Marin El Roy Manitou Mattoc Pro NSMB Andrew Major
REVIEW

Yep, That's Still Rad!

Photos Andrew Major (Unless Noted)
Reading time

Rollovers

For myriad reasons, I'm behind on writing some gear reviews. I find myself with all the ingredients for review rollovers with ye olde NSMB recipe. First, take all the standard excuses. Then add that the trails here on the North Shore have been irresistible this fall. Mix in some unique justifications for each item, and put it all in the oven. And I thought that whilst they were piping fresh, why not sprinkle on some updates?

Hopefully, we can enjoy an appetizer without spoiling our meal. Originally I was going to serve a half-dozen of these, but Shimano LinkGlide M8130 is a lot more filling than I thought it was going to be, so I'll bring it out later as a stand-alone dish.

Showers Pass EcoLyte Vest Banshee Enigma NSMB Andrew Major by Meg Taylor

My Banshee Enigma review is the only piece that's delayed for selfish reasons. Thank goodness they don't do model years. Photo - Meg & Steve

Manitou Mattoc Pro

Like generic star ratchet hub drivers and BOA-knockoffs, we're sitting on the cusp of a reverse arch revolution thanks to the expiration of the patent. In the next model year look for Fox Racing Shox to expand their 'backward' suspension forks from gravel to XC models and it likely won't be long before the stiffness-to-weight benefits have them flipping their whole lineup around.

I have it on good authority that they won't be the only ones as brands chase the next big swing of the does-bicycle-weight-matter pendulum. In particular, look for light-and-super-stiff reverse arch e-bike-rated forks, like this Mattoc Pro, to help drive the highest-priced SL motor-assisted rigs into the weight territory of the average meat-powered bike with the same travel application.

Manitou has, of course, been doing their Reverse Arch suspension forks for ages but combined with the new, old, graphics and polished crowns, it's the latest options like this Mattoc Pro and the Mezzer Pro that get all the attention.

I keep saying that I'll do my Mattoc Pro teardown when it starts feeling like it's due for a service, and at that point, I'll write the review. The fork just keeps feeling awesome. It's quite bizarre because I'm known to sometimes cut service intervals in half to keep my stuff feeling fresh - it's a maximum service interval, not a minimum service interval.

On top of feeling fresh well past its best-before date, this is the best riding fork I've ever been on. That's ignoring the unique spring and damping needs of different categories of suspension travel, but even compared to other current Manitou forks like the R7 and the Mezzer, this Mattoc Pro is magical in being a supple, smooth, stiff, supportive, stand-up piece of suspension.

The stiffness profile pairs beautifully with both the Kamloopsian carbon We Are One A130, and my steel Marinster Truck hardtail. Also, the two previous forks that I found most inspirational are the original Ohlins RXF 34 and, previous to that, my custom Fox Float 34 TALAS-V with an Avalanche DH cartridge. Is it a coincidence that they all had 140mm of travel and 34mm stanchions?

OhlinsRXF34_AMajor_NSMB_KazYamamura-10.jpg?w=1600

I loved this 140mm travel Ohlins RXF 34 fork in 2016. The Intense Carbine was pretty rad too. Very much a predecessor to my WeR1 Arrival A130 experience. Photo: Kaz Yamamura

Honzo Single Speed 2013 NSMB Andrew Major

My single-speed had a lot going on in 2013. The custom SuspensionWerx'd Fox 34 TALAS-V with just a 15mm spread between travel settings and an Avalanche Racing damper was key.

Banshee Enigma

My Enigma review series is delayed by what I'm calling 'The Ballet Of Bicycle Parts' but is in reality just my basic desire to ride it back-to-back with my Waltworks V2, with the same build, so I can dig deeper into chainstay length.

There are times, on the most aggressive trails that I'll ride a rigid mountain bike down, that I miss the extra 2" of rear center, and wheelbase, on my otherwise almost identical personal bike. There are times, especially on tighter and twistier XC trails or flowier blue trails when the super-short stays on the Banshee are a hoot. I've been riding all the same trails on both.

When my Walt is back from repair, I'm planning to move the parts from the Enigma to the V2 and then move the parts from my Marinster Truck to the Enigma, so I can talk about the bike with a suspension fork.

