MEATengines 2022...

I've moved to flats on my HT for really techy low-speed riding. I guess the closer of Trials it gets, the more flats make sense for me.

But add speed, and the risk (for me, anyway) of slipping a pedal puts me right back on clipless.

Posted by: [email protected]

Andrew, I just read "How To F' Things Up For Your Shop & Customers (In One Easy Step)" and it made me laugh but also a bit sad.

If anything it shows what social media addiction is doing. People just can't resist posting their emotions. My annual fork service ended up taking 5 weeks instead of 1 day because it turned out a part needed to be warrantied by Fox and there were delays and communication issues. I can assure you I vented my frustration privately but not towards the people who were just trying to do their best doing their job and certainly not for the entire world to see on social media (which I don't use at all).

Cheers Niels,

I go through a range of emotions about it as well. I'm working on a piece right now about it actually. The fact is that almost all issues with service stem from the fact that wrenching on bikes is skilled, seasonal work and the high-demand season for parts and labour is somewhere around 4-months (~April-July) and the whole supply chain can't financially be built around the demand from that more limited period of time. Suppliers do try and work around it with bookings and such, but when everything's on fire it's on fire. 

It's exasperated by many factors, especially staffing issues, which I think have much more to do with living costs than any other factor. One constant downward pressure on mechanics' wages is the fact that there is still a relatively quiet 'red' season in every shops' service department that has to be supported financially by the throatiest part of the 'black' season. 

Stuff blows up and etc. - can't plan for everything - but there are certainly better and worse times of year to have routine service done.

Posted by: [email protected]

Andrew, I just read "How To F' Things Up For Your Shop & Customers (In One Easy Step)" and it made me laugh but also a bit sad.

The bike shop employee in that piece is lucky he wasn’t sacked for that post.  

Bring up your professional connections in a ‘personal’ social account and you’re opening yourself up to blowback.  Not in the bike industry, but we’ve let people go for social posts that were over the line.

I’ve been a young and dumb early 20s bike shop guy - very arrogant and selfish. If you’re a top mechanic or salesperson at a shop it can really inflate the ego. 

Not sure this is the case for this person but I have seen through my own eyes that regrettably terrible stage of “king shit of the bike shop” that I made it through. 

Undoubtedly bad behaviour, very unprofessional.

Posted by: AndrewMajor

I didn’t know this what’s a flats forward community? Most single speeders I know clip-in and it’s definitely faster up and down.

I know a few riders who run flats sometimes on their sag-wagon but always clip-in on their hardtail to keep their feet on the pedals through janky terrain. 

My switch to flats exclusively is based in psychology not performance. It’s more fun, and part of the reason it’s more fun is it’s more casual. Just like riding a rigid fork or hardtail or etc - choosing not to use the fastest / highest performance option opens up a root system of different thinking.

Ok...I'll bite on the flats vs clipped in.  And break it down a wee bit into three parts.

-Reality is that most mtb riders unless worrying about racing would be just fine on flats all the time. Funny thing is some will as have already claim the whole well my feet move all over the place. Based on experience and observations in the last three years first thing would suggest looking at is pedal size.

- Reality is when one rides flat pedals your body does more work. And one area that it does more work is...the muscles of the foot. Don't believe me? If you ride flat pedals all the time switch to clipped in pedals for about 2-3 weeks straight then switch back. Bet the foot is sore because the muscles in that foot cast aka mtb clipless show is stiff and barely flexes. And the muscles have worked less so of course are sore because they have been made to work again. And get this the human brain has this wonderful feature that basically rewards you for doing less and so on. It makes you feel good for doing that because by going that path means you use less energy which the unconcious part of the brain wants you to save.

- Ok....it never ceases to amaze me how many in the last two years made statements about how you can't ride well on flats or you can't ride 50km on flat pedals. Yet no thought that maybe there are other reasons for using flat pedals like injury. Using myself as an example due to knee injury can't use clip in pedals at all as it increases chances of other injury. So flats it is. Plus let's add in the pyschological part of it which injury wise by removing clipless pedals from the equation it removes things like over thinking every ride, anxiety that clipless may cause leg to suddenly twist before the clipless pedal releases. One thing I learned in the last three years though is size of the flat pedal matters more then I thought. See in July 2019 while in Whistler got to ride a Chromag NIce Dreams borrowed with the bigger Chromag Scarab pedals. Didn't realize at the time that my foot wasn't moving around as much riding Cut Yer Bars, Section 102, and so on that weekend. When I came home and rode the Wideangle after a bit started noticing how much my feet where moving around on the smaller basically standard flat pedals. Hunted down a set of used Scarab pedals and took care of that. Now unless I place my foot down on the pedals wrong very little moving around. And in 2020 upped the anti on the Stylus by getting the Dagga pedals on it. 

