MEATengines 2022...

Once the market develops I would expect motorcycle shops to happily sell/service electric mountain motos with throttles and pegs or throttles and vestigial pedals. Keeping things looking electric pedal assist mountain bike-ish enough to avoid getting noticed too easily. LBS can keep their service options strictly pedalec/moped or not it won't prevent the shift to throttles.

Once you let motors on the trails it is hard to manage the obvious changes that will happen to the tech. It's not like it's practical to have cops at the trailhead inspecting machines for compliance and issuing tickets. In the past it was a social pressure thing. Show up on a motorized contraption and the mountain bikers/hikers would stink eye you into submission. 

However, once you let in one type of motorized machine the people astride them don't really have the moral authority to say "Hell no!" to someone else on a similar, but slightly different machine.  While I would have been [and was] "that guy" and told e-bikers the can't ride these human powered trails I'm not going to spend my time policing which variety of electric motorized dirt bike/e-bike/moped is legal and what isn't. If we as a community are now saying partying in the forest with motors on biking/hiking trails is cool then so be it.

I will laugh really really hard if an e-biker ever sits down next to me at the brewery in Cumby and complains bitterly about some dude on an unrestricted electric bike with a throttle shredding uphill past them. Life can be cruel sometimes.

I will say, now that the cats are out of the bag and fully bred into the local population, it’s not something I think about much anymore.

I mean, I still grind at those odd interactions with the assholes who think money + (motor)power = the poors should jump out of the way when they come whirring up behind (no matter how narrow and bench-cut the single track) but on most rides it’s parallel play like interacting with runners or hikers.

I find it’s much more fun to put energy into pumping what’s awesome about (me-powered) mountain biking to me - including how beautifully self-serviceable a meat-powered bicycle can be and how rewarding it is to power yourself places.

None of this changes the fact, for me, that e-bikes are fantastic car replacements and shitty bicycle replacements. But it’s also been pointed out that I should disclose my potential bias in that buying a MAMB isn’t an economic reality for me.

I'm sure all this has been said a million times by a million people in this overall line of discussion, but I have such mixed feelings about the exclusion of "MAMBs". Here in the SF Bay area most of my trails ban eMTBs, though I see plenty of people ignore these restrictions. (Apparently the presereves are actively considering whether to lift them.) I have heard stories of rangers handing out tickets at Demo, but I've seen plenty of e-bikers there regardless.

I have a problem with people who ignore the rules (but that's not limited to e-bikers). I have a problem with people who are rude (but that's not limited to e-bikers). I have a problem with loud whining motors (but my rear hub is a fairly loud Hope Pro4). And I recognize a) legitimate physical reasons to have an assisted bike and b) that riding one could be a lot of fun.

Any gatekeeping is hard to justify on those grounds. But surely if there are hiking only trails, and hiking+equestrian trails, there can be bike trails and bike+MAMB trails, when the trail can handle faster use/more use/passing? If people don't follow the rules that is their problem. But I do wonder if everything has to be opened to everyone.

There are considerate people who will have fun where it is allowed, if there's enough trail infrastructure. I try to respect trail signs, though even I have made exceptions. We can't prevent all bad actors. Is there still a place for "well, here you're not supposed to ride those, but we're just going to trust you."? Instead of just saying, officially, that anything goes?

One of the worst excuses I have heard to justify e-biking, is that they help regulate body temperature so that you don't sweat in the winter time.

I replied that I am the wrong person to talk to about that...

however, I have nearly frozen to death and had to take a knife to cut the liner away from the outer of my "breathable water proof" jacket

I am glad that we’re ~ past the point where people feel they need to make an excuse to ride a MAMB. It’s faster & easier. Done.

Posted by: AndrewMajor

Can you have a brace without the bar getting harsh from the flex zone being massively reduced?! Custom steel bars point to no. 

The Hunters have a sweeter sweep spot (haha) for me.

Can confirm Hunters ride very nice and have a really comfortable sweep. The Ergotec also rides really nice even smoother I’d say but only a 12deg still the only one of its kind I’m aware off though.

Posted by: geraldooka

Can confirm Hunters ride very nice and have a really comfortable sweep.

Let there be no doubt that I lust to mount some high-rise silver Hunters into the silver NSB Overlord stem on my Walt V2 and ride off into the mountains…

Maybe a little gift to myself when I can pedal again!

I should mention I put the 30x 16 on top of the Hunter 15 and despite the small 1deg difference the difference in final hand position is significant (about 15mm). The 30x starts it’s sweep a bit narrower which would partially account for that.

Posted by: geraldooka

I should mention I put the 30x 16 on top of the Hunter 15 and despite the small 1deg difference the difference in final hand position is significant (about 15mm). The 30x starts it’s sweep a bit narrower which would partially account for that.

So your wrists are at a similar angle but you’d need a 15mm longer stem for your hands to be in the same position with the SQLab to where they sit now with the Hunter?

That’s a big difference!

Posted by: AndrewMajor

Posted by: geraldooka

Can confirm Hunters ride very nice and have a really comfortable sweep.

Let there be no doubt that I lust to mount some high-rise silver Hunters into the silver NSB Overlord stem on my Walt V2 and ride off into the mountains…

Maybe a little gift to myself when I can pedal again!

Andrew, buy yourself some Ergotecs and some 60, 120, 240 and 600 grit sand paper and metal polish.  You'll get silver bars in about 3 hours.  I did this with mine.

Posted by: geraldooka

Posted by: AndrewMajor

Can you have a brace without the bar getting harsh from the flex zone being massively reduced?! Custom steel bars point to no. 

The Hunters have a sweeter sweep spot (haha) for me.

Can confirm Hunters ride very nice and have a really comfortable sweep. The Ergotec also rides really nice even smoother I’d say but only a 12deg still the only one of its kind I’m aware off though.

Interesting that you find the Ergotec smoother.  I've got Ergotecs 12s and SQ 16s and the SQ have more flex.

Re ride feel I was comparing the 30x to the Hunter. The Ergotec vs the 30x I’m not as sure, the 30x alloy is pretty nice too, similar I’d say.

The carbon fibre 30x is a very different beast.

Re bar sweep I have the Hunter mounted on my sons commuter but did my best to illustrate with a pic I don’t know if you’d need that much stem since I was measuring at the bar end but here’s a couple of crappy pics.

https://flic.kr/p/2n8415q

https://flic.kr/p/2n84pWv

Since I like to ride medium/large frames, but also want an upright seated position without too steep a STA bars with a more rearward hand position for their sweep are my friend.

Posted by: geraldooka

Re ride feel I was comparing the 30x to the Hunter. The Ergotec vs the 30x I’m not as sure, the 30x alloy is pretty nice too, similar I’d say.

The carbon fibre 30x is a very different beast.

Re bar sweep I have the Hunter mounted on my sons commuter but did my best to illustrate with a pic I don’t know if you’d need that much stem since I was measuring at the bar end but here’s a couple of crappy pics.

https://flic.kr/p/2n8415q

https://flic.kr/p/2n84pWv