Thank goodness Banshee doesn't do model years! Speaking of, from the geometry chatter I've been hearing lately, it sounds like maybe the long-chainstay, -1° angle-setted, Banshee Titan I reviewed in '21 was featuring the geometry of the future.

9Point8 Fall Line Dropper

It goes up, it goes down, and it's as tight and smooth as on day dot. In other words, when it comes to the 9Point8 Fall Line Dropper post, I have exactly nothing to report. I supposed I can say to anyone who told me I'd bend saddle rails that the ones on this BikeYoke Sagma Lite are still arrow-straight.

When I look at the Fall Line I can certainly imagine a shorter seal head assembly and the head being re-designed to drop the rails more. Let's face it, for a lot of folks buying dropper posts the key concern is maximum drop for minimum length, something that Wolf Tooth and OneUp currently own. But I also see an Ontario, Canada brand doing their own thing, and absolutely owning their niche, and I love that. I see this post changing my relationship with a lot of test bikes as companies continue to approach, much too steep for me, 80° effective seat tube angles.

What does 9Point8 need to do to the Fall Line in general? Find some way to squeeze the guts into a 27.2 body with 80mm of travel so that all my friends with too-steep seat tube angles on their gravel bikes can get the right fit and a dropper post.

NSBillet Talon Cranks

As bizarre as it seems, North Shore Billet's Whistler, B.C., Canada-made crankset is a polarizing piece component. Some folks don't like how they're made. Crank arms, spindles, lock rings, chainrings, and BB cups are machined from high-grade aluminum billet rather than being forged and post-machined, as part of NSB making them as in-house as possible.

Some folks don't like what they cost, compared to crankarms that aren't made in Whistler, BC, Canada. Admittedly not the cheapest place to make anything but an awesome place to live, work, and play for those who design parts and run machines for the previously North Shore-based business.

Others seem upset about how much they weigh for the price, which is a component of passing the level of testing that NSBillet felt was necessary for what their employees, sponsored riders, and customers were going to be putting the product through.

There are many options for cranks on the market both more budget-friendly and more boutique, and some of them are also made in North America. But the Talon's are unique both by their aggressive intended application and the use of the excellent Race Face CINCH chainring interface.

These are the only cranks I can remember ever being regularly asked about. They look amazing, have a great story, and are high quality. If the price of entry isn't a barrier, you aren't concerned about a few grams, and they stoke your fire, there's no reason not to buy them. Well, except they don't come in a 175mm length.

Enduro MaxHit Headset

I only get asked about this one by folks I know working in shops. It's not light. It doesn't come in pretty colours. It's not the min-max winner which is a title I'd give to either the Cane Creek Forty or the Wolf Tooth Performance headsets, depending on if colours are a factor.

I hit a bit of a mix-up with the MaxHit since I've been running the same upper cup but had to swap lower cups from an external (EC) 44mm to an internal (ZS) 56mm to run it in the Banshee Enigma. Either way, as expected, I've had zero issues with the novel stainless steel headset that uses the cup itself as an outer bearing race.

I semi-regularly recommend this headset, particularly for riders on big-travel, big-hit, bikes whether they be very-long-travel single crowns or dual-crown forks. In addition to being beef-cake, the stainless steel construction is bombproof. Certainly, it's usable for any mountain bike application, but for less brutal riding, if I'm spending the money I've never had an issue with high-quality aluminum cups and I am a sucker for bright anodized colours.

Your preference may vary. For more information on what's going in inside the Enduro MaxHit, please check out my previous hit.

Enduro Maxhit Stainless Headset Cups NSMB Andrew Major

I think the ZS44/EC44 version of the MaxHit is stunning with its stainless steel cups that double as outer bearing races. I do love bright anodized colours, but this has a unique-and-boutique look to it.

Enduro Maxhit Stainless Headset Cups NSMB Andrew Major (2)

It's all steel and has a lifetime warranty to backup claims of bombproofiness. Perfect for any mountain bike application but in particular long-travel suspension and big hits, or brutal rigid-forked Enduro riding (haha).

