MEATengines 2022...

did Starling come through with an apology today?

Posted by: taprider

did Starling come through with an apology today?

It’s here.

Ok... since we went down the eMTB drain hole...may as well share this one.....

3 years ago after getting crushed by that driver and left for dead. While in the middle of trying to sort stuff out bike wise a local eMTB  type member of our mtb club started trying to tell me I needed to get a eMTB no matter what. Zero asking if could afford one, what actual injuries where, and so on. 

Wrong guy to try that with.  Pretty much annoyed the fuck out of me and wasn't anything I needed to be hearing. Still don't. Worked long and hard in 2019 to get out of that part of the hole with support of the veteran run gym was member of as well as a few others in the mtb club. Looking at it now going the easy way of eMTB would not have been a benefit to getting to this point. There has been alot of learning of various things that doing it  with a moto assist would have deprived me of learning.  Plus riding my hardtails it is part of the PTSI management plan.

Yep...2 weeks a go measuring out the old school DH race course was asked to create.

Funny  thing is the guy who pushed the eMTB thing is that last year rode more then he did with a broken body and better as well.  And it was completely unintended as basically barely acknowledge him as don't need more people telling me shit like that. 

Hate people telling me what I should get instead of asking what need or what needs to be worked around.

Hey guys, as a lurker of this thread, I have to comment on e-bikes. I think a lot of the hate comes from the mass adoption of the machines and the risk that poses to access, at least here in the USA. I have been riding long enough to remember when IMBA actually did good things, and what we fought hard to get back. There is an inherent fear of being lumped in with ATVs (again), something we fought hard to change. If that makes me a crotchety old "gatekeeper" then so be it. I will gladly fight to keep the trails we fought so hard for.

Then you have the "green" aspect as well. Lithium ion batteries are terrible, carbon is terrible, and  how can we as a community say we are about the environment (no more plastic!) But build something so toxic and wasteful. The industry can't live in both worlds. 

I get e-bikes for certain, limited use-cases....but the "bro-ped" culture is (in my opinion) a bad move for the industry. The mass adoption is one of the reasons I ended up here on NSMB (and Meatengines) as opposed to other sites. 

All this being said, I do look at each user on a case by case basis, and will be accepting of people who may need them (like the veteran who is managing his PTSD and couldn't do it without).

I guess I kind of veiw them as the powered cart at the grocery store...great that they are there for the people that need them...but I don't want one till I NEED one.

End rant.

Posted by: Endurimil

3 years ago after getting crushed by that driver and left for dead. 

I'm glad you were able to make an impressive recovery and get back to riding strong on your bicycle.

Posted by: Vikb

Posted by: Endurimil

3 years ago after getting crushed by that driver and left for dead. 

I'm glad you were able to make an impressive recovery and get back to riding strong on your bicycle.

Amen.

Posted by: Bikeryder85

All this being said, I do look at each user on a case by case basis, and will be accepting of people who may need them (like the veteran who is managing his PTSD and couldn't do it without).

I guess I kind of veiw them as the powered cart at the grocery store...great that they are there for the people that need them...but I don't want one till I NEED one.

Welcome!

I will say, for me as an individual, one of the things that was the genesis of MEATengines (I bought the URL a couple of years before I actually started the site) was a lot of folks pushing them, and indeed the 'just asking questions' types too, kept bringing up this flood of disabled or disadvantaged people that were going to ride these contraptions. I don't know, can veterans managing PTSD afford to buy and maintain an e-bike? Certainly, unlike the average North Vancouverite e-biker that I've served, I doubt they can spend freely thanks to the financial backing of massively escalating home equity. 

A quick search and it's clear that PTSD and homelessness in veterans are heavily correlated. 

------

I did have a really good laugh about your powered cart analogy. Mostly because I semi-regularly see a couple of MAMBers I know at the grocery store and now I'm deciding if I'm cheeky enough to point out the courtesy cart to them. 

