EDITORIAL
Zero Darco Thirty
ZERO
Chromag's first full-suspension-hardtail was long the worst kept secret in the Shore-to-Sky corridor other than, perhaps, the same brand's clip-in pedals. There was a period, months before the actual launch, when I couldn't go two days without being asked if I knew when the bike was going to be released, and what it looked like. Here I would like to issue a couple of apologies.
First, to the fellow at Bean Around The World who I convinced that the Darco was an idler-equipped version of the 1991 Cannondale SE1000 with a 140mm Pike up front, because it, and I quote, "provides the best combination of high pivot suspension and hardtail aesthetic," I'm sorry. In my defense, you were sort of pushy and I actually had zero idea what suspension system Darco was using. Second, to my friend who I convinced that the pending Darco was just modern geometry applied to a 1998 World Force VR-1. I'm sorry, but in my defense, I think it could have been really cool.
There are a bunch of others but I feel particularly bad about those two because the buy-in was hot and heavy. So yeah, if one of your riding buddies tried earnestly to convince you that the Darco was going to look like an early '90s Cannondale or a late '90s dual-link DH rig, that may have been my fault.
While I had no idea what the Darco looked like, I did have a solid answer to the second most asked question that I fielded about it. "How badly do you want to review it?" The answer surprised everyone from Publisher-Pete to strangers but frankly, my interest was absolute zero.
Don't hear me wrong, I was razor-keen to ride the Darco. I still am. What hardtail-lover wouldn't want to throw a leg over the hold-out brand's first full suspension rig? But reviewing it was a can't-win situation.
Navigating fanboys and haters aside, Chromag puts a ton of time and energy into their stuff and it's fair to assume that anything they make suits their terrain and riding very well. So any potentially unfavorable Darco review would essentially consist of explaining the differences between Whistler and North Shore riding or the peculiarities of my riding style.
DARCO
Reviewing the Darco instantly presents a challenge, which comes down to comparable bikes. By travel numbers, there's an argument that the Darco is an over-forked competitor for a Transition Spur, Canyon Lux Trail, or any number of what Cooper would call 'Shore Country' bikes which combine aggressive pedaling platforms with aggressive geometry. Or, I suppose it could be compared to longer travel bikes like the Trek Fuel EX or Santa Cruz High Tower with the rear suspension tuned to be very stiff.
But there's also an argument that the Darco should be compared against similarly aggressive hardtail frames. The purchaser chooses to accept more weight, more cost, and more complexity to enjoy a ride that's less harsh on their body but can still be ridden like it has a rigid backend. In his review, Cooper called it "the hardtail for people getting softer." How the front and rear suspension are 'balanced' doesn't matter if you think of the bike as a hardtail with some suspension in the back.
If I could change one thing about the Darco, it might be to give it less travel. Embrace the 'soft tail' nature, remove any questions and comparisons to true full suspension bikes, and possibly lighten it up by adding some flex stays and removing some pivots." - Cooper Quinn
The idea that the Darco is a hard bike to cross-shop is not original; Cooper brings it up clearly in his review. He also brings up the idea of a shorter travel Darco that Chromag's founder, Ian Ritz, has also mentioned. A simpler, shorter-travel bike may speak to the more forgiving hardtail potential.
Specifically, Cooper wrote, "if I could change one thing about the Darco, it might be to give it less travel. Embrace the 'soft tail' nature, remove any questions and comparisons to true full suspension bikes, and possibly lighten it up by adding some flex stays and removing some pivots."
This nicely toasted whole-grain introduction to Cooper's review, unfortunately, serves as a base for a bit of a shit sandwich that I've been rolling around since it went live (sorry, Cooper). Cooper has plenty of experience with aggressive shorter-travel bikes and he's a much better bike rider than I am, but I have the distinct feeling that getting the most out of the Darco comes down to attitude, just like riding a hardtail.
A couple of quotes from Cooper's review.
"Hardtails can be great fun"
"Chromag was founded on a bike built for the terrain and riding style of the founder Ian Ritz... the ever-present lineup of steel hardtails where you can pick your country of origin – Canada or Taiwan. They’ve carved a niche as the epitome of cool, even if most people don’t actually want to ride a hardtail."
