I just replaced one of those two weeks ago and it’s already gone. Sigh.
MEATengines 2022...
Posted by: AndrewMajor
Posted by: ThadTheRad
Am I remembering correctly of a MEATengines post during peak of bike part shortages about the rarity of SRAM self extracting crank caps? Last weekend I went out for a little hike to scout out snowmelting progress on the most popular trail near me, and lo and behold the one piece of trail litter I discovered was a SRAM Dub self extracting cap.
HA! Yes, Don't Cap Yourself.
Turns out our friend Will up at Republic had hoarded them all up like toilet paper. He sent me a photo of the nice pile of them.
Aha, wonderful! That post was the first thing I thought of when I recognized it's distinct shape embedded in the moist soil.
I immediately stashed it away in a dark corner of my local co-op, patiently waiting for the day that someone comes in with theirs missing and I can dart back into the staff room to grab it, making sure to let them know how lucky they are that we had one in the shop. As the nature of a bicycle co-op or DIY shop is more suited to older bikes with more ubiquitous and recyclable componentry, the satisfaction of not having to tell someone that we do not have any of whatever propriety and hyperspecific part they need and will need to source a new item (likely with some degree of scarcity these days) for their modern mountain bike component is a deeply satisfying and overwhelmingly rare experience.
Last edited by: ThadTheRad on May 11, 2022, 1:38 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Posted by: Endurimil
I'll just leave this here.
Always props for Yehuda.
Posted by: snowsnake
I just replaced one of those two weeks ago and it’s already gone. Sigh.
First, you have to:
.JPG/:/cr=t:0%25,l:0%25,w:100%25,h:100%25/rs=w:1280))
And then you have to:
.JPG/:/cr=t:0%25,l:0%25,w:100%25,h:100%25/rs=w:1280))
And I'm not saying what's-what but this is a very common, well-known, issue so in the location that I was previously wrenching out of we were doing this to every new bike on the floor. The fact SRAM doesn't Loctite from the factory (which I believe they originally did) isn't great, but I think the fact that shops aren't fixing the problem as part of their bike builds is worse.
Last edited by: AndrewMajor on May 11, 2022, 9:01 p.m., edited 2 times in total.
That pin spanner looks like a much nicer tool for the job than the circlip pliers I'd be using.
Posted by: velocipedestrian
That pin spanner looks like a much nicer tool for the job than the circlip pliers I'd be using.
I was just zooming in on those to see if I could track one down.
Posted by: velocipedestrian
That pin spanner looks like a much nicer tool for the job than the circlip pliers I'd be using.
Cyclus makes a lot of nice tools (and brands nice tools too - the Knipex I use are Cyclus branded). I’ve had these for many years and they’re awesome.
Even compared to the spanners I’ve used in most shops these are rad.
Posted by: AndrewMajor
The fact SRAM doesn't Loctite from the factory (which I believe they originally did) isn't great, but I think the fact that shops aren't fixing the problem as part of their bike builds is worse.
I understand the sentiment, but doing something poorly and then expecting your downstream dealers to expend time/$$ fixing the problem is not excusable. Especially in an environment where those dealers are not earning great margins. The blame rests squarely with SRAM on this. The are a sophisticated company that can conduct a root cause failure analysis and address the problem when the crank is assembled.
Posted by: Vikb
Posted by: AndrewMajor
The fact SRAM doesn't Loctite from the factory (which I believe they originally did) isn't great, but I think the fact that shops aren't fixing the problem as part of their bike builds is worse.
I understand the sentiment, but doing something poorly and then expecting your downstream dealers to expend time/$$ fixing the problem is not excusable. Especially in an environment where those dealers are not earning great margins. The blame rests squarely with SRAM on this. The are a sophisticated company that can conduct a root cause failure analysis and address the problem when the crank is assembled.
Where I’ll disagree is that by the time stuff like this is noticed so many units have been made/installed/shipped that even if SRAM changes their process after the first complaint it can take a long time for the change to be noticed.
You could argue that they should send out a tech bulletin but the simple fact is that every shop knows this is an issue. So whether SRAM has done enough to fix it or not, dealers need to sort these bikes before they sell them (and clearly aren’t).
Posted by: AndrewMajor
Posted by: Vikb
Posted by: AndrewMajor
The fact SRAM doesn't Loctite from the factory (which I believe they originally did) isn't great, but I think the fact that shops aren't fixing the problem as part of their bike builds is worse.
I understand the sentiment, but doing something poorly and then expecting your downstream dealers to expend time/$$ fixing the problem is not excusable. Especially in an environment where those dealers are not earning great margins. The blame rests squarely with SRAM on this. The are a sophisticated company that can conduct a root cause failure analysis and address the problem when the crank is assembled.
