Sorry, this should have gone under Lynx's last comment.
I'm a larger guy (191cm, ape index 0) and really like that Banshee lists 3 saddle heights for ESTA. I'm bang on 800mm (direct BB to seat) on my flats. Totally agree however about the "total setback" this is why the actual steep seat tubes climb steeps needing less body English, your forward of the picvot point of the rear axle. These rando selected measurements also are very misleading.
We just bought my wife a Sight and despite a longer HTT and reach (measured from saddle level with bars is standard) she felt the bike fit very close to her 2018 Mojo, maybe even a touch smaller. I don't care if an XL bike has "long reach" if the HTT is to short it won't fit. If it's HTT "grows" a lot with saddle height, it's climbing position will suffer due to that "set back" getting near the rear hub and the position of the pedals moving into beach cruiser territory. This is probly why I've never loved a Trek. But this new gen may change that....
Sept. 15, 2022, 7:43 p.m. - Bruce Mackay
Sorry, this should have gone under Lynx's last comment. I'm a larger guy (191cm, ape index 0) and really like that Banshee lists 3 saddle heights for ESTA. I'm bang on 800mm (direct BB to seat) on my flats. Totally agree however about the "total setback" this is why the actual steep seat tubes climb steeps needing less body English, your forward of the picvot point of the rear axle. These rando selected measurements also are very misleading. We just bought my wife a Sight and despite a longer HTT and reach (measured from saddle level with bars is standard) she felt the bike fit very close to her 2018 Mojo, maybe even a touch smaller. I don't care if an XL bike has "long reach" if the HTT is to short it won't fit. If it's HTT "grows" a lot with saddle height, it's climbing position will suffer due to that "set back" getting near the rear hub and the position of the pedals moving into beach cruiser territory. This is probly why I've never loved a Trek. But this new gen may change that....