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MEAT Engines 2023...

Dec. 30, 2023, 3:47 a.m.
Posts: 44
Joined: June 19, 2018

Posted by: Blofeld
Wow. Good rant!

Vulture capitalists will inject their strangling ‘strings attached' money into the next ‘big thing’ instead so brands that deserve to survive on merit will grow slowly rather than bail out b*llshitters getting rich quick.

I’m thinking companies like Kona and Stan’s which sold out at peak bike are going to be pretty happy with their moves.

(It’d be a bit easier to take this guy seriously if the website wasn’t completely choked with ads.)

I was a bit sceptical of Guy’s excessive enthusiasm but Chipps (of Singletrack Magazine) did a great interview with him in the last year or so and it’s clear that he really knows his stuff and is very good at reviewing bikes and gear. I like how he does a lot of his testing wear odd shoes and gloves so he gets through more gear and can A-B them.

(I agree about the ad’s somewhat taking the bite out of his rant!)

Dec. 30, 2023, 4:45 a.m.
Posts: 1090
Joined: Aug. 13, 2017

Posted by: a.funks

Posted by: fartymarty
A similar thing happened when we stopped again in Peaslake - the epicentre of mtb in the Surrey Hills. The only group on MEATbikes where a group of kids.

I think Peaslake has to be the top spot in the UK to spot a cornucopia of whatever is currently the easiest way to spend a TON of money on a MTB. It used to be the prime spot for carbon enduro bikes, now it’s electric versions of them. But it’s not like none of them can really RIDE - there’s some gnarly steep stuff (I’ve seen clips of mates of mine riding Brendog’s “rampage” lines which frankly would be suicidal for me to try) and some big jumps.

Lots of people having fun getting the most out of their bikes and lots of people barely scratching the surface of what their bike can do and certainly a fair few relying on their motors to get them up hills they can’t or don’t want to do with 100% meat power.

Head south towards Brighton and you’ll see plenty of hardtails (and rigids and fat bikes and retro bikes) mixed in with the usual big money electro carbon bling - probably because there isn’t as much gnarly stuff to ride and there aren’t as many big salary jobs as you get near London.

Yeah Peaslake is full of them with "all the gear but lacking on the idea".  We tend to avoid riding there in weekends - generally night rides over from Guildford if we do to avoid the masses.

Dec. 30, 2023, 4:52 a.m.
Posts: 1090
Joined: Aug. 13, 2017

Posted by: a.funks

Posted by: Blofeld
Wow. Good rant!

Vulture capitalists will inject their strangling ‘strings attached' money into the next ‘big thing’ instead so brands that deserve to survive on merit will grow slowly rather than bail out b*llshitters getting rich quick.

I’m thinking companies like Kona and Stan’s which sold out at peak bike are going to be pretty happy with their moves.

(It’d be a bit easier to take this guy seriously if the website wasn’t completely choked with ads.)

I was a bit sceptical of Guy’s excessive enthusiasm but Chipps (of Singletrack Magazine) did a great interview with him in the last year or so and it’s clear that he really knows his stuff and is very good at reviewing bikes and gear. I like how he does a lot of his testing wear odd shoes and gloves so he gets through more gear and can A-B them.

(I agree about the ad’s somewhat taking the bite out of his rant!)

I'm on the fence about the Guy Kes rant.  He did nail it but without going into specifics and naming and shaming brands it came across as a bit toothless.  Also he's part of the problem being a YT influencer therefore being a bit hypocritcial. 

I guess the message for me is that you should support the brands you really like and want around in a few years.  Ditto LBS if it's a goodun.

Dec. 30, 2023, 9:09 a.m.
Posts: 38
Joined: May 5, 2021

I try, as much as I can, to support the smaller makers. I'm fortunate to be able to, occasionally, buy a frame from a small company (or a single frame builder). Ditto with clothing and bags, but it gets much harder the further down the chain you go.

I can't really buy parts at the local bike shop. They literally don't have *anything* I want or need. I went in looking for tires- 27.5 by fat-ish (2.7-3.0) and they had... nothing. Fattest tire they had in 27.5 was a single 2.4 with dust on it. I tried to buy my Shimano Disc brakes there- Deore quad pistons). They didn't have them in stock. So I said "well, SLX or XT four piston would work, I suppose, if you have those" and they said "We don't stock anything that high-end usually." Ok. I needed full-finger mtb gloves. None. Shoes for flat pedals? None. Halfway decent helmet? Nope.

I get that maybe, for them, "serious" riders might be a small percentage, but, like, I can't buy anything from them, at all. It's nuts.

Dec. 30, 2023, 9:36 a.m.
Posts: 577
Joined: April 15, 2017

Posted by: fartymarty

I guess the message for me is that you should support the brands you really like and want around in a few years.  Ditto LBS if it's a goodun.

