MEATengines 2022...

Bikeryder85-

My two cents... I’m about an inch taller than you and currently ride a Stanton slackline with around 425 reach at sag. I would caution against much more than this for reach for the kind of terrain you ride. I live in coastal California and my terrain is a mix of tight rocky Jank and wide open loose over hard. At high speed I’m not lacking in stability and at lower speeds I’ve got plenty of maneuverability. I’d post the link if I could remember where I found it but Dan Stanton has an interesting take on not getting carried away with reach and wheelbase for hardtails.

Posted by: AndrewMajor

Posted by: mammal

I just keep all my old worn out gloves. When holes appear in newer pairs, I patch them with pieces of the faux-leather material from the old ones, using a similar-but-better adhesive to Shoe Goo (E6000 Automotive and Industrial Adhesive - truly amazing stuff).

That seat though... You definitely take the dirtbag crown, and trophy, and probably deserve a local monument in your honor.

Tell me more about this E6000?!

I have to agree, that saddle is worthy of having a proper janky trail named after it. One of the good ones where it feels like you climb your bike from the top to the bottom and there's at least one mandatory bike-carry in the middle somewhere. 

'The Endurisaddle'

It should be noted that that saddle I just noticed has a wee bit of a bent right saddle rail.

Posted by: Ziggy

Bikeryder85-

My two cents... I’m about an inch taller than you and currently ride a Stanton slackline with around 425 reach at sag. I would caution against much more than this for reach for the kind of terrain you ride. I live in coastal California and my terrain is a mix of tight rocky Jank and wide open loose over hard. At high speed I’m not lacking in stability and at lower speeds I’ve got plenty of maneuverability. I’d post the link if I could remember where I found it but Dan Stanton has an interesting take on not getting carried away with reach and wheelbase for hardtails.

That has been my thought process, I like the idea of 427 (arbitray number that allows me to name the bike after the reach and a popular vette racing motor)...but thought "hey, may as well get two!" When thinking about Marino. It is all in design-in-my-head phase right now...and I may just pick one and build on my own....or get a few things to modify the Soul. I can get to 412 reach (calculated) on it...with some mods.

Posted by: Vikb

Posted by: fartymarty

Cotics won't work then as they're a long stay bike.  I'm 6'1" so have no problems with long stays bit I get it if you're running a shorter reach.

Def get slidy drops so you can play with stay length.

The issue for me seems to be that I carry most of my body weight in my shoulders/chest with scrawny legs/butt. If CS get long I can't traction the rear wheel and I am unable to get up steep climbs. With short CS bikes I can load up that rear wheel and tractor up steep climbs no problem. With very slack STAs [ie Krampus] I can make a longer CS work. With steeper STAs long CS become more of a problem.

I also like the feel of shorter CS, but it's the inability to climb that is the deal breaker for me.

I have a similar issue with finding traction...though mine is likely caused by my short torso

Posted by: AndrewMajor

I’ve gone back and forth in terms of deciding what to do with rehab (rigid/SS v fork/multi-speed) and finally decided to run two mountain bikes again. I’ll leave the V2 as a rigid SS and get back on it when my leg’s strong enough and run a short travel, multi-speed, FS bike when I’m first allowed back on the trails. I like the V2 how I run it, so that means I can use the FS bike as a mule for test parts. That’s where I am right now anyway. Have everything I need on hand except a frame and shock.

Hey Andrew, as someone who I think loves his rigid as much as you do yours and is still trying to recover from a "leg" injury, you're on the right path, short travel FS for sure. I started off on the Prime in the early days after my surgery when I could start hitting the trails and I managed some good long rides, when I look back, without much recovery time. Fast forward and I'm riding the rigid all the time, but it's a 2+ day recovery after for it and the knee itself isn't feeling better and better, then I rebuild the Phantom and ride that for a few weeks and whamo, knee is feeling better and stronger after each ride <1 day recovery, then I hop on the rigid for one, easy XC ride with a friend and next day, not good, 2+ days recovery and knee starting to go the other direction in terms of feeling.

I'd say see if you can find a Phantom or 111 to build on and ride, I think it'd give you enough cush and lots of fun.

Posted by: Vikb

I'm saving my Dr. Evil moments for when One Up calls me and asks if I will field test their prototype portable EMP. ;-)

Um, can you please give them my deets if they do, I would love to do some testing with one of them down here :-) Right now in the people I know who ride trails, it's easier to list of who hasn't got a moped than who's riding them :-( I've seriously considered making one myself and planting it on a trail with motion sensor and just let "nature" take it's course :-D LMAO

Posted by: Bikeryder85

I was wondering if I could ask the Collective on the mb-1 conundrum....I have actually been looking at getting two ss'able bikes (you can get two from Marino with one ship rate) to test out geo. This will hopefully work out to one frame to rule them all. It's been over a decade since I rode a SS full time...so this could be a learning experience. 

