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Jan. 5, 2021, 6:20 p.m. -  Tehllama42

I think you're onto something there - shorter chainstays do make it somewhat easier to make weight shifts that load the rear axle (and unload the front axle), which makes a bike feel more nimble in ye olde parking lot test, and for riders who do use the pick & place style more, it's not a bad thing.  For climbing, that's also a broadly decent trait until you're grip limited. The moment a tiny weight shift unloads the front tire while going downhill, it gets less fun - ditto on technical climbing, which is part of why I think the 'Keep ETT the same by moving seat tube angles steeper' mindset has caught on, it's basically just covering up that tendency. I guess I'm back to the self-congratulating camp after realizing that I can actually two-wheel drift a bike and that the contact patch authority required to do that is worth the loss in 'agility', but honestly, 486mm reach (760mm front center) and 452mm CSL makes that task plenty easy compared to short bikes where I can't do that. I think the steep actual seat tubes matter more than effective, being long of leg - right direction, but I feel like many designs (especially bent seat tube) designs are really just making up a deficiency in that for somebody with a 34" or longer inseam, the realistic eSTA was <69° in old designs, it's now finally in the 71-73 range for those bikes, and people are just misinterpreting that.

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