To add to that I think there may be a defined suspension travel threshold that holds back your descending speed significantly. As far as I can tell, given capable geo, it lives on the line below the 120mm for rear and 140mm for front threshold.
I believe for ascending the differences in the shorter travel ranges are more subtle.
Posted by: Hepcat
Posted by: fartymarty
Circling back to an older discussion on Long Travel vs Short Travel as an ass saver I've had a bit more of a think about it after my first ride on the Cotic Klunker today.
Where i'm at is that Geometry is the thing that keeps you safe and Suspension is the thing that limits your speed. On the Cotic Klunker (fully rigid with 64ish HA) it was super stable on our local steep tech trail albeit a lot slower than with a 140mm fork up front - with a similar static wheelbase. If you want to still enjoy steep tech ride a rigid bike (or very short travel bike) with super progressive geo. Increasing the travel increases the speed and risk.
/\ Pointless science just for yourself on esoteric bicycle subjects that would put most people to sleep with their nerdiness is my favorite thing.
Thank you.
You're welcome. I see this thread as a safe space for such neediness.
Posted by: velocipedestrian
Perhaps the reason I hadn't got to this conclusion myself is my natural inclination to self limit speed, no matter the bike.
I'm not lucky enough to be able to self limit speed when the bike is begging to be pushed.
Posted by: Hepcat
To add to that I think there may be a defined suspension travel threshold that holds back your descending speed significantly. As far as I can tell, given capable geo, it lives on the line below the 120mm for rear and 140mm for front threshold.
I believe for ascending the differences in the shorter travel ranges are more subtle.
A 140mm front can still get me in trouble on a FS bike but no where near as much as 160 or 170!!!*. It's more limiting on a HT so 140 seems about right.
* I've run the Murmur with 170 up front and it was a beast.
Posted by: nothingfuture
1. I have a Walt.
2. I'm getting a Reeb SST.
Sounds like a nice little fleet! Are you willing to post specs and/or photos?
I think if you’re going to go custom there’s no reason to be running a pile of spacers or a mega-rise bar. Either that or it’s just old dudes with sore backs who are commissioning customs?
Posted by: fartymarty
Posted by: velocipedestrian
Perhaps the reason I hadn't got to this conclusion myself is my natural inclination to self limit speed, no matter the bike.
I'm not lucky enough to be able to self limit speed when the bike is begging to be pushed.
I feel like a blue flow trail is the worst for this kind of no-limit riding. There’s less challenge so you open up the speed and open yourself up to a big wreck.
However, if I’m riding a trail with drops or very slippery* tech, I find a longer travel bike offers much more safety than a hardtail or rigid.
*I don’t ride wet conditions too often so take my opinion with a grain of salt here!
Posted by: snowsnake
Posted by: trioofchaos
Posted by: snowsnake
A good friend and I are both moving away from carbon mtbs, and after my extreme effusiveness on the subject, he will also be getting a REEB SST to complement our respective steel/titanium SS hardtails. Mine will be Purple Spectrolite, and he is planning to get his painted Cosmic Lilac in honor of Andrew’s bike and writings.
The SST is an excellent bike! I have been on mine for a little under a year. Excited to see some pics!
Based on the looks of your Primer, I would love to see your SST if you care to share some pictures.
Yes, I will get some up soon. It is in the City Lights color. I have been off the bike with a concussion for a couple of months so don't have any pics of it's current iteration. Been a slow recovery with no end in sight at the moment!
Posted by: Blofeld
Posted by: fartymarty
Posted by: velocipedestrian
Perhaps the reason I hadn't got to this conclusion myself is my natural inclination to self limit speed, no matter the bike.
I'm not lucky enough to be able to self limit speed when the bike is begging to be pushed.
I feel like a blue flow trail is the worst for this kind of no-limit riding. There’s less challenge so you open up the speed and open yourself up to a big wreck.
However, if I’m riding a trail with drops or very slippery* tech, I find a longer travel bike offers much more safety than a hardtail or rigid.
*I don’t ride wet conditions too often so take my opinion with a grain of salt here!
Yeah, smooth trails that beg for speed are the sneaky hazard. It's all buff flow until you hit a tree at 40km/h.
Posted by: trioofchaos
Posted by: snowsnake
Posted by: trioofchaos
Posted by: snowsnake
A good friend and I are both moving away from carbon mtbs, and after my extreme effusiveness on the subject, he will also be getting a REEB SST to complement our respective steel/titanium SS hardtails. Mine will be Purple Spectrolite, and he is planning to get his painted Cosmic Lilac in honor of Andrew’s bike and writings.
The SST is an excellent bike! I have been on mine for a little under a year. Excited to see some pics!
Based on the looks of your Primer, I would love to see your SST if you care to share some pictures.
Yes, I will get some up soon. It is in the City Lights color. I have been off the bike with a concussion for a couple of months so don't have any pics of it's current iteration. Been a slow recovery with no end in sight at the moment!
