I have a recent experience that might lean some tangential, anecdotal weight towards your theory being correct. I raced the sun peaks enduro on my Instinct this year with a -1.5 degree Angleset, mostly because my longer travel stuff was either a. broken b. not ready or c. a dual crown bike with a 7 speed cassette. For comparison, my Instinct is a 2018, like the Carbine.
I think it was both one of the lower travel and older bikes there. The last race I attended at the 'Peaks was in 2016, and the difference in bikes is remarkably different. Back in 2016, localish enduros were certainly a lot more "run what ya brung", with bikes like the Thunderbolt and fuel ex making appearances. Now it's all Megatower this, Slash that. Well done bike media and marketing departments there, I suppose. Mission accomplished.
By most accounts, Sun peaks was one of the more demanding stops of the series, with 5 top to bottom stages and one straight line and steep shorter stage.
Bike wise, I didn't think the geometry held me back. With the angleset, increased fork travel, and higher stack than I normally run (compared to my 140mm fork), I didn't feel like I wanted for much. Maybe a bit longer rear end - I mostly ride a pretty modern DH bike there, for comparison.
If anything, the thing I noticed was suspension design/travel. The Rocky just isn't all that on the ultra high speed, square edged hits (whether in BC mode or not). I'll cut it some slack as the bike was certainly a bit out of its element.
Funnily enough, I think the slack seat tube angles of this slightly older generation of bikes (say, 74-75.5 or so) might be the least relevant part of the modern geometry shift for actual race days. Its counterintuitive too. A lot of Enduro races have riders going up stupid steep gravel roads and other stuff that you'd often dodge and hit up climb trails on most other days - you'd expect the super steep seat angles to be a big help here.
Except they don't. Why? Because the vast majority of riders walked up the steepest sections on race day to avoid spiking their heart rate. I know lots of people like steeper seat tube angles these days, particularly if they go up steep gravel roads all day, but the fact it didn't actually matter on the days you were between the tape? Amusing.
The thing that really struck me racing my outdated instinct is that while it was certainly not the best tool for the job, the smaller side of XL geometry let me stay in a competent body position for longer. When I rode the new range for most of last year, it was a consistent effort to stay on top of the proper position, and when I got tired, it was tough. On the substantially smaller Rocky, when I'm gassed, I'm still in the optimal position. This issue probably goes away if you're a fitness enthusiast or pro, but as decidedly middle of the pack, age-category rider, a bike with a fit closer to the Rocky is one I could ride at close to my best all day for several days. When I was gassed after a pedal section of a 7 minute stage, I was still in a body position to control the bike and corner effectively and safely.
Looking at the carbine specifically, the glaring issue with Intense bikes is that people want big Santa Cruz used bike money for them, despite lacking the decade of support commitment you see from the 'Cruz.
Oct. 24, 2022, 2:56 p.m. - Lu Kz
I have a recent experience that might lean some tangential, anecdotal weight towards your theory being correct. I raced the sun peaks enduro on my Instinct this year with a -1.5 degree Angleset, mostly because my longer travel stuff was either a. broken b. not ready or c. a dual crown bike with a 7 speed cassette. For comparison, my Instinct is a 2018, like the Carbine. I think it was both one of the lower travel and older bikes there. The last race I attended at the 'Peaks was in 2016, and the difference in bikes is remarkably different. Back in 2016, localish enduros were certainly a lot more "run what ya brung", with bikes like the Thunderbolt and fuel ex making appearances. Now it's all Megatower this, Slash that. Well done bike media and marketing departments there, I suppose. Mission accomplished. By most accounts, Sun peaks was one of the more demanding stops of the series, with 5 top to bottom stages and one straight line and steep shorter stage. Bike wise, I didn't think the geometry held me back. With the angleset, increased fork travel, and higher stack than I normally run (compared to my 140mm fork), I didn't feel like I wanted for much. Maybe a bit longer rear end - I mostly ride a pretty modern DH bike there, for comparison. If anything, the thing I noticed was suspension design/travel. The Rocky just isn't all that on the ultra high speed, square edged hits (whether in BC mode or not). I'll cut it some slack as the bike was certainly a bit out of its element. Funnily enough, I think the slack seat tube angles of this slightly older generation of bikes (say, 74-75.5 or so) might be the least relevant part of the modern geometry shift for actual race days. Its counterintuitive too. A lot of Enduro races have riders going up stupid steep gravel roads and other stuff that you'd often dodge and hit up climb trails on most other days - you'd expect the super steep seat angles to be a big help here. Except they don't. Why? Because the vast majority of riders walked up the steepest sections on race day to avoid spiking their heart rate. I know lots of people like steeper seat tube angles these days, particularly if they go up steep gravel roads all day, but the fact it didn't actually matter on the days you were between the tape? Amusing. The thing that really struck me racing my outdated instinct is that while it was certainly not the best tool for the job, the smaller side of XL geometry let me stay in a competent body position for longer. When I rode the new range for most of last year, it was a consistent effort to stay on top of the proper position, and when I got tired, it was tough. On the substantially smaller Rocky, when I'm gassed, I'm still in the optimal position. This issue probably goes away if you're a fitness enthusiast or pro, but as decidedly middle of the pack, age-category rider, a bike with a fit closer to the Rocky is one I could ride at close to my best all day for several days. When I was gassed after a pedal section of a 7 minute stage, I was still in a body position to control the bike and corner effectively and safely. Looking at the carbine specifically, the glaring issue with Intense bikes is that people want big Santa Cruz used bike money for them, despite lacking the decade of support commitment you see from the 'Cruz.