Now that I've successfully pushed all of that forward! Thank you for all the engagement in 2023. I have a few more pieces I'll be submitting this year and I'm looking forward to continuing these reviews as well as looking in on Shimano XT LinkGlide M8130, the Devinci Chainsaw HP&I Enduro+ rig, and a few other interesting bits and bobs early in the new year.

As always, I'd love to respond to feedback and questions about these products, or others I'm riding, in the comments.

Cheers!

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major

Height - Steve Buscemi-ish

Wait - Patiently

Ape Index - T-Rex

Age - The same as DOS

Favourite Trail(s) every week - Pipeline (thank you Ken!) to Lower Crippler (thank you Andy!)

Favourite Song(s) this week - I'm Your Man. Nick Cave (covering Leonard Cohen)

Favourite Colour - Cosmic Lilac

Bar Width - It depends

Reach & Stack & ETT - It depends

Crank Length - 175mm except when it's 170mm

Wheel Size - Hot For Mullets

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Comments

Wapti
+11 Andrew Major Pete Roggeman DanL Cr4w Skooks Velocipedestrian Timer Metacomet turboshart Hardlylikely DancingWithMyself

Looking forward to another year ahead for the whole NSMB team.

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AndrewMajor
0

Cheers!

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vincentaedwards
+6 Andrew Major BarryW Cr4w Skooks Timer DancingWithMyself

Thanks for your honest and excellent reviews this year! From LinkGlide to Transmission… Steel Marin hardtail to Arrival 140. 

__

I’ve read that the LinkGlide 5130GS Derailleur might play well with the LG-300 11-48 10-speed cassette and 5130 or 8130 shifter. 

I’d be very interested in learning more about this combo if this is true. (Shimano intends the 5130GS to pair with an 11-43 cassette)

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AndrewMajor
+1 Vincent Edwards

I’m looking forward to playing with CUES and also, especially, M5130 but at this point I can only comment first hand on M8130 and would have to rely on Shimano’s stated compatibility for anything else.

Certainly all LG shifters are intercompatible (aside from number of clicks). 

Based on past experiences I’d guess the M5130 GS will shift the 11-48 on a hardtail but maybe not an FS bike where chain growth is an issue. But, just to reiterate, I haven’t laid hands on M5130.

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metacomet
+1 GB

I made a bit of an accidental Linkglide compatibility discovery on my hardtail that I've been meaning to share on here.  Accidental in that I was being lazy when upgrading that bike to Linkglide, and since I already had a more unusual drivetrain combo on there that if it worked it would save me time and a pair of grips, so I figured what the heck, lets try.  

The hardtail started as a 1x11, with the older Shimano XT 11-speed shifter, a 12-speed XT derailleur, and a Sunrace 11-50T 11-speed cassette.  Needed the 12 speed derailleur to clear the 50t cog.  So rather than cut off my push-on grips, I left that shifter and derailleur and just swapped the Sunrace cassette for the LG700 11-50 cassette.   Couple of minor adjustments and I was in business, and only cost me a cassette with this setup.  Fuck Yeah.  

This way it still retains the multi release shift into harder gears from the older 11 speed shifter, no longer derails if I backpedal at all like the previous setup, and just plain shifts better especially under load than the previous setup.  

I also have the Linkglide XT 11-50 on my FS which gives me a direct comparison to the full setup, and they're pretty much exactly the same shifting wise.  In the stand, really being picky maybe the hacked version is sliiiightly slower/louder than the full LG, but its really slight if not noticeable at all in the woods.   Would be interested to hear your thoughts on this hacked version if you have that stuff lying around. 

Next, just to test the compatibility for my own awareness and future reference, I am going to try swapping the M8100 12 speed derailleur for the M8130 Linkglide one I still have sitting in the box and see if that works.  Either way, I will change my fatbike over to Linkglide as well now that I only need another LG700 cassette since I still have the M8130 derailleur and shifter left over from the hacked LG700/8000/8100 drivetrain.

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AndrewMajor
+1 bighonzo

I’ve not had a positive experience mixing LG with HG/HG+ using indexed shifting (11 or 12 spd). I have not tried that exact combination of an 11-spd shifter and 12-spd derailleur.

