MEATengines 2022...

Posted by: Blofeld

Cumberland water must be high octane; MEATengines has been moving fast lately! Perspectives was an interesting piece, but such a tease. Is there a chance we can get the deleted geometry content back somehow? I’m hoping it included geometry charts for the whole 3-model/6-size lineup. It’s the kind of work that encourages life to imitate art. :-)

It's been a bit of an experiment, to be honest. Readership went up quite a bit during the Cumberlandworx series and I have a backlog of material, plus lots of new ideas, now that I'm on the bike again, that definitely isn't NSMB content so I figured with having some extra time in the summer I'd run with it. It's been a real boost how well it's been received actually - so thank you.

As to geometry charts, I'm taking a little break from the numbers side other than a piece about flat pedals that I'm currently working on for NSMB. I've been told a few too many times lately that I'm being "preachy," which runs counter to my goal in everything I write about bikes - Inspire, Inform, Entertain. I mean the running jokes about single-speed and rigid fork evangelism aside stuff like chainstay length really doesn't matter. I'm passionate about my experiences and I really believe in the idea of a balanced bicycle but if some dude who's 6'9" tall loves his custom rig with a 63° HTA, 540mm Reach, and 411mm chainstays then first and foremost I think that's rad. That doesn't stop me from wondering how it would ride with 500mm stays - but nerds are going to nerd.

What exactly I'm doing with MEATengines is a daily conversation around the house as it would require a significant commitment on my part to keep the content quantity, uniqueness (and quality if I can say so) up to snuff with posting more than the ~ once to twice a week I normally average once we come to September. I have some series, including the long-promised Cogs In The Machine and Tunnel Talk that I'd really like to start/keep doing regularly as well as a series I'm trying to get off the ground about other people's rigid and/or single-speed rigs. I've also been working for way too long on the last piece I'm ever going to write about e-bikes which might go live at some point.

I'd really like MEATengines to be a community for folks that are committed to the joy of powering a bicycle - mountain bicycle or otherwise - under their own, literal, steam. Not in the negative 'photographs steal your soul' way that battery-powered-everything makes me, and I know others, feel now but more of a positive appreciation for the most beautiful of machines. Don't get me wrong, M.E. would have a f***ing long way to go between my personal ramblings and what I just typed but one of my hobbies is starring at clouds and letting my imagination run wild.

.........

P.S. The water is amazing. With the caveat that I generally like water straight from the tap, Cumberland does have the best tap water I've tasted anywhere. The Clairebarian was crazy about it. Must be all the toadlets living in it?!

Andrew - is there a way of getting the ME comments section back?  Then the community could develop and it could run as it's own thing or even own website.  This thread is great and all but it was only ever meant to be temporary until ME comments were back.  It does  ammuse me that it's a top ranking NSMB forum thread.

Although I wouldn't say no to more ME content I think 1 quality post a week with a forum for discussion to ensue is all we need. Trying to generate too much content doesn't really add anything to the reader experience past a certain point. I would also prefer a sustainable level of regular quality content than a death march of higher volume that then led to burn out/reduced content/reduced quality. The time between posts allows for thought and discussion to occur before the next post drops.

Vik - I would even take a half though out idea that need further discussion / exploration / development (through the comments section) to complete the thinking and arrive at a conclusion / or not...

But I agree that if content is too regular it doesn't give sufficient time for discussion.  Sometimes you need to mull things over for a day or so and see where you stand.

This is another reason to get the ME comments section back - then at least you can revisit a discussion and keep track of it - unlike on this thread which tends to stay current.

Posted by: fartymarty

This is another reason to get the ME comments section back - then at least you can revisit a discussion and keep track of it - unlike on this thread which tends to stay current.

Yes no argument a comment section would be nice or a ME forum where each article can have its own thread. In theory we can do the later option here, but it feels a bit weird to be MEing on NSMB.

Posted by: Vikb

Posted by: fartymarty

This is another reason to get the ME comments section back - then at least you can revisit a discussion and keep track of it - unlike on this thread which tends to stay current.

Yes no argument a comment section would be nice or a ME forum where each article can have its own thread. In theory we can do the later option here, but it feels a bit weird to be MEing on NSMB.

I’ve talked to GoDaddy a number of times (which has always been a waste of time) and there’s no way to do it using their software. That would mean migrating the site to Wordpress (or another CMS). Pretty much any other system can easily be integrated with Disqus. 

Most folks I talked to said a better way to do things than that is to have a separate forum and just link from each piece to a specific discussion topic. 

It’s something that’s in the back of my mind.

Posted by: Vikb

Although I wouldn't say no to more ME content I think 1 quality post a week with a forum for discussion to ensue is all we need. Trying to generate too much content doesn't really add anything to the reader experience past a certain point. I would also prefer a sustainable level of regular quality content than a death march of higher volume that then led to burn out/reduced content/reduced quality. The time between posts allows for thought and discussion to occur before the next post drops.

Like I said, it was an experiment and the results were interesting. Come September it’s certainly not sustainable and I’m not looking to spin my wheels. But it’s cool to think (know?) that ME could have traction as a daily.

Definitely appreciate everyone’s $0.02!

