Another good piece Andrew and also a very true piece. I never owned one of those Klein's, but had several friends who did and holy fvck, talk about riding a concrete brick, they were beautiful paint wise, but awful ride wise. Step forward a few years and a friend bought a Trek 8000, 26" wheels and all still back then, but I took it over on part of a ride down a very rough, what once was cart road, but left to get water rutted and eroded away and I could not believe how very nice and "comfortable" it was, even compared to my then Giant Trance, it really shocked me.
Now step forward a few years, I've been on a very flexy Niner 29er FS for 2 years and looking for something different, so I acquire a Banshee Paradox V1, and boy is it different. Super nimble, super playful, fun, when you put the power down, it jumps forward. In tech situations where doing small pivots and moves and quick power bursts, insane, but she's not the most "comfortable" bird on the market, super capable, but not comfortable so to speak.
Fast forward to me, thanks to the introduction of plus, convert my '08 Monkey for proper trail use and it's much more compliant, but I never really compared it to the Paradox because I only ran 2.4" rubber on that and I'm running 2.8/3.0" on the Monkey, so put it down to that. Fast forward again and 2017 is coming to a close, the Monkey is coming to be 10 years old and having giving great service and me wanting a dedicated commuter/road bike, I acquire a 2018 Unit frameset _(comes with drop outs for SS or geared, props Kona)_, it says biggest tyres it'll fit are 650B 2.8", so I do a direct wheel swap of the plus wheels off the Monkey 650B 2.8" R/29x3.0" F and all the parts and give it a go, but don't like the "much" slacker geo it gives _(Monkey with the B+/29+ setup I think was around a 68.5HTA, Unit with an external lower cup and 29" wheels is 67.5HTA, with B+/29+ HTA is around 66.5),_ so I have the matching Dually45 rear to match the front and a tyre to fit and so slam the Unit's stays all the way back and give it a go and what'd ya know, it fits with some room and that's how it's run ever since.
After my experience running B+/29+ on the Monkey, I have converted my Banshee Paradox fleet to run B+/29-29+ and on one ride decide to give one a go, I hit the same trails I hit the week before on the Unit and, most notably on one drop I feel like I've landed a brick riding the Paradox compared to the Unit, cannot believe the harsh difference. Now I believe that some of that could come down to the much longer stays on the Unit offering more flex, material not withstanding, but I don't think that's what it is, more like Banshee designed the OG Paradox to be stiff AF so power transfer and doing moves in the tech were instantaneous and it always was, which was great when I was younger and hadn't fractured my knee and my legs worked as great suspension, but after, not good.
I'd really love to throw a leg over the new Paradox, I really would, just to see how different it is since the new built in compliance was added, but I've absolutely no reason to spend the $$ when I'm perfectly happy with the geo and ride of my Unit, maybe sometime down the road when things are much, much better financially, but not now, especially since I've also got the Phantom if I want "plush".
All this toi say that it's frame design/geo that's important, but it's also tube design, butting and shaping that make the big difference and when companies like Trek, Giant go at it, they have the resources to produces what's needed, easily because of their size, but thankfully smaller companies like Banshee can also now get and use the same technology in tubing to achieve the same ride characteristics.
For me though, steel will always be real, because of that one point you made Andrew, reparability in places outside of major countries, any good welder can "patch" back up a steel frame, no heat treat needed and you're back in business, not so with 7000 series alu, hence why my cracked BB on the paradox was fixed using bonding, not welding.
May 26, 2023, 4:59 a.m. - Lynx .
Another good piece Andrew and also a very true piece. I never owned one of those Klein's, but had several friends who did and holy fvck, talk about riding a concrete brick, they were beautiful paint wise, but awful ride wise. Step forward a few years and a friend bought a Trek 8000, 26" wheels and all still back then, but I took it over on part of a ride down a very rough, what once was cart road, but left to get water rutted and eroded away and I could not believe how very nice and "comfortable" it was, even compared to my then Giant Trance, it really shocked me. Now step forward a few years, I've been on a very flexy Niner 29er FS for 2 years and looking for something different, so I acquire a Banshee Paradox V1, and boy is it different. Super nimble, super playful, fun, when you put the power down, it jumps forward. In tech situations where doing small pivots and moves and quick power bursts, insane, but she's not the most "comfortable" bird on the market, super capable, but not comfortable so to speak. Fast forward to me, thanks to the introduction of plus, convert my '08 Monkey for proper trail use and it's much more compliant, but I never really compared it to the Paradox because I only ran 2.4" rubber on that and I'm running 2.8/3.0" on the Monkey, so put it down to that. Fast forward again and 2017 is coming to a close, the Monkey is coming to be 10 years old and having giving great service and me wanting a dedicated commuter/road bike, I acquire a 2018 Unit frameset _(comes with drop outs for SS or geared, props Kona)_, it says biggest tyres it'll fit are 650B 2.8", so I do a direct wheel swap of the plus wheels off the Monkey 650B 2.8" R/29x3.0" F and all the parts and give it a go, but don't like the "much" slacker geo it gives _(Monkey with the B+/29+ setup I think was around a 68.5HTA, Unit with an external lower cup and 29" wheels is 67.5HTA, with B+/29+ HTA is around 66.5),_ so I have the matching Dually45 rear to match the front and a tyre to fit and so slam the Unit's stays all the way back and give it a go and what'd ya know, it fits with some room and that's how it's run ever since. After my experience running B+/29+ on the Monkey, I have converted my Banshee Paradox fleet to run B+/29-29+ and on one ride decide to give one a go, I hit the same trails I hit the week before on the Unit and, most notably on one drop I feel like I've landed a brick riding the Paradox compared to the Unit, cannot believe the harsh difference. Now I believe that some of that could come down to the much longer stays on the Unit offering more flex, material not withstanding, but I don't think that's what it is, more like Banshee designed the OG Paradox to be stiff AF so power transfer and doing moves in the tech were instantaneous and it always was, which was great when I was younger and hadn't fractured my knee and my legs worked as great suspension, but after, not good. I'd really love to throw a leg over the new Paradox, I really would, just to see how different it is since the new built in compliance was added, but I've absolutely no reason to spend the $$ when I'm perfectly happy with the geo and ride of my Unit, maybe sometime down the road when things are much, much better financially, but not now, especially since I've also got the Phantom if I want "plush". All this toi say that it's frame design/geo that's important, but it's also tube design, butting and shaping that make the big difference and when companies like Trek, Giant go at it, they have the resources to produces what's needed, easily because of their size, but thankfully smaller companies like Banshee can also now get and use the same technology in tubing to achieve the same ride characteristics. For me though, steel will always be real, because of that one point you made Andrew, reparability in places outside of major countries, any good welder can "patch" back up a steel frame, no heat treat needed and you're back in business, not so with 7000 series alu, hence why my cracked BB on the paradox was fixed using bonding, not welding.