Not quite back-to-back, but I did have to switch back to an 18 POE hub for a handful of rides after a while on a 102 POE hub, and then back to the 102 when that wheel got fixed. I didn't notice anything on downhills (maybe I don't lock the wheel that much, nor creep down things with huge hits?), but noticed it _A LOT_ when pedaling. Blew off the pedals a few times when I hit that long-end of the engagement window and the pedals spun _unconstrained_ for way too long when trying to get back on the power after a ratchet or soft-pedal. It also just sucked up so much energy, and definitely impacted traction, trying to account for that larger free spin and subsequent impact between pawls: kind of like riding on ice where the first push spins the wheel and then you have to back off and soft-pedal to keep the grip.
I also had to re-tighten my RaceFace direct-mount chainring in the middle of the stint on 18 POE, which could possibly be attributed to the low-engagement hub raising the maximum impacts by allowing the whole system to move freer and faster before then catching up to the pawls and getting drastically slowed down. But really that's only correlation, not necessarily causation. Though I haven't had to re-tighten it with even more time back on the 102 POE, so...
Note again, I'm not saying that kickback is not a thing and can't be felt, and not saying that it has zero effect on the suspension. I'm saying that, maybe, a dozen degrees of (constrained) pedal movement isn't a much of a detriment as might be thought. It even provides nice feedback through the pedals of what the supension is doing: I can tell if I landed flat and slow because the pedals tell me instantly, as opposed to hearing and feeling the pawls slam into the drive-ring.
I guess I didn't/don't experience the "rear wheel is locked but I still need lots of very soft suspension" situation enough to notice it on either hub. So, like some others, I'm not convinced anyone actually experiences this very often, and not something else that feels the same. I mean, it could easily be anti-rise causing the suspension to squat into a firmer position and that's causing some bucking, since the being wheel locked is pretty close to maximum AR. Could be interesting to try to replicate the feeling with a range of hubs and bikes with differing anti-rise...
March 20, 2023, 2:41 p.m. - Justin White
Not quite back-to-back, but I did have to switch back to an 18 POE hub for a handful of rides after a while on a 102 POE hub, and then back to the 102 when that wheel got fixed. I didn't notice anything on downhills (maybe I don't lock the wheel that much, nor creep down things with huge hits?), but noticed it _A LOT_ when pedaling. Blew off the pedals a few times when I hit that long-end of the engagement window and the pedals spun _unconstrained_ for way too long when trying to get back on the power after a ratchet or soft-pedal. It also just sucked up so much energy, and definitely impacted traction, trying to account for that larger free spin and subsequent impact between pawls: kind of like riding on ice where the first push spins the wheel and then you have to back off and soft-pedal to keep the grip. I also had to re-tighten my RaceFace direct-mount chainring in the middle of the stint on 18 POE, which could possibly be attributed to the low-engagement hub raising the maximum impacts by allowing the whole system to move freer and faster before then catching up to the pawls and getting drastically slowed down. But really that's only correlation, not necessarily causation. Though I haven't had to re-tighten it with even more time back on the 102 POE, so... Note again, I'm not saying that kickback is not a thing and can't be felt, and not saying that it has zero effect on the suspension. I'm saying that, maybe, a dozen degrees of (constrained) pedal movement isn't a much of a detriment as might be thought. It even provides nice feedback through the pedals of what the supension is doing: I can tell if I landed flat and slow because the pedals tell me instantly, as opposed to hearing and feeling the pawls slam into the drive-ring. I guess I didn't/don't experience the "rear wheel is locked but I still need lots of very soft suspension" situation enough to notice it on either hub. So, like some others, I'm not convinced anyone actually experiences this very often, and not something else that feels the same. I mean, it could easily be anti-rise causing the suspension to squat into a firmer position and that's causing some bucking, since the being wheel locked is pretty close to maximum AR. Could be interesting to try to replicate the feeling with a range of hubs and bikes with differing anti-rise...