Fromme Construction - what are they doing to my mountain?

The first thing I thought when I saw the picture of Cedar Trail "This reminds me of something."

And on my ride I found it,

An ATV track,

That would make sense except that the road was built after the bridge was already completed. And the excavator certainly could have rolled in on the existing road.

It's possible that the materials were made available by the road construction for minimal cost but it's certainly not free to have a bobcat, and excavator, operators for both and a swamper. The excavator was probably the easiest way to clear the river rock from the east approach to the bridge but it could have been done with a few humans with shovels and strong backs as well.

In that case, I think that was a waste of resouces. That was always a pretty wide solid hunk of trial from my recollection. Did it get chewed up by the equipment and the gravel is the repair?

I didn't live here when Abelard was constructed. I always wondered how they got the stuff in. BIG job. I know the trials they used to get the stuff up. BIG climb with heavy materials.

As for bats. Now we know. Sure was sceptical though. But all that means is bats die if they get too close as well as get struck. Birds too? And more importantly, how many are actually killed versus the benefit of the "free" power from wind? How fast do the vanes have to be moving to cause a death and is that going to happen very often?

Why does that have to be white? Why not paint it Camo?

I worked up there years ago and people said that yvr paid grouse to keep the lights on as a reference for plane traffic.

Its always been a Vancouver landmark.

From when I can remember my mom always called it the stairway to heaven! Then I skied there as a teenager and well.. nevermind…

Two years ago they did turn off half the lights during the summer as requested by hydro to conserve power. The feedback from that was more negative since people do recognize the lights, just like they recognize the Vancouver skyline and wanted the lights kept on. I did notice they kept the lights on all this year.

In that case, I think that was a waste of resouces. That was always a pretty wide solid hunk of trial from my recollection. Did it get chewed up by the equipment and the gravel is the repair?

Considering Cedar trail is an old skidder road it should have been able to handle the traffic.

And if it did get chewed up who would have noticed?

Considering Cedar trail is an old skidder road it should have been able to handle the traffic.

And if it did get chewed up who would have noticed?

Exactly. Kind of illustrates the difference

Long story short - I'm suspicious. Suspicious that the DNV is doing things which affect their constituents without consulting the constituents. Any day I feel we'll go up there and there will be public vehicle access to the road, lots cleared for development, trails destroyed, anything, and with no explenation or prior consultation. It's scary times for Fromme.

Sounds like you should become a board member on the MFRA?

The excavator was probably the easiest way to clear the river rock from the east approach to the bridge but it could have been done with a few humans with shovels and strong backs as well.

I wonder if they would mind moving a few loads of rock over to Floppy bunny, could do with some there.

As for bats. Now we know. Sure was sceptical though. But all that means is bats die if they get too close as well as get struck. Birds too? And more importantly, how many are actually killed versus the benefit of the "free" power from wind? How fast do the vanes have to be moving to cause a death and is that going to happen very often?

As for wind turbines being bat and bird blenders, apparently the largest bird protection group in America supports wind power big time. Wind power results in less pollution compared with other power sources which supposedly increases the net number of birds that survive. Mileage may vary for the bats though?

As for being twins, na I think we are just old and cynical, unless you were born in Mwanza, Tanganyika?

we built them a perfectly good bridge for free that's been in use for the past year; so what do they do - drop a tree on our bridge to smash it and build their own $8,000 bridge. Then they decide to dump a few truck loads of gravel on the trail. What th hell? Bureaucrats piss me off

Damn, I saw the tree they had dropped on your bridge and can remember thinking it looked deliberate. That's really depressing, $8,000 k would go a long way to helping out the other trails, @ $25/hour that would be 40 days of labour … gad!

I worked up there years ago and people said that yvr paid grouse to keep the lights on as a reference for plane traffic.

Fair enough but put a single flashing light on top like every other tall building and radio mast on the planet.

Fromme is on borrowed time. It'll be covered in houses in 10 years.

Personally, I wish I could be working on this job. Running the Excavator or w/e. You City folk are so naive and stupid. I love Fromme it's the first mountain I ever rode, I really don't see any problem with whats going on though. Next year when the price of electricity makes it's 18[HTML_REMOVED]#37; predicted up turn I'll be sure to link you all to this thread.

How are we na[HTML_REMOVED]#239;ve and stupid exactly? I'm not saying we aren't - you may have a point - but I don't think you made that point above.

