2009 Mongoose Nugget - Proto shots

The BB "comes forward" relative to what ?

Relative to a perpendicular line to the ground.

I haven't ridden any of them yet, but for you guys to just spout off your theories about how it's going to ride based on pictures is ridiculous.

Rearward trajectory = slow ride.

P.S. I can't comment on how these bikes ride, but the GT I-Drive was quite possibly one of the worst suspension designs in history. Well, maybe not that bad, but it sure didn't work well.

Relative to a perpendicular line to the ground.

The BB's movement relative to the ground is irrelevant as the bike is in motion over the ground !

Rearward trajectory = slow ride.

P.S. I can't comment on how these bikes ride, but the GT I-Drive was quite possibly one of the worst suspension designs in history. Well, maybe not that bad, but it sure didn't work well.

So you've spent some time on an I-Drive Wayne? Did you own one or parking lot test it? I rode an I-Drive for a season and the way you could pedal through chop was amazing. It wasn't a perfect bike but there was a lot to love for sure.

Back in the day there was a time when the I-Drive was the DH bike to beat.

Back in the day there was a time when the I-Drive was the DH bike to beat.

Only because Peat was on it.

Ummm… So how does the suspension unload ? A rearward axle path under compression is a forward axle path when decompressing. On repeat hits the said axle path will cause the suspension to stack and bottom easier than a vertical axle path.

IMO.

I haven't seen the bike in the flesh but looking at the photo's the position of the pivot on the near vertical part that activates the shock and houses the BB is approx halfway between the shock mount and the BB axle center. That means that the location of you pedals/feet is able to move at least 2" +/- on a horizontal plane relative to your bars/hands.

Nuts IMO.

How does the suspension unload?

We're not talking about a rear wheel trajectory that sends the wheel straight back..it still travels in an upwards motion, its just that it is a "sweep" back. And it most certainly compresses in more of an upwards fashion rather than backwards.

If you can imagine a bike that's compression/leverage ratio increases significantly through it's travel, a design like that would be more likely to "stack up" as you progress through the travel as the spring/air shock would be placed under greater compression forces as you cycle through the travel.

FreeDrive maintains a near consistent leverage ratio through its travel, thus giving this bike, if anything, an advantage in keeping the wheel on the ground.

Click play on this Flash animation of the FreeDrive. It's based on an ECD.

http://www.sicklines.com/review/ecd/geometry.html

And to your point on the BB moving forwards and backwards under compression/decompression, you bring up a good point, if the bike was in a bike stand, yes that would be the case.
However you forgot to take into account that when your frame compresses under load while riding, its not just your rear triangle moving up, the front triangle also "squats" down and it's a combination of those two things, therefore relatively minimizing the movement of the BB.

The idea is to isolate the BB from suspension compression, and as you can see from the Flash, the rear triangle and front triangle work around the BB piece. That animation is not taking into account the compression of the fork, so it looks like the frame gets really raked out, which exaggerates the BB movement. But if you use your imagination to picture the front triangle dropping down with the rear suspension in a similar fashion, I'm sure you'll be able to see what I'm trying to explain.

So you've spent some time on an I-Drive Wayne? Did you own one or parking lot test it? I rode an I-Drive for a season and the way you could pedal through chop was amazing. It wasn't a perfect bike but there was a lot to love for sure.

Back in the day there was a time when the I-Drive was the DH bike to beat.

Yea, I spent some time aboard the hand made DHI when it first came out. The one that everyone drooled over - until they rode it. Remember that one? I aso rode the next generation Taiwanese version. Both were horride. Riding them back to back with my Balfa BB7's was eye opening on how shitty those GT's were over rough and choppy terrain. Two different shocks, same result. Feet flying off the pedals, backend bouncing off everything, not tracking. Horride.

Then there was the maintenance.

I suppose in XC mode they would've been better but for DH where you want all that travel glued down to the ground, the GT's weren't even remotely close to fulfilling that task.

Wow.

I really hate people that make fun of companies they dont THINK are that great. Riding around on your perfectly clean boutique frames on the weekend.

Fuck that noise. I would just ignore these people as their opinion is completely useless.

Only because Peat was on it.

I agree with this in one respect.

Biking is all about the rider. Doesn't matter what your ride.

(ie the mongoose is a cheap nice ride)

And you can stuff it.

I suppose in XC mode they would've been better but for DH where you want all that travel glued down to the ground, the GT's weren't even remotely close to fulfilling that task.

The bike I was on was a 6" Ruckus so a few generations removed from that. At the same time I've heard a lot of racers - Dave Watson when I interviewed him once for example - sing the praises of that bike. Dave was on Kona by this point and recounting his sponsors and racing history. I recall that he said he went to GT because of the bike specifically. A different opinion to say the least.

Chain stay is a bit long, but that is do to the design.
Good to see more beefy short travel bikes. I think it is the way the sport is going. The days of the big gross dorp to falt is over. Flowy is the way to go.

I love my Dissident.

The bike I was on was a 6" Ruckus so a few generations removed from that. At the same time I've heard a lot of racers - Dave Watson when I interviewed him once for example - sing the praises of that bike. Dave was on Kona by this point and recounting his sponsors and racing history. I recall that he said he went to GT because of the bike specifically. A different opinion to say the least.

DH-I = eewwww….

the new dh bike is nicely refined [HTML_REMOVED] looks light. i'd like to give one a try. i was initially skeptical, but i've heard several solid reviews (of the current chassis). as a (really) oldschool bmx'er, i'd kinda like to see mongoose turn things around. from what i see here, looks like they're on the right track.