Posted by: AndrewMajor

As to geometry charts, I'm taking a little break from the numbers side other than a piece about flat pedals that I'm currently working on for NSMB. I've been told a few too many times lately that I'm being "preachy," which runs counter to my goal in everything I write about bikes - Inspire, Inform, Entertain. I mean the running jokes about single-speed and rigid fork evangelism aside stuff like chainstay length really doesn't matter. I'm passionate about my experiences and I really believe in the idea of a balanced bicycle but if some dude who's 6'9" tall loves his custom rig with a 63° HTA, 540mm Reach, and 411mm chainstays then first and foremost I think that's rad. That doesn't stop me from wondering how it would ride with 500mm stays - but nerds are going to nerd.

Nerd out? Yep, I sure will! 

As for being preachy, I feel like having measurements to back up claims and impressions makes inspireformtainment easier to digest. Maybe your hypothetical giant is waiting for his second Waltly ATB and wouldn’t have ordered the first one with such short stays if they’d had some specific data points as input? I personally have found value in the details and numbers you post, although maybe I’m in the minority. It is clear that the views of everyone here are shaped by the conditions of their trails and their bodies. It is fun to try to extrapolate, but I don’t think I can even convince myself of it’s importance beyond the entertainment value! I guess I do get annoyed when I read something like enduro-mtb and EVERY review has the same four sentences about rear rotors needing to be 220s for trail bikes even when they haven’t caused any specific problems, so maybe there’s even a limit to my own number cravings.

Good luck with the ME format. If I tried to build up a site with my own interests in mind it would probably end up looking like a shared Google spreadsheet, so you do you! I would also prefer embedded comments on the ME site, but I understand that monetizing and running the whole program that way could be a lot of work.

Somewhat off topic, but on ME brand I was riding with a buddy this week and we were chatting about how mountain biking has changed from a rugged outdoor adventure sport to golf....complete with the motorized carts! And we both have some interest in trail running....although we like MTBing more...the trail running community these days feels more like "our people" than what's going on in mountain biking. The effort/challenge/skill is "the" draw. Being outside moving around uphill and downhill under your own power is what's appreciated.  As you get older you run slower and less far. Then you walk a bit and maybe end up hiking most of the time. Nobody is excitedly talking about the new powered exo-suits that will let you climb faster with 25% effort, get trail laps done twice as fast or turbo charge your weekly mileage. You don't see people loading up a Taco with runners at the trailhead so they can shuttle some sweet downhill trail laps. 

It makes me feel sad to write that, but that's how it seems to me.

On being preachy I think extoling the virtues of things that make your MTB riding better is 100% a good idea. I have learned a lot and been inspired by many people over the years who have posted their thoughts in that regard. Where I have seen this go off the rails is when someone assumes/decides that if X works great for them than it must be The Right Answer For Everyone. MTBing is a complex activity and there are so many different kinds of people riding so many different kinds of terrain that nailing down something that works best for all/most of them is hard. OTOH saying I love X and here is why leaves the topic open for everyone to consider and decide if it might be good for them as well.

Andrew and I have chatted about CS length a few times. He's pro long and I'm pro short. I have no doubt he's right that long works better for him. I also know through a bunch of trial and error that shorter works better for me. I was curious about longer CS, partially because a bunch of folks like Andrew said positive things about them, and my experiments were a flop. I have a better handle on what's going on and even have a theory about why there is such a difference of opinion. But, ultimately what it comes down to is there is no point for me to try and convince anyone in particular they should go longer or shorter on their CS.

When I am reading bikey stuff online what really intrigues me is when I see someone I know rides a bunch, rides well on challenging terrain and is doing something different than I do. I don't always take action, but I'll ponder the topic and I have made some useful improvements to my riding. Even when stuff fails, like the longer CS, learning what you don't like and why is very useful.

Posted by: Vikb

Somewhat off topic, but on ME brand I was riding with a buddy this week and we were chatting about how mountain biking has changed from a rugged outdoor adventure sport to golf....complete with the motorized carts!

Good analogy! I often refer to machine made blue trails as “cart paths”. Much larger investments in their “first real bike” and trail building nowadays probably does get a beginner up and having fun sooner, at least compared to the fat-tired road bikes and janky hiking trails that I started with. It’s kinda sad though when these riders don’t ever get off the cart paths and even more so when they add a motor for more of the same.

Posted by: Blofeld

machine made blue trails as “cart paths”.

Blue flow trails bore me and they're way more risk than red / black (black / double black in north america) tech trails. Give me steep, slow and techy any day on any bike (rigid or suspended).

Posted by: Vikb

it feels a bit weird to be MEing on NSMB.

Agreed, the only reason I set it up was to have a place to comment / discuss but it's weird.  I wonder how many non ME readers have found this thread?

Posted by: fartymarty

Posted by: Vikb

it feels a bit weird to be MEing on NSMB.

Agreed, the only reason I set it up was to have a place to comment / discuss but it's weird.  I wonder how many non ME readers have found this thread?

I wasn't complaining about this thread. It's great. Thanks for thinking about it. I meant taking over a sub-forum on NSMB with a thread per ME post would be a bit weird. Like a human powered bike weirdo occupation! ;-)