I don’t know if/when I’ll have an opportunity to try that myself, but I appreciate you sharing your experience.

.

For folks keen to experiment:

The thicker cogs of LG setup have a larger distance between each cog compared to previous 10/11/12 cog spacing. So as good as the LG tooth ramping is, my experiences are that the chain does not mesh properly under load in the full range of gears with stock HG/HG+ setups. 

I always encourage folks to experiment for themselves, but in my experience LG is not compatible with other indexed Shimano setups.

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metacomet
+1 Andrew Major

Yeah I am not exactly sure why it is working the way it is.  Has to be some random combo of all the ratios working together well enough between the cable pull indexing at the shifter, the pull ratio of the cable clamp on the 12-speed mech, and the angle of the parallelogram on the 12-speed mech.  

Random, but its totally working for me.  Maybe the cassette is just forgiving enough with that bit of extra room afforded by the wider-set 11-speed architecture that it still hits every shift fine up and down without additional persuasion, even if perhaps strictly mechanically speaking the chain isn't as perfectly exactly indexed over each cog in every shift as it would be with its own shifter and mech? 

Still, it's not like there is much effective space between the plates of the chain and the teeth of the current cog, and the ramps of the next cog in any gear, and there's not even a hint of clicking or ghost shifting. There's still appropriate space and indexing in each gear.  Effectively, it realistically can't be off more than a couple of hairs at worst if at all anyway.

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AndrewMajor
+1 Metacomet

The cassette is shockingly forgiving to bad setup. I’ll cover it in my review but for commuting LG is going to do an incredible job of shifting even with roached chains and half-seized cables.

That said, there are only so many ratios. It might be that 11HG + 12HG+ = 11LG.

burnskiez
+1 Metacomet

Thanks for sharing, makes me extra interested in LG because I'm trying to track down a set of older CK hubs and the ones with HG freehubs definitely are more common.  A tip for the push on grips, use an air compressor and an air chuck and they come right off.  Old moto trick, plus I use the same harbor freight air chuck to seat all my tubeless tires.  Cleans up messes in the garage too.  Little $3 pos is a miracle worker ha!

AndrewMajor
0

@burnskiez, one thing to be away of (re. older CK hubs) is that if you have a pre-Boost setup the 11spd LinkGlide (and any 12spd) drivetrain will likely not clear the spokes on your wheel. 10spd LG, and any 11spd group, should be fine. 

This is not hard-and-fast, I do know some folks running 12spd on 142x12mm setups. But I also know folks who've had issues.

.

Re. Push-on grips are a little more complicated for me as I glue them on (and wire them) but otherwise, the air compressor is the best way to install and remove them, for sure.

metacomet
+1 Andrew Major

Yeah the grips are glued on. I knew I could separate them with a compressor and some persistence, but the grips were probably never gonna re-adhere after the effort to remove them and they had enough life left in them that it was worth the experiment to try and preserve them.

AndrewMajor
0

@metacomet,

Yes, I should mention that in my next piece on push-on grips. I’ve never salvaged a glued on pair but I’ve rarely needed to try thanks to hinged controls.

metacomet
0

Why-oh-why doesn't Shimano make all of their shifters with a hinged clamp...  So unnecessary.  lol.  If someone made aftermarket hinged clamps for Shimano shifters, I would be a customer.

AndrewMajor
+1 Metacomet

@Metacomet, I've had good results mixing Shimano I-Spec EV shifters with SRAM hinged clamps. It won't work if you're also trying to put a SRAM brake lever on there (puts the shifter in the wrong spot) and it's bulky but from a functional perspective it makes me happy.

AndrewMajor
+2 Metacomet Velocipedestrian

@Metacomet,

But if you want a really clean option, Wolf Tooth actually makes one. 22.2mm hinged clamp to I-Spec EV shifter:

If your current shifter is the standard Shimano clamp you'd need to buy a new cover that's EV and then also buy the WTC clamp, but it's something to keep in mind.

drwelby
0

The 12 speed 6100 RD shifts 11 and 10 speed cassettes just fine using 10 and 11 speed shifters. There's nothing to indicate there's any difference except in finish. If you open up Shimano's product pages for both the 5100 and 6100 and switch between browser tabs, the derailleurs are identical except for a slight change in camera perspective.

metacomet
+1 Andrew Major

I remember looking at those Wolftooth ones now that you mention them, so I went to the site and then remembered why I didnt buy them lest time.  They're $40 a pop, plus I would need the I-spec cover for the shifter which is also about $40, so just the conversion to the hinged clamp would cost $15 more than the whole shifter did in the first place.  Oh well.

