Andrew, Cam - Here's my 2 pence worth... (ramble / rant etc)
Steel has been used as a frame building material for aeons. It is very well understood (stiffness and strength) as a material for building bikes. Alumimium and Carbon have been used for a lot less time. As such there is a lot of knowledge how to build a strong yet supple steel frame, less so with Al and C.
Steel also has the "advantage" of coming in tubes - therefore the builder is limited by the tube diameter and wall thickness and material propertied. Compare this with hydroformed Al or even C which can be formed into very complicated shaped and varying thicknesses. There are less variables with steel therefore the the builder has more ability to "tune" the frame. Although there are companies (i'm thinking Unno, Banshee, Nicolai) who are doing this with C and Al.
Steel is a great material for building hardtails as its supple, robust and understood as a material. Al can also be built to be supple and I think we will see more supple Al hardtails in the future - i'm thinking Banshee, Santa Cruz, Nicolai etc. However at the moment I would bet a large chunk of hardtails are steel
I think what Joe at Starling has managed to do is blend the supple feeling of steel with the simplicity of a hardtail (single pivot). This just happened to be done in a shed in Bristol however it could have happened anywhere - i'm thinking Dan Stanton (if he hadn't gone multi link), Walt, Sklar... the list goes on. At some point it would have happened.
I think single pivot FS frames attract hardtail riders due to the simplicity and use of steel as a material. Hardtail riders are probably more supportive (fanatical) of their material of choice (steel) than riders of Al and C bikes.
Are Starlings any better than multi pivot bikes - probably not - maybe they're 90% as good as a suspension design but make up for it with good shocks (i've seen a lot of Starlings on the web with Ohlins) and a nice amount of flex (lateral and vertical - I think the curved seat stays act like a leaf spring when bottomed out).
Maybe soon we will see Al and C bikes designed in a similar way where the suspension system is less important and ride quality is the focus - however given the general trend for "more" maybe not.
Maybe the "Starling Fallacy" would be a good podcast - It would be interesting to hear Joe's thoughts on the subject.
Dec. 1, 2021, 1:11 a.m. - fartymarty
Andrew, Cam - Here's my 2 pence worth... (ramble / rant etc) Steel has been used as a frame building material for aeons. It is very well understood (stiffness and strength) as a material for building bikes. Alumimium and Carbon have been used for a lot less time. As such there is a lot of knowledge how to build a strong yet supple steel frame, less so with Al and C. Steel also has the "advantage" of coming in tubes - therefore the builder is limited by the tube diameter and wall thickness and material propertied. Compare this with hydroformed Al or even C which can be formed into very complicated shaped and varying thicknesses. There are less variables with steel therefore the the builder has more ability to "tune" the frame. Although there are companies (i'm thinking Unno, Banshee, Nicolai) who are doing this with C and Al. Steel is a great material for building hardtails as its supple, robust and understood as a material. Al can also be built to be supple and I think we will see more supple Al hardtails in the future - i'm thinking Banshee, Santa Cruz, Nicolai etc. However at the moment I would bet a large chunk of hardtails are steel I think what Joe at Starling has managed to do is blend the supple feeling of steel with the simplicity of a hardtail (single pivot). This just happened to be done in a shed in Bristol however it could have happened anywhere - i'm thinking Dan Stanton (if he hadn't gone multi link), Walt, Sklar... the list goes on. At some point it would have happened. I think single pivot FS frames attract hardtail riders due to the simplicity and use of steel as a material. Hardtail riders are probably more supportive (fanatical) of their material of choice (steel) than riders of Al and C bikes. Are Starlings any better than multi pivot bikes - probably not - maybe they're 90% as good as a suspension design but make up for it with good shocks (i've seen a lot of Starlings on the web with Ohlins) and a nice amount of flex (lateral and vertical - I think the curved seat stays act like a leaf spring when bottomed out). Maybe soon we will see Al and C bikes designed in a similar way where the suspension system is less important and ride quality is the focus - however given the general trend for "more" maybe not. Maybe the "Starling Fallacy" would be a good podcast - It would be interesting to hear Joe's thoughts on the subject.