The e-bikers I know, and I'd say this is true for 99% of those I've seen on the trails too but I'm not saying there aren't exceptions (for example, I know there are women who e-bike too), are able-bodied white dudes over 50 who wouldn't be caught dead in a powered cart in the grocery store. 

Further, I'll note that groceries are a necessity. If I'm choosing between eating and starving I'm going to take the cart every day. The absolutely best thing about being injured - and actually not the only good thing - is it has reinforced for me that as much as I love mountain biking, if I can't ride on my terms I can also very easily do something else. You'll see me hiking in the woods long before you'd see me on a MAMB. There's really not a 'NEED' case I can see. 

BUT, that's my opinion - indeed my derisive opinion - and you're 100% welcome to yours. 

Cheers!

I've run into quite a few able bodied 30-40 yearolds on BroPeds. Dirt bike/ATV access is limited in a lot of places so anyone that has a desired to BBRRRAAAPPP is at least considering a BroPed to scratch that itch closer to home.

Posted by: Endurimil

Ok... since we went down the eMTB drain hole...may as well share this one.....

3 years ago after getting crushed by that driver and left for dead....

Hate people telling me what I should get instead of asking what need or what needs to be worked around.

Two thumbs up for you for not going down the eMTB drain hole too

and another thumb (if possible) for still rock'n a 1998 Rocky Mtn vest

Posted by: AndrewMajor

Posted by: taprider

did Starling come through with an apology today?

It’s here.

hmm.

Another excuse for MAMBs is being time poor...  Most (probably all) of my riding mates have kids varying in age.  Those with older kids have more time therefore can ride more and can ride weekends during the days.  Those of us with "younger" kids ride nights and not during the weekend.  If I want I can ride every night from about 730 on.  Last week me and a mate did a 40 mile XC epic and got home at 1am (luckily it was Friday the next day).  For me being time poor doesn't hold any water.  You make time for what you want to do.

How about a concerted effort by us all to politely ignore/not respond to discussion of non meat engine content in this backwater corner of the internet? Maybe we ask VikB to redirect/relocate any discussion to a more relevant thread?

Posted by: GreyHead

How about a concerted effort by us all to politely ignore/not respond to discussion of non meat engine content in this backwater corner of the internet? Maybe we ask VikB to redirect/relocate any discussion to a more relevant thread?

I don’t think it’s fair to single out Vik, but I’ll second your suggestion otherwise. 

Thanks!

Andrew, Not singling Vik out, he's a moderator, maybe he can move threads...

Both sides of the moped debate seem to have arrived at their preferences internally and then scoured the world top to bottom for facts or factish suppositions to justify it.  Battery fires and trail org participation being examples.  No judgement- that’s how 90% of the justifications in the world came to be - but it might be helpful if we could be a little more straightforward about the real concerns we have.

For me personally, I believe in my soul that some human experiences need to be difficult to achieve.  Not because of any consequence - though those exist - but because overcoming challenge and striving for new and unique experiences is a fundamental human need.  And we already have roller coasters, dirt bikes, ski lifts, bike lifts, race tracks and a hundred other ways to get your adrenaline fix without having to provide your own propulsion.  Why is it so important to eradicate one of the last niches of exclusively human powered thrills?

The relentless drive to eliminate obstacles to any and every human experience is befuddling to me.  Soon they’ll be building a chairlift to the top of Everest and yelling “gatekeeper” at anyone who thinks this is missing the point.  They’ll be building roads to the top of every 14’er in North America and telling people that as long as the road is discreet they have nothing to complain about.  And yes, handicapped access will be used to justify it from the mouths of able bodied people who can’t wait to summit by car.

Of course I can and will continue to pursue challenges for myself like a mountaineer who chooses to climb Pikes Peak from the bottom. But please don’t tell me the crowds at the top take nothing away from the experience, and don’t tell me I’m obligated to support their presence at every peak.  And realize that whether the result is inevitable or not, the inexorable push to pave the peaks of human experience is a symptom of a cancer eating at humanity’s soul.  No, e-bikes don’t affect me any more or less than bikes, but that doesn’t mean I have to ignore what they represent or be silent about it.