I try to make a point of supporting brands that support my local trails making sure they understand why I’m buying from them. Quid pro quo !

Dec. 30, 2023, 10:42 a.m.
Posts: 747
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

Posted by: AndrewMajor

I know a lot of folks working in the industry currently - wrenching, running shops, in distribution, working at bike brands - and from what I gather, I think we’ll find that a couple of years from now we’ll look back and see there was a lot of doomsaying about nothing.

Companies went pedal-to-the-floor into the post-Covid-selling-spree WALL and there’s certainly some wrecks being patched up, but I think most outfits will heal.

Totally. The COVID bike bubble was exactly that, and when a bubble pops there's a brief over-contraction and then things normalize.

That said, in parallel to that, we have ebike sales cannibalizing Enduro bike sales. That is a potentially bad thing for people on the shore, where our trail bikes are mostly Enduro bikes.

The focus of bike R&D departments is going to become increasingly more e-bike centric.

In the past, ebikes have mostly been adaptations of Enduro/trail bikes. I think soon development will become focused on ebikes and it'll be the other way around and normal bikes will get whatever trickles down from the ebike.

The problem with this is that the design requirements for ebikes don't fully overlap with the requirements for normal bikes, and I think that could negatively impact pedal bike designs.

Luckily, normal bikes have managed to reach a pretty well evolved state of prior to this paradigm shift, but these models are some of the last ones where to be designed as a pedal bike first and foremost.


 Last edited by: Kenny on Dec. 30, 2023, 10:43 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Dec. 30, 2023, 10:56 a.m.
Posts: 966
Joined: March 16, 2017

Posted by: fartymarty

Blofeld - I think that a big percentage of riders are only interested in the latest and greatest. It's only probably riders who have a few decades under their belts and are jaded by years of marketeering that appreciate the esoteric / eccentric.

I wouldn't say my bike is Interesting (it's all stock parts) it's just very considered - there's a reason behind every part on it.

Maybe jaded though would say for me more just stopped long ago caring what was the latest and greatest. And therefore stopped paying attention to the bullshit grinding.

Dec. 30, 2023, 11:55 a.m.
Posts: 1090
Joined: Aug. 13, 2017

Endurimil - I think you reach a point where your bike is not limiting the trails you can / want to ride.  I'm certainly at this point.  I pay very little attention to what the big bike companies are spewing out but still like to keep up with the little guys who generally are the innovators.

Dec. 30, 2023, 4:33 p.m.
Posts: 318
Joined: Jan. 10, 2022

Posted by: fartymarty

Blofeld - I think that a big percentage of riders are only interested in the latest and greatest. It's only probably riders who have a few decades under their belts and are jaded by years of marketeering that appreciate the esoteric / eccentric.

I wouldn't say my bike is Interesting (it's all stock parts) it's just very considered - there's a reason behind every part on it.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on your second statement. And yes, I might identify as a jaded eccentric! I see a lot more Chromags than Cotics around here so that’s part of the appeal as well.

I really don’t have any comments or questions for someone riding a brand new Slash 6 or Heckler SL. Maybe I could start asking for stock tips if I wanted to start a conversation?

Dec. 30, 2023, 8:28 p.m.
Posts: 966
Joined: March 16, 2017

Posted by: fartymarty

Endurimil - I think you reach a point where your bike is not limiting the trails you can / want to ride.  I'm certainly at this point.  I pay very little attention to what the big bike companies are spewing out but still like to keep up with the little guys who generally are the innovators.

True. I know I had reached that point a few years ago bike wise before was "forced" to upgrade frames and such. 

Funny thing the whole bike not limiting thing. Say that as would still be doing the same stuff on an older Chromag frame. And looking back at Spring of 2020 I was in the end in a situation where had to get what could to be covered by insurance.  With the huge demand for bikes and parts already begun when insurance gave the go ahead for replacement the shortages where beginning. And with so much unknown about future availability was a huge potential to get screwed because by then insurance may not cover anymore anything above a certain amount.  So got what could. To be honest if Covid and it's ensuing gong show hadn't happened would have sought an older Chromag bike and gone from there.  To be honest an older Samurai or Stylus frame would have been more then enough for Ontario. Funny thing is was thinking of that a lot on the last few months.

Jan. 1, 2024, 1:41 p.m.
Posts: 92
Joined: June 9, 2017

Posted by: kavurider

(save my old Karpiel)

Go on...

Jan. 1, 2024, 2:05 p.m.
Posts: 1090
Joined: Aug. 13, 2017

Happy New Year MEATers.

I've just set up MEAT 24... https://nsmb.com/forum/forum/article-discussion-2/topic/meat-engines-2024-133081/

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