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MEAT Engines 2023...

Sept. 24, 2023, 3:55 p.m.
Posts: 772
Joined: Feb. 28, 2017

Posted by: Vikb

Posted by: velocipedestrian 

I'm sure a gloomy prophesy could be written drawing parallels with ebikes and trails.

I was running up our climbing trail on Thursday when an ebike came past me at ~30kph riding the limiter. I jumped to the edge of the trail to get out of the way. I'm aware of ebike speeds intellectually, but it was still a bit of a shocker because that's several times faster than a decent climber on a MEATgrinder. I was thinking "welcome to the future".

This afternoon when The Clairebarian and I bumped out on to the very high traffic multi-use gravel double-track back to our car two fellas passed us on electric mini-motos. They slowed right down and said hello - interaction wise it was all good - but they accelerated instantly afterwards… those things can easily hit 70km/h+.

They have a bunch of ~ bike parts so they’re basically mountain bicycles right?

Sept. 24, 2023, 4:01 p.m.
Posts: 2307
Joined: Sept. 10, 2012

Posted by: AndrewMajor

They have a bunch of ~ bike parts so they’re basically mountain bicycles right?

Ya. I mean they are only wrist-assist. They don't move without a human turning a bike part.

Sept. 24, 2023, 4:58 p.m.
Posts: 772
Joined: Feb. 28, 2017

Posted by: Vikb

Posted by: AndrewMajor

They have a bunch of ~ bike parts so they’re basically mountain bicycles right?

Ya. I mean they are only wrist-assist. They don't move without a human turning a bike part.

The important thing to remember, Vik, is that it's all about education and courtesy. There were jerks riding muscle bikes long before electric motors were introduced to the equation, and there were jerks riding Class-1 BroPeds long before the mini-e-motos started showing up. Trail organizations just need to get on signage right away. Folks will definitely obey clear directional signage just like they currently follow clear signage denoting where e-MTBs are not welcome. Folks will absolutely slow down and yield the trails to other users, just like they do now. 

Okay, yes, in the wrong hands, these more powerful pedal-free mountain bicycles could be an issue - faster speeds, more user interactions per hour - but the horse is already out of the barn so instead of whining about it and being an elitist gate-keeper get busy adapting how you use rider-built trail infrastructure to accommodate this new branch of mountain bicycling.

Sept. 24, 2023, 7:55 p.m.
Posts: 318
Joined: Jan. 10, 2022

Upgraditis is a Way of Life

“…things we progress to require for further progression.”

I like this a lot. Is Claire outriding her Guides already??

—-

I was reminded about how I changed from a 180mm to 203mm rear rotor this season and didn’t notice any difference whatsoever. An exception to prove the rule, or perhaps I simply wasn’t worthy?

Sept. 24, 2023, 8:42 p.m.
Posts: 724
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: Blofeld

Upgraditis is a Way of Life

“…things we progress to require for further progression.”

I like this a lot. Is Claire outriding her Guides already??

—-

I was reminded about how I changed from a 180mm to 203mm rear rotor this season and didn’t notice any difference whatsoever. An exception to prove the rule, or perhaps I simply wasn’t worthy?

Clearly unworthy. 

Me too, I tried 203 rear for a while, but all it got me was skids. 180 is ample for my awesome skills.

Sept. 24, 2023, 9:01 p.m.
Posts: 772
Joined: Feb. 28, 2017

Posted by: Blofeld

Upgraditis is a Way of Life

“…things we progress to require for further progression.”

I like this a lot. Is Claire outriding her Guides already??

—-

I was reminded about how I changed from a 180mm to 203mm rear rotor this season and didn’t notice any difference whatsoever. An exception to prove the rule, or perhaps I simply wasn’t worthy?

Her rear rotor is still 160mm. Heat dissipation isn't a big concern - she weighs ~60lbs - and I'm always straightening the damn thing as it is.

Up front, she's been quite focused on doing 1-finger braking and was finding her hands were getting tired so she was switching back to 2-fingers partway through each ride. She's also been trying some much steeper trails the last few weeks (7th Secret, Lower Oil Can) with her signature brake-forward cautious style, and bumping up the rotor hasn't been an issue at all with modulation but has really improved her experience.