These boards are filled with people from all walks of life. We've got lawyers, doctors, mechanics, loggers, oil workers, city engineers, etc. Now I haven't read the thread in it's entirety but what I've caught in this thread skimming over there is a huge amount of negativity to something that should be hugely supported. We are land users, those of us who build/ride/use fromme for outdoor activities. The road that begins at the end of mountain highway is private. It was made for Grouse, it's used by Grouse it is Grouse's to do whatever they wish. Users boot, M.A.X., ***just to name a few. You're all going off like you have some right to be to say what should or shouldn't happen to the road. They're trying to build some "green" energy for once, but because it may happen to effect where you like to ride your bikes you're all freaking out. It's a damn bit smaller then a damn, nuclear reactor, or coal burning plant. And you can't use the oh it's going to hurt the enviroment bit, because it's a cleaner power source then any of the ones I have for mentioned. This is clean energy, it should be supported. It's unfortunate when trails get effected, but the only real way to have a bike trail that won't ever be touched is to buy a chunk of land and build trails on it. Kids get there dirt jumps torn down all the time, loose there places where they used to have forts or w/e. Nothing ever happens no one claims. 380 some odd 50+ year old trees are cut down in cloverdale I didn't see anyone here have any concern? If this was a wind turbine ripping out some swimming pool, or booling alley, or gym or even some hikers trail none of you would even care. It's just because it effects you directly you now notice. What you think you can have great mountain bike trails 5 minutes from civilization and not be effected. Oh my gawd.

Wake up!

I'm out of time, but I'll be back to continue this rant.

I don't write well.
My apologises.

Interesting point. Unfortunately I think BC hydro is currently maxing out on production, because I think they sell it south of the border, and self generation by hydro has not been deregulated enough to encourage smaller developments.

It should also be recognized that large (i.e. non-micro) hydro projects can also have environmental problems as well, such destroying forest and habitat, altering micro climates, affecting fish etc. When building a dam a lot of energy is also expended during construction. I have not seen a net environmental/sustainability assessment between hydro and wind.

we also sell a lot to alberta, and buy from them. why? if we ran our damns full out all the time, it would still only put out about 65% of what we use. fortunatly, we can slow our power production and store that energy in the resevoir whenever we want, and switch it on and off fairly quickly and easily. alberta uses coal for power, those coal generators need to run at a certain level to work properly, and it isn't really worth it to turn them down, and it cannot be stored. we use most of our power during the day, so in the day we crank up the damns and let em flow. this produces more than we need. at this same time, alberta doesn't produce enough for peak hours, so they can buy electricity from us for a premium. at night, we can slow the damns down, and produce less than we need, and alberta is still producing the same amount as usualy, which at that time is more than they need. since they can't store it, if they don't sell it, it would go to waste, so we buy it off them for cheap.

in all, its a good deal for BC. I don't know if we have similar deals with the US or not.

I still think far too many people take the North Shore for granted. For most of us it already existed when we got into the sport, even for those of us who have been in it awhile and seen it change so greatly to what it is with the slope style now. Many of us fail to realize that we are users of land that isn't owned by us, we just just never seen or realized it any other way. Almost everyone here never even knew fromme existed until we started mountain biking, and we probably thought Seymour and cypress were ski hills. As I've said before I'm never a fan when I see biking trails disappear having been around for the cypress, watershed and burke massacres it always saddens me to see great trails or works of arts go. To a point trail building is no different then spraying graffitti. Sometimes it's appreciated and liked, other times development causes it to go. Maybe thats a bad analogy. But all in all wake up, you live in a big city, it can only expand in two directions, North and East. So when it happens don't be so surprised. To whoever said the big ugly excavators and heavy equipment I suppose you live in a nice tent in a forest grove somewhere and don't use public roads or thru ways right…because they also built them? I hope to see the old mountain highway made ready for 18 wheelers and I hope to see the wind project gone through with, because if it does it'll mean a better future for me. If you don't like development you picked the wrong place to live. Move up the interior or up the coast or too the island. Development is a fact of life here and always has been for years, and it will be to a point any place you go. I'm just glad to see it's not another damn, coal/gas burning or nuclear power plant. Because to me thats way more ugly to have to look at everyday. I'd like to see just how hypocritical some of your lifestyles are the houses you live in, the cars you drive, the lines of work your in…etc. I am by no means calling myself perfect, I'm not I'm a stupid 19 year old kid what do I know. But if I can see this, why can't you.