizes that a derailleur can step between, if the largest radius is not past the maximum that the cage can move to/from. I'm taking cues from the standard sizing of the 10-52 cog step sizes here

Posted by: mrbrett

Posted by: AndrewMajor

Posted by: Endurimil

Since you brought up the SRAM Dub standard.....

What it took to crack the crank bolt last December. Sram cranks where not reinstalled.

Sram Dub go fuck yourself.

I’ve removed tons of SRAM DUB cranksets to change rings or bottom brackets and never needed more that a big 8mm (or smaller 8mm and small cheater) and years of experience.

Certainly, I accept that yours could be a strange outlier. But a bar like that shouldn’t even be needed to remove a DT Swiss drive ring. It’s like anything else with bikes, sometimes the best practice is to throw in the towel and go see your local service professional.

Sometimes they have access to tools or information you don’t, but often - as with DUB cranks - it’s just reps.

If my SRAM bolts are reeeally reeeally stuck, I do a thing where I take the bike out of the stand, get the crank level, pointed toward the back of the bike. Put an offcut of a 4x4 post or some similar wood under the end of the crank arm/pedal area. Put the 8mm in with a 30 degree angle or so, like 10:00 kind of angle. Then stand/stomp on the end of the allen key. Pops the bolt loose every time. If you use a 3/8" breaker bar with an 8mm socket it even ramps up the pressure for those ultra stuck ones, because less handle flex.

Toss 200 lb of jiggly man at an 8mm bolt in just the right direction and it doesn't stand a chance!

Yeah that's my technique now too. I made the mistake of using an impact gun with a non-impact 8mm hex bit and the bit exploded. 2x4 and breaker bar works every time. Also, greasing the threads every time makes life much easier.

I stick the front wheel against a wall and push down on the breaker bar with my foot.

Similar technique for me, the one time they were really stuck. Take the wheels off so crank can be supported on the ground. Allen at 30 degrees, and put body weight on it. SNAP and it's off. Grease makes it easier from then on.