I guess my main questions have to do with Geo. I am currently on a hardtail with 402reach and 67° HA (I'm 5'6"). My idea was to try two bikes with very different fits...One with 430ish reach and one with 450ish. I live in a mellower terrain than you guys...more tight jank with short ups and downs...how slack is to slack? Where do the trade-offs begin?

BR85, good idea if you can swing it, but personally, from what you describe, your riding is a lot like mine and I think you'll enjoy the 430mm reach. As for HTA, going to say that I think 65 unsagged is the slackest you'd enjoy, probably a good compromise would be 65.5-66, depending on what amount of travel you're looking at pairing to it. For me, either way, I run the fork much stiffer on a HT than an FS, just don't like how much and easily thee HTA steepens up under compression, also why I prefer a shorter fork, 100-120mm, also, I can't "handle" more than that myself, not comfortably, all day as the rear suspension trying to match a good 100-120mm fork and what it can take. Definitely get sliding drop outs and experiment with your CS length, besides that sliding drop outs also let you change axle standards if you like just with a simple swap.

Posted by: fartymarty

Tashi - thanks.  m

Thank YOU, I may have found the inspirado to finally do my Chunky Flite due to this thread.

Posted by: Lynx

I'd say see if you can find a Phantom or 111 to build on and ride, I think it'd give you enough cush and lots of fun.

The used market is ridiculous and the anointed replacements for both those bikes have Trunnion shock mounting. I appreciate that's not a deal-breaker for many riders, and accept that your experience may vary, but it's a non-starter for me for a personal ride. 

There are other natural progenies to those, excellent, bikes from other manufacturers.

Posted by: AndrewMajor

Posted by: Lynx

I'd say see if you can find a Phantom or 111 to build on and ride, I think it'd give you enough cush and lots of fun.

The used market is ridiculous and the anointed replacements for both those bikes have Trunnion shock mounting. I appreciate that's not a deal-breaker for many riders, and accept that your experience may vary, but it's a non-starter for me for a personal ride. 

There are other natural progenies to those, excellent, bikes from other manufacturers.

Time to bring back the Rifty.

Lynx, 65 HA is perfect.  -2 / +2 gets you to 63-67 - DH to gravel.

Posted by: fartymarty

Lynx, 65 HA is perfect.  -2 / +2 gets you to 63-67 - DH to gravel.

Yeah, kind of got to thinking about anglesets after I posted and was thinking along the same lines, but still for me on NOT shore type terrain, I'd like to start more around 66.

Posted by: AndrewMajor

Posted by: Lynx

I'd say see if you can find a Phantom or 111 to build on and ride, I think it'd give you enough cush and lots of fun.

The used market is ridiculous and the anointed replacements for both those bikes have Trunnion shock mounting. I appreciate that's not a deal-breaker for many riders, and accept that your experience may vary, but it's a non-starter for me for a personal ride. 

There are other natural progenies to those, excellent, bikes from other manufacturers.

I was really speaking used, say either V1 or V2, not the new V3, but yeah, there's others from other manufacturers, just not many, well really any, that offer the adjustable/replaceable drop outs and the huge playing you can do with geo.

Do any of you have an angle adjust headset geometry calculator for changes to reach, stack, bb drop, based on the wheelbase, head tube length... of whatever you are starting with, and also calculate changes for fork travel and offset?

For the Works -1.5 degree I had, it increased front centre ~25 mm, dropped BB about 5 mm more, shortened reach and raised stack etc.

I used the Works -1.5 degree for 10 months (so I had more than enough chance to grow used to it), but when the bearings wore out I went back to the original neutral headset.  The only big difference was that my front wheel washed out much easier (I already ride low and forward xc racer style), a little more awkward keeping momentum for uphill switchbacks (but still do-able), and it didn't make me any braver down steep technical features (so all cons and no pros). So probably need to change fork offset and travel, stem length/rise, just -1 degree headset adjust, add or remove spacers and everything too, to keep the front centre I like or not too much longer (the chain stays are already 438mm). Just off the top of my head, I think 10 mm more fork travel, changing offset/rake from 51 to 44 mm, with a -1 degree headset, will result in ~12mm more front centre and little change to BB drop.

I did borrow a Fuel EX with only 10 mm more fork travel, and it did make me braver down steep rough features (even with similar tires), but didn't handle sharp corners as well. I think what I was feeling was that due to head angle, trail, slightly more travel, quality of travel, and/or heavier overall weight, that the front wheel rolled smoother and straighter over the rough edges and holes with less side-slippyniss and less sharp pitching forward feeling. And no, I am not willing to buy a different bike, or inject testosterone to grow bigger spiritual balls (I think it shrinks testicles anyway).