At this point, again without having ridden the Darco myself, I was thinking that asking Cooper to review a hardtail is like asking me to review an e-bike. If you haven't bought into the basic concept, then there's going to be a spark missing. By extension, asking Cooper to review a hardtail with rear suspension is like asking me to review an e-bike with the battery removed - it's a closer approximation to something I like, but it's unlikely to light my fire.
THIRTY
The Darco that NSMB had for review evaporated before I even saw the thing in person, so I never did throw a leg over it. I love climbing my full-suspension bike out of the saddle, and I love riding hardtails, and I don't really give two shakes about relative bike weights, so it seems like we could have matched up nicely.
Then one day I was working on my Marin Rift Zone, and I started wondering if I could approximate an experience close to the Darco. My large 2022 Rift Zone has 125mm rear travel and is designed around a 130mm fork. In the stock format, it sports a 65.5° head tube angle (HTA), a 76° seat tube angle (STA), and a 480mm Reach. But, with a -2° angleset and an extra 30mm of fork travel?
Here I will note that Marin's warranty covers an extra +10mm of fork travel. I am unconcerned about over-forking this frame but it is a personal decision that is covered by plain sense life rules such as:
- If you modify then you can't cry
- Drill the hole, pay the bill
- Modification rejects are not manufacturing defects
- Measure twice, cut the whining
- <<Insert your own parentism here>>
How much travel is too much travel is an interesting question I can't yet answer. I did quite love my Honzo ST hardtail with a -2° angleset, 170mm Durolux, and 3" front tire, so I'm probably not the best person to answer questions about 'balance'.
Over-forking the Rift Zone changed a lot about how it rides. Previously it was very well balanced but with the addition of the longer travel Durolux EQ up front I found that I had to add quite a bit of air pressure to the rear shock. This wasn't just to maintain my current sag % with the taller front end - which I compensated for with a low-rise bar - but also to deal with a 'choppering' effect on rough sections of trail.
The net effect was that my previous rear sag range of 23-25% rear ended up being closer to 20% and my 5" travel Rifty felt less like a full suspension bike and more like a hardtail. Would designing a Darco around a 120mm fork have the opposite effect of making the rear suspension less soft-tail-like? Maybe.
In my notes, I had intended to now write about where the Rift Zone is better and where it is worse with my extra 30mm of fork travel. But my conclusion is that it's really just different. It's faster and more capable in some downhill situations compared to the stock Rift Zone or riding my hardtail. Other times, the rear suspension feels particularly harsh where it was smooth in conjunction with balanced fork travel.
It's not a rocket ship like the We Are One Arrival or a proper mini-sled like riding a Bronson or Stumpy Evo where you almost start to wonder why the companies make Nomads and Enduros. It's also not a Tallboy, Spur, or, well, even a Marin Rift Zone when it comes to being a 5" travel trail bike capable of bigger things.
In the end, my sentiments are surprisingly similar to Cooper's, though I love-love riding hardtails. I prefer my Rifty with the suspension balanced and while it's a perfectly fun and capable mountain bike in its 'Darczone' guise, I'd rather ride a hardtail or a longer travel rig, or my Rift Zone with the stock travel. I'd also be keen to try a simple 'soft-tail' design with closer to 80mm of travel and minimal if any, bearing pivots. There are some neat opportunities for leaf springs and flex stays for this application.
I've reviewed plenty of products for NSMB that were fantastic but not for me, and I'd hazard to say that a full-suspension-hardtail qualifies in that category for now. But, will there come a time when I can't regularly ride a hardtail that I'd take 80-120mm of efficient travel out back to get a hardtail-like experience? Absolutely.
In the meantime, would I still be keen to ride the Darco, Trunnion-shock mount and all? Indeed. I'd love to see how it compares to my mix-matched fork Rifty experiment if nothing else.
Comments
Velocipedestrian
1 year, 7 months ago
I feel somewhat obligated to post this.
Compared to the Darczone, 10mm less fork travel, 10mm lower spacer stack, 50mm riser bar.
I'm totally stoked on the ride. I was getting rattled hard trying to go fast on my Moxie in firm summer conditions, and this has compensated for my lack of skills nicely.