No more small pedals on my bikes.

I ride clipless when I want to.

I ride flats when I want to.

There are some things I'm better at on clipless.

There are some things I'm better at on flats.

It's as simple as that for me.

Posted by: AndrewMajor

I didn’t know this what’s a flats forward community?

My switch to flats exclusively is based in psychology not performance. It’s more fun, and part of the reason it’s more fun is it’s more casual.

My comment was a bit in jest but also a realisation as I've never switched mid ride between the two.  It is definitely worth a try even if you don't notice anything.

I remember hearing Chris Porter say that he will set a bike up differently depending on your pedal of choice and I get this now.  I'm not sure how I would do this myself but I did notice the difference in body position between the two.

Posted by: thaaad

I ride clipless when I want to.

I ride flats when I want to.

There are some things I'm better at on clipless.

There are some things I'm better at on flats.

It's as simple as that for me.

I'm the same.  I like riding both and switch between quite regularly (sometimes weeks between changes). 

I think it's good for your riding to ride both regularly and do different types of rides on each.

I much prefer the feel of clipless but have gone back to flats for the time being in an attempt to rehab some of my bad habits, especially re: jumping and dropping. Clipless still lives on my gravel bike cause it just feels right, and to keep the muscle memory going for when/if I switch back. When lighter ones hit the market I might split the difference and try magnetic pedals.

I tend to go all clipless or all flats (across all my bikes, gravel included). Yeah it's a bit odd showing up for a long road or gravel ride in Freeriders but it feels right to keep the pedals all aligned across my bikes. And, I'm almost certainly not the one wiping out in the coffee shop!

My brain seems to be slow to rewire to "what pedals are on my bike today?"

Posted by: mrbrett

I tend to go all clipless or all flats (across all my bikes, gravel included). Yeah it's a bit odd showing up for a long road or gravel ride in Freeriders but it feels right to keep the pedals all aligned across my bikes. And, I'm almost certainly not the one wiping out in the coffee shop!

My brain seems to be slow to rewire to "what pedals are on my bike today?"

My last hold out for clipless was my gravel/road bike. Then I did a number of 1hr commute time trials on flats and clipless and there was no difference for my performance so I switched to flats there as well. It may have been odd to have flats on that bike, but I've since got rid of it and my gravel/road bike is a hardtail so my weirdo level is high enough nobody will focus on my pedal choice.

Posted by: Vikb

Posted by: mrbrett

I tend to go all clipless or all flats (across all my bikes, gravel included). Yeah it's a bit odd showing up for a long road or gravel ride in Freeriders but it feels right to keep the pedals all aligned across my bikes. And, I'm almost certainly not the one wiping out in the coffee shop!

My brain seems to be slow to rewire to "what pedals are on my bike today?"

My last hold out for clipless was my gravel/road bike. Then I did a number of 1hr commute time trials on flats and clipless and there was no difference for my performance so I switched to flats there as well. It may have been odd to have flats on that bike, but I've since got rid of it and my gravel/road bike is a hardtail so my weirdo level is high enough nobody will focus on my pedal choice.

Know a local woman who got a gravel bike last year because tired of being nearly run off the road on her road bike. She rides it with flat pedals and has no second thoughts. She did an 80km ride on it about a week ago.

One advantage to having flat pedals. Can find a pair of shoes to ride with anywhere. I should know as road trip in 2016  to Waterloo four hours away and discover no shoes. No problem next day popped into Value Village in Waterloo and came out with a pair of old converse and was riding all weekend.

Posted by: Endurimil

One advantage to having flat pedals. Can find a pair of shoes to ride with anywhere. I should know as road trip in 2016  to Waterloo four hours away and discover no shoes. No problem next day popped into Value Village in Waterloo and came out with a pair of old converse and was riding all weekend.

So what you're saying is, correct me if I'm wrong, you prefer flat pedals (lol).