Sept. 24, 2023, 9:03 p.m.
Posts: 772
Joined: Feb. 28, 2017

Posted by: velocipedestrian

Posted by: Blofeld

Upgraditis is a Way of Life

“…things we progress to require for further progression.”

I like this a lot. Is Claire outriding her Guides already??

—-

I was reminded about how I changed from a 180mm to 203mm rear rotor this season and didn’t notice any difference whatsoever. An exception to prove the rule, or perhaps I simply wasn’t worthy?

Clearly unworthy. 

Me too, I tried 203 rear for a while, but all it got me was skids. 180 is ample for my awesome skills.

I run a 203mm front / 180mm rear combo on my hardtail. I've tried bigger in the name of heat dissipation, but I find I have to reset my brain every time I jump from a full-suspension bike (which, generally, has matching rotors) to my hardtail. The 203/180 combo on the hardtail makes for much easier transitions. Though next time I wear a rotor out (or wreck it) I am going to try a thicker rotor out back for the same purpose.

Sept. 24, 2023, 11:32 p.m.
Posts: 1090
Joined: Aug. 13, 2017

We've had some emotos "creep" up behind us - damn they were quiet.  At least the riders were courteous enough to slow down and wait till there was room to pass. 

Also had some proper motos pass us down a lane on Sunday - the best thing is you can hear them a long way off and get out of their way.  

Courtesy is the key especially on the multi use trails we have.

Sept. 24, 2023, 11:33 p.m.
Posts: 1090
Joined: Aug. 13, 2017

200/180 on the HT, 200/200 on the FS.  Feels like the FS bike needs more rear brake as it's actually working and not bouncing around therefore you can use it more.

Sept. 25, 2023, 4:45 a.m.
Posts: 318
Joined: Jan. 10, 2022

Posted by: AndrewMajor
Up front, she's been quite focused on doing 1-finger braking and was finding her hands were getting tired so she was switching back to 2-fingers partway through each ride. She's also been trying some much steeper trails the last few weeks (7th Secret, Lower Oil Can) with her signature brake-forward cautious style, and bumping up the rotor hasn't been an issue at all with modulation but has really improved her experience.

That’s impressive! It’s sometimes surprising how much hand fatigue a new trail or other conditions-based stress will cause. Just remembering my own two-finger panics makes my hands hurt. 

I was thinking my Cura4s will make for great kiddo brakes in a couple of years. They’re a bit high-maintenance right now but seem to have a nice close-to-the-bar position after a little air ingress. Lots of power too (but nothing to make me envious about) and shiny.

Posted by: velocipedestrian
I tried 203 rear for a while, but all it got me was skids. 180 is ample for my awesome skills.

My young lad has a coaster brake and a penchant for marking up the driveway. This is a good tip for our next contest. The reward of upgrading tires more often is a bonus.

Sept. 25, 2023, 6:55 a.m.
Posts: 2307
Joined: Sept. 10, 2012

As long as the service life is in line with my expectations I don't mind replacing wear items like brake pads, tires, rotors, grips, wheel bearings, BBs, etc... That just means I am riding a lot and it's well worth staying on top of bike maintenance tasks to keep the ride quality high. I'd rather be doing regular maintenance and riding a lot vs. not having to do much because my bike is gathering dust in the garage.

I don't get many upgrades this way as I tend to build bikes from the frame up and use whatever parts I prefer rather than buying a complete and wishing stuff I don't love would just wear out or break so I can replace them. So when something wears out it mostly gets replaced with something similar. 

I had a bit of shock when I started working PT at my LBS fixing bikes. While I do almost all of the maintenance tasks on my own bikes it didn't occur to me how few different parts I worked with. I tend to buy the same stuff over and over so maintaining it is pretty routine. Getting a random bike in the stand with parts that are not familiar to me and that have been abused to varying degrees was a challenge! That was partially quite enjoyable and partially quite frustrating.