AndrewMajor
0

@Metacomet,

Yeah, if you have an I-Spec EV bike and are ditching Shimano brakes the Wolf Tooth clamps are a reasonable value versus other match maker solutions with the advantage of being a stand-alone hinged clamp. But going from the Shimano fixed clamp to them is a significant investment.

HollyBoni
0

Andrew, can we expect a long term Linkglide review soon? I can't find any decent, long term reviews about XT Linkglide (that I would trust).

Reply

Jotegir
+3 Andrew Major Velocipedestrian Cr4w

On the topic of the 9point8 fall line, I'd love to see an officially supported* forward offset option on the full meal deal post rather than the lighter, shorter R model. I actually don't know if I can get used to less than 170mm drop again, particularly if that post is more forward. 9point8 is the forward offset KINGS, It'd be sweet to see them expand the option to the full-line. As someone on the taller end of things who loves to experiment with goon bikes (bigger forks, offset bushings, anglesets, etc), sometimes it would be nice to be able to claw some of the lost STA back, at least closer to stock. 

*rumour has it some non-invasive grinding can have the forward offset head work just fine on the fall line non-R.

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AndrewMajor
+1 Lu Kz

I'll ask about more forward-offset options when I'm talking to them next. I know a few folks who'd buy one if there was a long travel option - fighting that difference between effective vs. actual STA on some frames when long legs are involved.

I like the term 'goon bikes'

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Jotegir
+3 Andrew Major BarryW Velocipedestrian

It's an appropriate term for when you take a primp and proper 120mm trail bike or a razor's edge enduro weapon and do... well, the things we do to bikes to those proper bikes. Drag those knuckles a bit.

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AndrewMajor
0

Yeah, I love it!

Reply

Vikb
+2 mnihiser Andrew Major

Wow. Looking at that Honzo photo it's pretty clear that bike theft was at extreme levels in 2013. ;-)

Thanks for all the great articles in 2023 Andrew. All the best to you and your family for a great 2024.

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AndrewMajor
+1 Vik Banerjee

Hahahaha. I looked EVERYWHERE for a photo of that bike where the Avy cartridge was visible but the fender experiment wasn’t on - specifically thinking of you.

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FlipSide
+1 Andrew Major

All of this is quite exciting! Looking forward reading about all these shiny things.

I love the Talon cranks. I think it's their only product I don't have. They are expensive, yes, but I feel boutique cranks totaly have their place. They can be viewed as the centerpiece of a nice custom build...just like a nice stem can stand out and "make" the build. I still have a pair of raw Middleburn RS7 cranks on my (now) commuter and they are as beautiful and sexy as the first day.

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AndrewMajor
+1 FlipSide

Yeah, I don’t know how many Overlord stems we have in my extended family. Eight, maybe ten. And chainrings too. 

I’m just trying to balance the fact the cranks aren’t a min-max product - they’re significantly more expensive than say a pair of Aeffect R or Shimano Deore cranks that are plenty tough and stiff and even for folks looking to go short-arms there are options like Canfield that are great - with my lust for luxury and the knowledge I’d be amortizing them over forever.

In that sense, it’s a great thing they don’t make 175mm cranks so I don’t have to make a decision to spend money on something I want vs. the awesome but boring XT cranks that serve my needs on my single speed.

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JurgenM
+1 mnihiser

Just wondering: why is a back-arch stiffer/lighter than a front-arch?

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AndrewMajor
+3 Timer shenzhe bighonzo

The short answer is that by putting the arch behind the tire it can be significantly shorter. Shorter = lighter + stiffer.

.

