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Hound Doggin' - What is your Ride Order Philosophy?

Dec. 3, 2008, 9:40 a.m.
Posts: 3728
Joined: March 6, 2003

Great article Cam.

I know some people get annoyed, but I love tailing people really close especially when I have my helmet camera on. It makes for great footage.

www.FVMBA.com 

"If everything seems in control, you're not going fast enough."
-Mario Andretti-

Dec. 3, 2008, 10:01 a.m.
Posts: 73
Joined: Sept. 2, 2008

I usually ride with riders that are much better/faster than me so I stick to the back of the pack by choice. If I end up in front of them for some reason my adrenalin shoots through the roof as I try to go fast enough to not hold them back. This can be super fun but often ends with me on the ground and them having to stop to see if I'm OK. The one area I find group rides get tricky is on balance lines because everyone has their own style of approaching them. A lot of my friends take a methodical, trials-style approach to them while I like to take a more "let's get this thing over quickly" approach and end up running up on their back wheel. Through lots of bail-outs I've definitely learned to give even the best riders more space on these types of stunts.

Dec. 3, 2008, 10:14 a.m.
Posts: 3296
Joined: March 1, 2005

Great article! I use the spread the love ROP but even more liberally than the paragraph about it describes. I have a couple of crews that I ride with fairly regularly, but my core group consists of Adrian L, Brent L, and Kevin L (no relation). When the four of us ride, we're all very evenly matched, meaning we pretty much always make everything first try. Speed is a little varied (mostly due to bikes) but since we mostly ride stunty and techy trails we're not going at race speeds anyways. We mix order frequently to enjoy watching each other and, of course, being watched. For fast trails, obviously the one who's showing the group goes first, but after that the new guys follow the STL ROP.

One nice thing about my crew is we always accomodate slower riders. When we take a new guy riding we don't just buddy up and dump him. We will ride slower if necessary, more stops, more opportunities to leave the bikes and walk ahead to scope stuff. I've been riding with enough people to know that this is NOT the norm. Wehn you join another group, you better be faster than at least one of them, or you're gone. It cracks me up when the local heros have this attitude on the 3 trails they ride every weekend and are actually fast on. I ask them, "wow you take your fast pace pretty seriously, how come I don't see you at the races?". The answer is always, "I don't race because I don't like the attitudes." Classic irony!

-m

Dec. 3, 2008, 10:58 a.m.
Posts: 4924
Joined: July 10, 2004

:???: You wanna paoch the trail, i.e. ride it?

nnnooooo you just scream that whislt you t-bone your slow friends who are in front of you, or when you jump yourself ahead in the order of riders.

i either like to be out ahead of everyone or a ways behind tail gunning… i hate nipping at people's tires or being nipped at…

Dec. 3, 2008, 11:13 a.m.
Posts: 1186
Joined: Oct. 21, 2008

With my regular crew of 4 to 6 riders the "Natural Order ROP" fits like a broken in glove - nice [HTML_REMOVED] comfy. When the mood strikes we will change up the order if somebody is ripping it one day, or if someone is feeling off, but for the most part we all know without a doubt where we are in the pack. Myself I am a mid-packer, but earlier in my riding days (with the same crew) I was often riding shotgun or in the 2 slot. I've slowed a little, but for the most part my riding buddies have gotten better and I am more than happy to ride behind them now. I also run the least amount of travel and it's often beneficial for me to see my buddies line selection… Having ridden with the same group for more than 8 years I know their tendencies and if "Rider A" is taking the line to the left I may do better hitting the line to the right and that sort of thing.

All that being said nothing angers me more than riding with a new crew of riders and automatically being placed at the back of the pack on account of being the new guy - it's ok to start that way, but if I'm being held up 5 seconds into the trail I would like to work my way up the order until I find the spot where I am not holding anyone up, or being held up myself - it's hard with new groups sometimes to establish your place in the pack, and you often get stuck in the back regardless… At the same time if I am riding with a new group I don't want to lead right off the bat either either…

Dec. 3, 2008, 11:24 a.m.
Posts: 8256
Joined: Nov. 21, 2002

Where is this, if one can say….or the first pic from the article through the old growth?

unless I'm mistaken, thats Pink Starfish from about '00

WTB Frequency i23 rim, 650b NEW - $40

Dec. 3, 2008, 12:37 p.m.
Posts: 5731
Joined: June 24, 2003

Just like powder skiing really. Often in powder though your skiing flat light. Then the smart oldfart lets the young bull go first to lay down some shitty cartwheel turn tracks and thereby laying out some depth perception for the old guy to style the slope. Riding? Let the yonug buck find the line and follow their tire. Let them crash and stumble to show you what not to do and your gold. Lately though it's just me and dog and don't ride nothin'. He goes around all stunts, bridges cuts switchbacks etc. He barks when I stop and barks when I'm too far back on a climb, and barks when he get's dropped on a descent.

