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MEAT Engines 2023...

Sept. 25, 2023, 12:05 p.m.
Posts: 966
Joined: March 16, 2017

Posted by: AndrewMajor

Posted by: Vikb

Posted by: AndrewMajor

They have a bunch of ~ bike parts so they’re basically mountain bicycles right?

Ya. I mean they are only wrist-assist. They don't move without a human turning a bike part.

The important thing to remember, Vik, is that it's all about education and courtesy. There were jerks riding muscle bikes long before electric motors were introduced to the equation, and there were jerks riding Class-1 BroPeds long before the mini-e-motos started showing up. Trail organizations just need to get on signage right away. Folks will definitely obey clear directional signage just like they currently follow clear signage denoting where e-MTBs are not welcome. Folks will absolutely slow down and yield the trails to other users, just like they do now. 

Okay, yes, in the wrong hands, these more powerful pedal-free mountain bicycles could be an issue - faster speeds, more user interactions per hour - but the horse is already out of the barn so instead of whining about it and being an elitist gate-keeper get busy adapting how you use rider-built trail infrastructure to accommodate this new branch of mountain bicycling.

The concerning thing no one ever talks about is the potential fuel for those who Sierra Club types who want bikes banned from the woods. I am old enough to remember the late 1980's when groups like the Sierra Club used Snake Oil level science to get mtb's banned from or tried to from the woods. One their big talking points was...." It has a chain and cogs therefore it is motorized and must be banned". Reality this thinking has been ingrained in various staffers in the various land management agencies for decades. There are still those types out there. And with the current regression of people's mindsets where in certain areas things when it comes to access are going backwards. It should not be considered a possibility this whole argument could return and with the internet much worse.

I have seen an area that till 3-4 years ago was great for meat engine mtb's be lost because the land manager who took over from the preceding one is anti bike.

Sept. 25, 2023, 6:11 p.m.
Posts: 2539
Joined: April 25, 2003

I mean, I’ve brought that risk up in the past. I doubt I’m the only one.

Sept. 25, 2023, 7:59 p.m.
Posts: 92
Joined: June 9, 2017

"It has a chain and cogs therefore it is motorized and must be banned"

If we're talking about capital-W-Wilderness Act stuff, the verbiage is "mechanized". And its an intensely complicated issue, for a variety of reasons. 

I do see e-bikes as a real concern for access in some areas, but I'm honestly less concerned about e-bikes creating access challenges than the explosion in mountain biking as a whole, and just people generally being narcissistic, entitled..... nevermind. If you don't have anything nice to say...

Sept. 25, 2023, 10:16 p.m.
Posts: 747
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

Two guys on sur-rons blew past me heading up Hyannis trail on Sunday generally riding like assholes, weaving around the usual Sunday assortment of kids on run bikes, strollers, etc. Just generally causing havoc. I was literally embarrassed to be there on a bike in the wake of them. 

I agree with the general narcissism comment, but bikes like sur-rons open up a whole new level of trail dickhead, imo. Just goes to show you give people an inch, they'll take a mile. We point at ebikes as the harbinger of sur-rons and other electric motorbike bullshit, but I suppose hikers would point at mountain bikes as the harbinger of all of it, and I guess they'd have a point. It gets depressing if I think about it too much...

Sept. 26, 2023, 3:45 a.m.
Posts: 1090
Joined: Aug. 13, 2017

I find a similar thing with e cars - it's like the drivers don't think it will hurt if they hit you because their car is electric... as a result they drive like assholes.... or maybe it's more about the "entitled" nature of the drivers.

Sept. 26, 2023, 4:02 a.m.
Posts: 772
Joined: Feb. 28, 2017

Posted by: Kenny

Two guys on sur-rons blew past me heading up Hyannis trail on Sunday generally riding like assholes, weaving around the usual Sunday assortment of kids on run bikes, strollers, etc. Just generally causing havoc. I was literally embarrassed to be there on a bike in the wake of them. 

I agree with the general narcissism comment, but bikes like sur-rons open up a whole new level of trail dickhead, imo. Just goes to show you give people an inch, they'll take a mile. We point at ebikes as the harbinger of sur-rons and other electric motorbike bullshit, but I suppose hikers would point at mountain bikes as the harbinger of all of it, and I guess they'd have a point. It gets depressing if I think about it too much...