Where I’ll disagree is that by the time stuff like this is noticed so many units have been made/installed/shipped that even if SRAM changes their process after the first complaint it can take a long time for the change to be noticed.
You could argue that they should send out a tech bulletin but the simple fact is that every shop knows this is an issue. So whether SRAM has done enough to fix it or not, dealers need to sort these bikes before they sell them (and clearly aren’t).
I fully agree with Andrew. This should be added to every bike shop check list, as it's a problem with 50% of the bikes they sell.
I haven't been lucky enough to find one trail-side, so I had to buy one from Steed when mine fell out. And of course, Sram only sell it in a package, together with the huge steel bolt that holds the crank arm on, which NEVER goes missing EVER.
Posted by: mammal
And of course, Sram only sell it in a package, together with the huge steel bolt that holds the crank arm on, which NEVER goes missing EVER.
Another reason I'd keep pointing the finger at SRAM and not a LBS. If you know you have a manufacturing problem with a common product and that results in lost parts for your customers & extra work for your dealers it would behoove you to provide said dealers with a bag of free parts to provide as replacements to minimize the hassle for everyone downstream of the cause of the problem.
Posted by: Vikb
Another reason I'd keep pointing the finger at SRAM and not a LBS. If you know you have a manufacturing problem with a common product and that results in lost parts for your customers & extra work for your dealers it would behoove you to provide said dealers with a bag of free parts to provide as replacements to minimize the hassle for everyone downstream of the cause of the problem.
Sram shouldn't be absolved of blame, but the shop definitely shouldn't ignore the issue when they ALL know about it. It takes less than 5min to fix.
The real question to me is:
Do any of SRAM’s competitors have this problem?
If no, then it’s a SRAM issue and they should freakin fix it if they want to be competitive. There’s a reason I choose Shimano.
Also: Loctite comes in a stick?!?!
Posted by: tashi
The real question to me is:
Do any of SRAM’s competitors have this problem?
If no, then it’s a SRAM issue and they should freakin fix it if they want to be competitive. There’s a reason I choose Shimano.
Also: Loctite comes in a stick?!?!
FSA (and therefore Cannondale) has exactly the same issue and I'd say anecdotally it occurs at a similar rate - there are just a lot less of the cranks around. I pulled mine and Loctited them just as with the SRAM cranks.
I've seen RaceFace Cinch cranks missing their extractor caps but at a much lower rate. They thread in deeper and can be tightened firmer using the 16mm hex than with pin spanner a la SRAM/FSA.
Shimano was the way to go in the days of 4/104. They're assholes for the number of different BCDs they introduced (was working on a bike today with their 4/96 cranks). When I look at how many chainring SKUs exist because of Shimano's misadventures it makes me grind my teeth. Then there's the bullshit that their direct mount cranks didn't use any number of legacy tools for chainring mounting. On top of that, the fact they didn't design proper clearance into the arms and so are making multiple spindle lengths (instead of doing offset with chainrings) wounds me personally.
I can't see any reason to buy a Shimano crankset over an Aeffect R if you want a 24mm spindle?!
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Loctite in a stick is awesome. Liquid is cheaper for shop use and it's not a big deal if you're prepping a number of spokes and bolts at once, but at home the stick is quick.
Posted by: mammal
Posted by: Vikb
Another reason I'd keep pointing the finger at SRAM and not a LBS. If you know you have a manufacturing problem with a common product and that results in lost parts for your customers & extra work for your dealers it would behoove you to provide said dealers with a bag of free parts to provide as replacements to minimize the hassle for everyone downstream of the cause of the problem.
Sram shouldn't be absolved of blame, but the shop definitely shouldn't ignore the issue when they ALL know about it. It takes less than 5min to fix.
I'm not absolving anyone of blame. It's 100% SRAM's fault that these caps aren't Loctited in place. And, it's 100% the shop's fault for not doing something about a known issue any time they're building a new bike or a bike comes in for service with a SRAM crankset. I agree it would be ideal if the caps were sold on their own. I don't agree with free replacements because I dislike anything that creates precedence that if sh*t comes loose and falls off your bike you get a freebie.
At the end of the day, SRAM is not installing these cranks. They're being installed at an assembly plant (or at a shop). Assembly plants vary in quality and it behooves shops to check every bolt as part of the build process - these extracting caps are low-hanging fruit. Unfortunately, too many bike shops suck - just do the twist at any trail head and it's quickly evident.
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In terms of the time investment, there are a lot of steps to doing a proper job assembling a bike from removing the dork disc, to checking spoke tension, to converting the tires to tubeless (if they come with tubes), to shortening housing length if they're too long from the factory, and often (at least) lever bleeding the brakes. Loctiting an extracting cap is really not a big deal compared to those other jobs.
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