Reply
Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
Hahaha. The first time I saw your Rifty I almost fell out of my chair. Like minds, great ideas and all that. Are you running an Angleset too? I’ve started to wonder if I took it a bit too far.
You’ve got that sweet little coil on there too. I did wonder if a coil would make a difference as I went to less sag in the rear - just in terms of being initially a bit more supple. Not taking away from how great the CCDB (IL) air is, just coil is coil.
Reply
Velocipedestrian
1 year, 7 months ago
Yes and yes.
It's a - 2° Works Components in a fetching teal. Makes for ~63° static. I've been farting around with spring rates, currently at 550lb linear, and contemplating a Cane Creek 550-670lb progressive. Less travel / less sag means I want as little breakaway force as possible.
Reply
Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
Right, so very similar setups!
The issue with progressive springs on fairly progressive frames is it ends up feeling like hitting a wall sometimes (“why do I keep blowing my feet off the pedals without bottoming?”).
I’d recommend sticking with more linear spring and adding a bigger bottom out bumper like the cones that Avalanche Racing used to sell.
Reply
Velocipedestrian
1 year, 7 months ago
Good tip.
I haven't been able to find the leverage curve, I'm just sliding the bumper up the shaft as a travel indicator, so I can't see the difference between 80% and full travel.
I haven't felt it bottom with this spring, maybe I'll just keep an eye out for a 575 and a 600 to try.
Reply
Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
The bottom out bumper can only compress 50% so you shouldn’t ever feel it hard bottom. A taller bumper will reduce travel a bit but add a nicer cushion.
Geof Harries
1 year, 7 months ago
I had a 2016 Kona Hei Hei that I adored. The Hei Hei felt very much like a hardtail with its 100mm of rear suspension.
Far from plush. Just enough travel to take the edge off, like you describe. I rode it everywhere, including on trails I probably shouldn’t have.
Head angle was 67 degrees, I think. 120mm fork.
I sold the Hei Hei as I broke the rear triangle and got that replaced under warranty. I figured I should get something beefier to suit my stature.
Years later now, and after reading your article here, I realize how amazingly capable, ahead of its time and fun that little bike was.
The Hei Hei too was a bike to be ridden like a hardtail, and not like a Process or some other long travel sqush machine.
Reply
Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
Thanks for sharing this Geof!
Good reminder of how far we can get on a little bike when we don’t know better (or know better, but choose to ignore facts).
I have a friend who has been talking about angleset-ing and over-forking a current flex-stay carbon Hei Hei since they came out.
Reply
cyclotoine
1 year, 7 months ago
Hey Geof! A friend of mine (also a Yukoner) went through three rear triangles on a hei hei before selling it. They should have recalled those in my opinion. He also loved that bike, so much so that he is shopping for some kind of more xc oriented bike because after more than two years he still misses it.
Reply
Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
Sounds like the backend should have been steel if they were going to rely on a flex-pivot?
Reply
WalterWhite
1 year, 7 months ago
My Darco LTD had the fork bumped to 160mm, was told by the Chromag guys that some people had theirs set up that way. That seems crazy, a 120mm travel bike with a 160mm fork but it is absolutely amazing. It also doesn’t feel like 120mm of travel.
Reply
Velocipedestrian
1 year, 7 months ago
Any crazier than the 150/0 mismatch of one of their hardtails?
If it rides good, it's good.
Reply
Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
If it rides good, it's good.
If it riders good to you, it's good.
Reply
Velocipedestrian
1 year, 7 months ago
Of course.
Reply
fartymarty
1 year, 7 months ago
Walter - John Watson's review https://theradavist.com/chromag-darco-29er-review/ said a similar thing - albeit very different from Coopers take. His comparisons to his Murmur and SST are also interesting.
Reply
Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
Different catalogue of bikes for a comparison. Coopers 170mm Arrival is likely lighter weight than any of steel bikes referenced and apparently (I haven’t ridden one) if you’re sitting the 170 pedals as well as a 152… but has 170mm front and rear.
The 120mm bikes he was comparing it to are certainly much lighter weight and I’d believe snappier pedaling.