I’d guess we saw the same Surrons. They slowed for my group (with kids). 

The fact that mountain biking was also a human-powered-only activity was the dam. 

If Vik’s powered exoskeletons for hikers and runners will just hit the market for mass adoption soon we’ll be back on equal footing.

Sept. 26, 2023, 4:03 a.m.
Posts: 772
Joined: Feb. 28, 2017

Posted by: fartymarty

I find a similar thing with e cars - it's like the drivers don't think it will hurt if they hit you because their car is electric... as a result they drive like assholes.... or maybe it's more about the "entitled" nature of the drivers.

I have been 4-way-stop double-tapped in my car and on my bike so many times lately.

Writing a little piece about it but just a bit behind at the moment.


 Last edited by: AndrewMajor on Sept. 26, 2023, 5:32 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Sept. 26, 2023, 6:30 a.m.
Posts: 18790
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

Posted by: fartymarty

I find a similar thing with e cars - it's like the drivers don't think it will hurt if they hit you because their car is electric... as a result they drive like assholes.... or maybe it's more about the "entitled" nature of the drivers.

Or is it that you simply don’t hear them coming?

Sept. 26, 2023, 6:35 a.m.
Posts: 2307
Joined: Sept. 10, 2012

Posted by: AndrewMajor

If Vik’s powered exoskeletons for hikers and runners will just hit the market for mass adoption soon we’ll be back on equal footing.

https://youtu.be/uj4G9wmwCNI

Pre-Orders are open! Much cheaper than an e-bike. Same idea. You, but MOAR!!!

https://www.hypershell.cc/

Sept. 26, 2023, 6:50 a.m.
Posts: 425
Joined: Jan. 21, 2013

Can’t wait for something else to do my walking for me. Just carry my bloated carcass around for selfies. Finally we are really making the most of technology.

Sept. 26, 2023, 6:55 a.m.
Posts: 3155
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: cooperquinn

I do see e-bikes as a real concern for access in some areas, but I'm honestly less concerned about e-bikes creating access challenges than the explosion in mountain biking as a whole, and just people generally being narcissistic, entitled..... nevermind. If you don't have anything nice to say...

It's crazy how so few people want to give this point serious thought.

Sept. 26, 2023, 6:59 a.m.
Posts: 2307
Joined: Sept. 10, 2012

In terms of trail access where I live I don't see ebikes getting trails closed per say, but I certainly could see some trails getting set aside exclusively for walkers/runners/dogs. There was always some tension between riders and peds on certain trails closer to town, but now that everyone can ride at Olympic level power/speeds, even uphill, the problem will be exacerbated. Assuming it happens that won't be a ton of trails as the range of folks on feet is [for the most part] fairly low. 

Other places that have more delicate land access issues may see more serious changes due to ebikes. There is nothing stopping the Rise of the Machine so we won't have to theorize for too long.

Sept. 26, 2023, 7:34 a.m.
Posts: 1090
Joined: Aug. 13, 2017

Posted by: AndrewMajor

I have been 4-way-stop double-tapped in my car and on my bike so many times lately.

Writing a little piece about it but just a bit behind at the moment.

4-way-stop double-tapped?

Sept. 26, 2023, 7:36 a.m.
Posts: 1090
Joined: Aug. 13, 2017

Posted by: heckler

Posted by: fartymarty

I find a similar thing with e cars - it's like the drivers don't think it will hurt if they hit you because their car is electric... as a result they drive like assholes.... or maybe it's more about the "entitled" nature of the drivers.

Or is it that you simply don’t hear them coming?

I see them long before I hear them but maybe it's the lack of engine noise and gear changing that makes their speed less obvious to their drivers.

Sept. 26, 2023, 8:14 a.m.
Posts: 2539
Joined: April 25, 2003

Posted by: AndrewMajor

The fact that mountain biking was also a human-powered-only activity was the dam.

To us it was the dam.

To hikers who feared motos taking over  it was clear that the dam was inadequate.

Which it seems they may have been right about.

“The industry” may need to wake up to this threat (to their bottom line) at some point.


 Last edited by: tashi on Sept. 26, 2023, 8:15 a.m., edited 1 time in total.

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