Sept. 25, 2023, 7:13 a.m.
Posts: 425
Joined: Jan. 21, 2013

Posted by: AndrewMajor

I run a 203mm front / 180mm rear combo on my hardtail. I've tried bigger in the name of heat dissipation, but I find I have to reset my brain every time I jump from a full-suspension bike (which, generally, has matching rotors) to my hardtail. The 203/180 combo on the hardtail makes for much easier transitions. Though next time I wear a rotor out (or wreck it) I am going to try a thicker rotor out back for the same purpose.

Two things:

I went to 180mm rotors on my son's bike (very similar to the pics I have seen of Claire's) this summer when we were doing some bike park and shuttle riding. Not that he needed more heat dissipation, but he definitely needed more leverage. Many fewer hand complaints now - in hindsight maybe some four piston brakes would be good for him with a 160mm rotor ... currently he has two piston SLX. I don't know how Claire is doing with hand fatigue but my son Nik has found that as a major limiting factor on long descents.

The thicker rotors are one thing I have tried, and really enjoyed the results. I bought two 203mm/2.3mm TRP rotors to try them out (with many small holes as opposed to fewer large holes) and the difference is well worth the weight. They're very sturdy and can actually be straightened (and hold that adjustment) much better than 1.8 or 2.0mm rotors. I liked those two testers enough that I bought a bunch to standardize all my wheels for max bike swap-ability. Still, the 223mm Galfer rotors have a place and it's for when we are at a bike park for a few days. Otherwise 203/203 seems to work pretty well for me on all bikes at 205 lbs. I believe the extra thickness even adds a little more heat sink capacity.

Sept. 25, 2023, 7:35 a.m.
Posts: 772
Joined: Feb. 28, 2017

@mrbrett,

Definitely chunking down jankier trails we’ve started riding Claire notices her hands need more breaks, and the 180mm rotor has helped with that (as did the suspension fork service).

The Gift Of Guides is real! The control and lever feel is great, and the power is ideal for a 60lbs rider. The secret is to cheat the piston in just a bit to shorten lever throw.

"Everything serious is always [Full Suspension]" - Jerry Willows

#JerryWillowsHatesMyBike


 Last edited by: AndrewMajor on Sept. 25, 2023, 7:36 a.m., edited 2 times in total.
Sept. 25, 2023, 7:42 a.m.
Posts: 772
Joined: Feb. 28, 2017

Posted by: Blofeld

Posted by: AndrewMajor
Up front, she's been quite focused on doing 1-finger braking and was finding her hands were getting tired so she was switching back to 2-fingers partway through each ride. She's also been trying some much steeper trails the last few weeks (7th Secret, Lower Oil Can) with her signature brake-forward cautious style, and bumping up the rotor hasn't been an issue at all with modulation but has really improved her experience.

That’s impressive! It’s sometimes surprising how much hand fatigue a new trail or other conditions-based stress will cause. Just remembering my own two-finger panics makes my hands hurt.

I was thinking my Cura4s will make for great kiddo brakes in a couple of years. They’re a bit high-maintenance right now but seem to have a nice close-to-the-bar position after a little air ingress. Lots of power too (but nothing to make me envious about) and shiny.

The problem with the Cura brakes and small hands is not getting the lever blades close enough to the bar, it’s that the straight lever blade starts to feel mechanically vague near the end of the stroke once you pull past the point that the lever is perpendicular to the bar.

Claire was eyeing mine up (she’s like a seagull hunting French fries when it comes to shiny bike stuff) but I think the HC lever Magura brakes are much better for small hands thanks to the generous hooked shape. If I was going to upgrade from Guide brakes that is.

"Everything serious is always [Full Suspension]" - Jerry Willows

#JerryWillowsHatesMyBike


 Last edited by: AndrewMajor on Sept. 25, 2023, 7:43 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Sept. 25, 2023, 7:45 a.m.
Posts: 772
Joined: Feb. 28, 2017

Posted by: fartymarty

Courtesy is the key especially on the multi use trails we have.

100%.

(Although in the case of e-motos on rider-built single-track I was being a touch facetious).

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