Not that anyone’s right or wrong, it’s just the Darco isn’t any of those machines. I do think, aside from riding a Darco, a project like Darczone is probably the closest way to approximate the experience.
Reply
fartymarty
1 year, 7 months ago
Fair enough. It's bikes like the Darco that interest me more as there are different opinions on them depending on where you are coming from where as something more mainstream is less Marmite.
Reply
lookseasyfromhere
1 year, 7 months ago
I got my Murmur with the adjustable shock mount so I could run it from 140/127 up to 170/145, but now I'm curious about 170/127...
Reply
Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
Sounds awesome, but how will you know? Now you have to do it and report back!
Reply
fartymarty
1 year, 7 months ago
I'd be interested to hear how it goes - I would be tempted to try the same with mine if it's good.
Reply
lookseasyfromhere
1 year, 7 months ago
I will. But don't anticipate a report too eagerly. I'd say a new fork is at least a year away.
Reply
fartymarty
1 year, 7 months ago
I may try it in mine wiht 160 up front. I can swap the coil for an air shock and crank up the pressure so it only gets 120 travel. Maybe something to try in summer.
Reply
Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
You’re required to do it now and report back, Marty!
Reply
fartymarty
1 year, 7 months ago
Will do once I get it built up.
My hypothesis is it wont be that great on the Murmur as it needs all of the 140mm of rear travel to keep up with the Öm2 coil up front especially at 160mm. 140/120 maybe interesting as a short travel bruiser.
Let's see though.
Reply
LAT
1 year, 7 months ago
i was pondering something similar on mine, but using a 210x50 or 52.5 shock. the cost of modding the shock put me off.
Reply
fartymarty
1 year, 7 months ago
I generally run an cÖil on the Murmur but have a fully stuffed RS air can that I can pump up to 300psi which reduces the travel. It's a 5 minute swap so easy to do.
Reply
Karl Fitzpatrick
1 year, 7 months ago
I'm sure I've mentioned this before but I put a 150mm fork on a Transition Double (100mm setting) a few years ago and rode it EVERYWHERE.
The only thing that made me sell it on after a couple of years of good times was how short it was.
I'm now on a second hand Peruvian Marino frame which would have 160mm of travel if I didn't put so much air into the shock. Pretty sure it's getting 120-130mm maximum.
Don't ask me about shims/spacers/compression tunes etc. I ain't no suspension connoisseur. Like a few geniuses have already said, if it's good, it's good. And boy is it nice to let 'er roll when I'm feeling just a little too old for the HT.
Reply
silverbansheebike
1 year, 7 months ago
Awesome article as always! I totally thought the Darco would be a bike for you, but I think it's really cool you got close with the Marin anyways
Reply
Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
I’d still be keen to try it!
Reply
69tr6r
1 year, 7 months ago
I am running a Banshee Phantom V2 that I over-shocked to 120mm rear travel. I also run 27.5x2.6 wheels/tires. This allowed me to run a Fox 36 (27.5) set at 170mm travel. I absolutely love it! It is the next best thing to a hardtail.
I run the rear dropouts in the tall/steep setting and my BB height is around 335mm, and head angle seems to be about 68 which is same as stock.
I'm hoping more companies get on the short travel/big fork bandwagon.
Reply
[email protected]
1 year, 7 months ago
Would it be possible to get a bike check on the Marin? Maybe a brief history of it and some of your favorite configurations you've had it in?
I am always curious when I see it in the articles and would love to hear more about it.
Wonderful article as always
Reply
Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
Thanks for the props!
I’m happy to answer any questions about my Rifty but as a rule we don’t write about/review our own bikes on NSMB.
Exceptions have been made when there was a lot of reader interest - AJ’s GeoMetron for example - but it’s good to stick to.
Reply
[email protected]
1 year, 7 months ago
That makes sense, I am more thankful for the bike reviews and breakdowns that we have gotten then.
Especially the waltworks v2, what a beautiful build. I think it has definitely inspired some more people to go rigid ss.
That build makes me want a rigid ss, hopefully coming in due time
Reply
Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
Cheers!
I don't know about single-speeding, folks seem to either get it or they don't and not everyone has the right combination of brute force and stupidity to pull it off. I get a bit of correspondence from folks asking about gearing or just getting started.