Sorry to hear that! Concussions are the worst, but at least you're taking it seriously. City lights is gorgeous.
Sure, I can share. I don't have the SST yet (that'll be the late winter/early Spring), but the Walt is around:
It's changed a touch since that photo- Renthal Stem, different grips, flat pedals, bigger front brake rotor, but that'll get you the idea. It's on 27.5 x 2.8, with a 140mm fork. Spec is a mostly GX Eagle drivetrain (with XT cranks/bb), Deore Trail brakes (5130, maybe?), a Z2 fork, and some Stans wheels. Nothing too nuts, yet.
Geo is: STA 71.5, HTA 66.5, Reach 465 (60mm stem), Stack 666, BB drop 40, Front Center 786, CS 415, ST 450 (if you find your eyes twitching looking at these numbers, just remember this is built for slow-speed super techy New England jank riding. I don't have berms. Or long high speed descents. Or machine-built trails)
Color is black with holographic rainbow glitter- it's looks totally black in flat light, but in bright light it glitters and takes itself a little less seriously. There are, if you look closely, decals on the downtime. They're black vinyl, but they're that 3M stuff that's SUPER REFLECTIVE, so, again, in the right light the "Waltworks" is very, very bright.
^^ That is a great colour! Thank you for sharing.
I haven’t ridden in New England but it looks like it would be awesome for hopping up and onto rock ledges and picking your way through derailleur-smasher boulders. I’m just curious, did you consider a higher BB at any point during the process?
Love that slack STA and tall headtube.
Posted by: Blofeld
^^ That is a great colour! Thank you for sharing.
I haven’t ridden in New England but it looks like it would be awesome for hopping up and onto rock ledges and picking your way through derailleur-smasher boulders. I’m just curious, did you consider a higher BB at any point during the process?
I love the color too. I think much of the cycling world can take itself entirely too seriously, so I wanted a bike that lulls you in with that all-black-everything-deadly-serious and then when the light hits is rainbows and sparkles. Kinda the way I am, now that I think of it. I think Walt and I ended up 10mm higher BB than we started? It's also designed to manage 3" tires, and that'd raise the BB a bit more, too. But yeah- it's made for picking your way through awkward jank. The bottoms of my cranks are pretty beat up, but that's been the case with ever set of cranks I've ever ridden, and I'm deeply unwilling or uninterested in going to shorter cranks. It's on 175's, and I'm 6'1" with a saddle to pedal height of about 1000mm, I'm not into that tiny crank lyfe.
Posted by: Vikb
Love that slack STA and tall headtube.
Thanks! I was initially hesitant about the huge stack, but it's really been excellent. We kept the reach a little shorter than you might expect, but between the slack seat tube angle and the 60mm stem, the virtual top tube is still HUGE. I don't tolerate super steep STA's very well (no matter how far forward I shift my feet on the pedals), and I get a lot of power from my lower back/glutes, so for the short grunty stuff it works for me. For anything *really* steep I'm standing, and the little bit of stem helps me get far enough forward to keep the front end down.
The bike looks... like it's trying to go against every modern trend in mountain biking. I get that. But the trails I ride are pretty nearly the antithesis of machine built flow, so it's what works, you know?
Posted by: nothingfuture
Sure, I can share. I don't have the SST yet (that'll be the late winter/early Spring), but the Walt is around:
It's changed a touch since that photo- Renthal Stem, different grips, flat pedals, bigger front brake rotor, but that'll get you the idea. It's on 27.5 x 2.8, with a 140mm fork. Spec is a mostly GX Eagle drivetrain (with XT cranks/bb), Deore Trail brakes (5130, maybe?), a Z2 fork, and some Stans wheels. Nothing too nuts, yet.
Geo is: STA 71.5, HTA 66.5, Reach 465 (60mm stem), Stack 666, BB drop 40, Front Center 786, CS 415, ST 450 (if you find your eyes twitching looking at these numbers, just remember this is built for slow-speed super techy New England jank riding. I don't have berms. Or long high speed descents. Or machine-built trails)
Color is black with holographic rainbow glitter- it's looks totally black in flat light, but in bright light it glitters and takes itself a little less seriously. There are, if you look closely, decals on the downtime. They're black vinyl, but they're that 3M stuff that's SUPER REFLECTIVE, so, again, in the right light the "Waltworks" is very, very bright.
I adore 27.5x2.8 for hardtails, especially on bermless natural trails. That color is very similar to prismatic powders' City Lights I think! Same as trio's SST. It looks great, and I do loving messing with the over-serious crowd.
Posted by: fartymarty
Posted by: velocipedestrian
Perhaps the reason I hadn't got to this conclusion myself is my natural inclination to self limit speed, no matter the bike.
I'm not lucky enough to be able to self limit speed when the bike is begging to be pushed.
This is one of the main reasons the Stumpjumper Evo is going away when the SST comes here. That thing has the potential to get me in biiiig trouble.
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