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July 7, 2021, 1:16 p.m. -  delusional

This seems to largely be a confusion about what we actually mean by effective reach? Is effective reach the vertical distance from the centre of the bottom bracket to the centre of the grips? Or is it the portion of that distance that occurs between the centre of the bottom bracket and the centre of the steerer tube? In the case of the former, adding rise doesn't change the effective reach. In the case of the latter it seems to shift effective reach to effective stem length. That, of course, relies on measuring effective stem length at the height of the centre of the grips not at the stem clamp point. I think that makes the most sense here, but I'm no engineer. It seems like most of these measurements are probably useful though, and the major issue we have is around terminology once we're discussing bikes-as-ridden rather than frames-as-sold?

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