Rigid forks, I feel, are taking off. I had more correspondence last year about rigid forks than anything else. For some folks, it's livening up their terrain. For some folks, it's simplifying or re-discovering their favourite activity. It's awesome.
The one thing I say to riders thinking seriously about going rigid who live anywhere with aggressive terrain and who are going to ride a 29'er over 27" rig, is to pick up at least a rim and front tire ASAP. It's getting harder and harder to track down aggressive 29+ rubber.
I really like the Race Face ARC 40 Offset rim (still readily available) and I'm hoping WTB will still bring back the 2.8" Vigilante Light/HighGrip (there's still a SKU for it).
Reply
markvp
1 year, 7 months ago
Hello Andrew! Been following nsmb since I came to Saskatoon,SK Canada 7yrs ago.. just made an account just to make this comment.. Because I have a 2021 rift zone 2 and was wondering what if I got the 3 instead but really short and n budget that time and got 2 bikes (rift zone, hawk hill) for me and my wife instead of a higher end bike just for myself.
Maybe you guys can make an article about staff rides and different versions of it or best set up and for what purpose? Or what parts (reviewed) worked best for your frame/riding style?
My rift zone is so stock im not sure if the oem vee tires are really holding me back in rolling resistance or just me not fit enough.. but for sure the 2.35 vee tire have superb grip vs the 2.25 rangers I had with my previous GT avalanche 29er.
And another thing about hardtails, Do I need the rift zone for my local trails? The GT Avalanche was sufficient and fast stock! But since friends ask me to fix their bikes all FS I thought I’ll be a legit mechanic if I have a CAD2500 bike bs a CAD750 bike? Now im laughing at my self.
Looking forward to buy chromag parts for my RiftZone!
Thanks!
Reply
Lu Kz
1 year, 7 months ago
" as a rule we don’t write about/review our own bikes on NSMB."
Ok, send it to me for a weekend and I'll write the bike check for it and anything I don't know I'll just make up.
Edit: Actually, if I'm making up what I don't know, no need to send it to me. Already saved a step!
Reply
Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
I'm really bad at sharing bikes - even test bikes. It takes me a long time to get things just how I like them. Still, remember a friend jumping on my Explosif and reaching forward and adjusting the angle on the Formula R0R brake lever I had JUST gotten into the right position (I leave my levers loose enough to move in a crash).
I'm thinking it's just absent-minded fidgeting so I call it out and he says "yes, but they weren't even." AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! My levers usually aren't perfectly even, but they feel even - apparently, my hands/arms are the braking equivalent of oval chainrings.
Anyway, I'm really bad at sharing bikes.
Reply
Cam McRae
1 year, 7 months ago
TBF, and as mentioned, that rule is highly malleable.
Reply
Kenny
1 year, 7 months ago
Cool exercise! As another 40's rider who has a lot of love and nostalgia towards steel hard tails, I feel similarly torn on the Darco. I'm the target demographic but I'm not sure I like that. Haha.
In the mismatched rifty photo, I can't help but notice there looks to be almost zero BB drop. That's one of the main things throwing the comparison out of whack imo. BB height on that thing looks sky high?
One of my favorite things about short travel bikes is that the bottom bracket height stays within a smaller window, dynamically vs statically, so it can be, on average, quite low, which personally I love even with its tradeoffs on the shore.
Reply
Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
I think we’ll see BB heights go up as rear-center lengths grow over the next few years (I’m still assuming they’ll grow) and I certainly don’t mind the extra but if height on the trail, but that’s a great point compared to Darco.
I’d really like to try a 150/80 split with a simple flex pivot rear end. I think Cooper’s right about embracing the soft-tail for the ‘tired’ hardtail lover. Could maybe even single-speed the 80mm travel bike!
Reply
Velocipedestrian
1 year, 7 months ago
Mismatched meaning mine?
BBH is 335mm with the 29x2.4/2.5 tyres, so ~40mm drop.