Debate? Bikes are made for riding not pushing.

Dec. 3, 2008, 12:46 p.m.
Posts: 3518
Joined: May 27, 2008

Natural Order FTW..

I ride solo or in pairs fairly often, but when it's group ride, we all seem to know our "place". I'm rarely the lead in group rides, unless it's a more beginner group. In pairs with my normal riding partner I'm almost always in front, unless it's an off day. He's on an old steel hardtail though, and just can't keep up on the downhills. When he rents a big bike for Whistler he'll usually destroy me, so it balances out.

Personally I like the natural order with better riders though, because you can challenge yourself by pushing to keep up with someone who is better than you, without trying to follow someone who is levels above you.

Being cheap is OK. Being a clueless sanctimonious condescending douchebag is just Vlad's MO.

Dec. 3, 2008, 3:32 p.m.
Posts: 18529
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

i'm okay with most systems but when leelau is hitting the brakes all day in front of me on clownshoes i enevitably have to pass him

meh

Dec. 3, 2008, 6:02 p.m.
Posts: 3483
Joined: Nov. 27, 2002

I usually always try and ride at the front until I crash.

"I do like how you generally bring an open-minded and positive vibe to the threads you participate in"

- Morgman

Dec. 3, 2008, 6:53 p.m.
Posts: 200
Joined: Sept. 19, 2003

i'm okay with most systems but when leelau is hitting the brakes all day in front of me on clownshoes i enevitably have to pass him

Ha…..too funny.

EB

Dec. 3, 2008, 8:02 p.m.
Posts: 583
Joined: Sept. 13, 2006

All of the above. I'm all for sharing vibes, unless I'm with a Hound Dog like James… then it's on.

I used to ride at the front and need to, to feel it and to pin it. If you always pin it, do you always ride the same line on the trail? Do you still see other options in the blur?

I've learned to enjoy the mix these days, sometimes you can find a new line riding behind someone that you've never followed. Sometimes I pin it, sometimes I slow down and look for new options, ride switch, etc. Sometimes I pin it AND look for new options.

It just depends who your crew is… and what bike you are riding!

Great article Cam. Thanks.

DB@EB

Lessons, Rentals & Tours - since 2004

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Dec. 4, 2008, 10:26 a.m.
Posts: 38
Joined: Feb. 8, 2005

The guy riding your tire always seems faster and smoother because he's just following your line; he's faster by default because you, the leader, have to do all the thinking and make the mistakes. Stick him in front and see how he likes a guy floating around his ass like he's in a prison shower room.

Dec. 4, 2008, 1:20 p.m.
Posts: 5731
Joined: June 24, 2003

The guy riding your tire always seems faster and smoother because he's just following your line; he's faster by default because you, the leader, have to do all the thinking and make the mistakes. Stick him in front and see how he likes a guy floating around his ass like he's in a prison shower room.

That's right, so take the lumpy line on purpose a few times and the tail gater backs off. I remember tailing Ralph a while back on our way from downtown to the Capilano Pacific trail for our night time commute home to Lynn Valley. Ralph hops a curb and I do likewise only to discover…mid air… that we just hoped a short retaining wall. Maybe 2 feet high and I landed fine but I think poop shooted out the legs of my lycra shorts when I landed.

Debate? Bikes are made for riding not pushing.

Dec. 4, 2008, 1:28 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Oct. 2, 2007

That's right, so take the lumpy line on purpose a few times and the tail gater backs off. I remember tailing Ralph a while back on our way from downtown to the Capilano Pacific trail for our night time commute home to Lynn Valley. Ralph hops a curb and I do likewise only to discover…mid air… that we just hoped a short retaining wall. Maybe 2 feet high and I landed fine but I think poop shooted out the legs of my lycra shorts when I landed.

Sweet. On my commuter bike I think I would be toast… I am in awe of guys who can hop road bikes smoothly.

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