Reply
sverdrup
1 year, 7 months ago
Looking back, when I am regularly riding a long-travel full squish, I am also fanatical about bike setup and achieving a "balanced" feel. I always want my rig to feel predictable in order to ride closer to my own personal edge, but chasing changing suspension feel with temp, altitude, servicing, etc, can feel like an endless loop that sometimes took away from my enjoyment of the riding itself.
I have gravitated towards a Chromag with an angleset and a 170mm fork, and don't give a hoot about balance any longer. Maybe because now I don't have a rear shock I have to worry about, or maybe because riding a hardtail requires a different position on the bike, I dunno. But I find it refreshing that I can just grip it and rip it, and not feel like I am always chasing my tail with finding balance.
Reply
Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
“I find it refreshing that I can just grip it and rip it, and not feel like I am always chasing my tail with finding balance.”
Interesting take. I ran the fork with the same settings I used on the Titan and then put ‘enough’ air in the shock and rode it - so my experience is the same in this regard.
Reply
Cooper Quinn
1 year, 7 months ago
It sounds like your Darco simulacrum was a success.
Although I'd wonder how much of this (and I'm aware this applies equally to my review and ANY review) is you... building and finding what you wanted to find? But maybe that's the best way to do this experiment, too?
Reply
Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
Totally. It’s why I’d be keen to ride the Darco as a comparison.
Someday when I’m old (hahaha) I’m commissioning the soft-tail. 150mm front / 80mm rear.
Reply
06hokieMTB
1 year, 7 months ago
Thoughts on how a Ripley AF frame fits in this conversation as a mis-matched platform to build on?
Coming from long, low, slack steel hardtails with 140-150 forks... I find myself wondering if a Ripley AF with a 140-150 Lyrik and maybe a -1* headset would ride at 20% sag out back. The build would be in similar spirit as the Rift mentioned here: enough rear travel to take the sting off, but not enough to truly try to compete with a longer travel bike. Also, being a DW Link, you'd have to believe that it would be efficient and would provide a traction advantage over a steel hardtail.
Reply
Velocipedestrian
1 year, 7 months ago
Only one way to find out...
Reply
thaaad
1 year, 7 months ago
All I know is that it's been hard to resist selling my bikes to buy one.
For no logical reason.
Reply
Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
A Darco? How many bikes would it replace?
Reply
thaaad
1 year, 7 months ago
Yeah the Darco :) It would replace my Range and Fluid. Would just be down to 1 bike.
Reply
Velocipedestrian
1 year, 7 months ago
With the best parts off both? Making one marvellous machine.
Reply
Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
Interesting, because it would have less rear-wheel travel than either of those bikes?!
Wait, you did say "no logical reason" so let me retract that thought and say I whole heartily support your quest for something different.
Reply
thaaad
1 year, 7 months ago
I just don't think I need a bike a big as the Range, the Fluid is a nice bike but doesn't excite me, and I've regret selling my Wideangle for years.
Wondering if I can catch some of the Chromag magic again in a little more forgiving package
Oh, and my ever increasing quest to downsize our belongings.
Reply
Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
I think that’s both the appeal of the Darco and also the potential of an even shorter travel flex-stay version.
Especially as a hardtail lover than wants a bit of forgiveness or a rider dedicated to having one bike for everything.
My V2 with a front end hot swap (120mm fork / wheel / front brake) is five minutes from being one bike to do most but there’s still rides and trails where I’d rather not give up on having a full suspension option. Maybe?
fartymarty
1 year, 7 months ago
thaaad - There is a perfectly logical reason - It's a Chromag Full Sus bike and it looks amazing.
That would be reason enough for me (and to overlook any deficiencies).
Reply
thaaad
1 year, 7 months ago
That's basically been the driving reason since I saw it ha ha
Reply
fartymarty
1 year, 7 months ago
I'm guessing you've read https://theradavist.com/chromag-darco-29er-review/. Definitely a different take.
Reply
thaaad
1 year, 7 months ago
Yeah I saw that one too, seems to be pretty well liked by most.
Reply
Velocipedestrian
1 year, 7 months ago
This comment has been removed.
Karl Fitzpatrick
1 year, 7 months ago
This comment has been removed.
Karl Fitzpatrick
1 year, 7 months ago
This comment has been removed.
Please log in to leave a comment.