For a longer more interesting read on RA, and Cane Creek essentially saying they’re making the switch, check out this post by Cane Creek CEO and RA-originator Brent Graves:

https://canecreek.com/back-to-the-reverse-arch/

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Flatted-again
0

I’m also curious. Are there any clearance issues between the reverse arch and the frame at full compression?

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AndrewMajor
0

Not that I’ve ever come across. I do always air down my setups (fork and shock) to check clearances.

Between Magura and Manitou I’ve had a fair few RA forks over the last twenty years. They used to have a fair amount of OE spec too and I’ve never come across an issue.

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Flatted-again
+1 Andrew Major

I figured it was something that manufacturers think about when designing the thing, but thought I’d ask! Lighter lowers sounds great to me.

Reply

craw
0

Do you think that means CC's next fork might be a 170mm reverse arch fork? They're due for a new burly fork.

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AndrewMajor
0

My bet is an XC fork first, then a new Helm, then a longer travel fork. With being a brand that mainly sells aftermarket forks you have to hit where the most units are going to roll out.

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ackshunW
0

I’ve seen this logic mentioned many times, and don’t get me wrong I’m a manitou fan, and had one of those first-gen reverse arches! But…. How can it be “shorter”? The crown and axle are working together to hold both sides in alignment, and the distance from axle center to edge-of-tire is the same no matter which direction you go. Brent Graves post doesn’t quite go into detail on it— is there something I’m missing?

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karakoram
+2 Andrew Major Carmel

Fork offset. The wheel is pushed 'forward' so if you put the arch behind the tubes it can be shorter by a little bit. Or you could make it the same length but get a bit more tire clearance. Same idea.

Look at your fork from the side and the difference is small but definitely visible.

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AndrewMajor
+1 Ryan

Look at your fork from the side and the difference is small but definitely visible.”

This is a good prompt to show this clearly in my Mattoc review.

Cheers!

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clipless
+1 Ryan

The one downside with the reverse arch is that without the arch in front, the front wheel 'hook' on Kuat-style racks wants to rub against the fork stanchion. Usually the fork arch prevents this. I recently found this out when loading up my new dirt jumper. Spinning the bars 180 deg was an easy fix, but for regular bikes, it might not be possible unless you have an visually offensive amount of cable slack out front.

[Picture I found of a normal forward arch fork I found online because I'm too lazy to go take a picture.] But you can imagine that without the arch, the wheel hook would touch/rub on the slidey bit of the fork. If I had to do it again, I'd get a OneUp rack that just touches the tires instead. 

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AndrewMajor
0

Kuat may want to look into that given how many bikes - first gravel and XC where it’ll have the biggest impact and then other applications - I presume will go RA in the next few years.

Maybe I’m wrong, but as in ‘08/‘09 I think brands are looking for leaps forward (aesthetic or actual) to fire up riders’ interest.

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generalistg
+1 Andrew Major

This comment has been removed.

AndrewMajor
+2 Generalist Grant dolface

The fender is the one thing that kills me with Manitou forks. They should just include an XL Mucky Nutz with a Manitou graphic on it.

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generalistg
0

This comment has been removed.

AndrewMajor
+2 Generalist Grant dolface

XL Mucky Nutz flipped backwards. Works awesome for me and has better tire clearance. 

A lot of the time I don't run a fender with the RA forks as the arch itself is useful at stopping spray that throws up, but I've jerry-rigged a few different setups that have worked great. I don't have any qualms about zip-ties for fenders though, some folks are happy to get a wrench and tiny hex key out to install/remove theirs in exchange to a less cluttered aesthetic.

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dolface
+1 Andrew Major

I keep hoping Rapid Racing Products will make one for it, in the meantime I'll try the Mucky Nutz.

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shenzhe
+1 Andrew Major

My brother-in-law had that rack for a while and I never had issues with it. I just typically put the hook at approximately the same location as if I had a front-arch. I'd crank it down and it would stay put just fine, but we were typically only driving 30-40 minutes to get to the trailhead and most of that was on paved roads with only a little on dirt, so that may have prevented me from seeing issue others might.

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swangarten@gmail.com
+1 Kyle Smith

I put split foam pipe insulation on my KUAT for either front or reverse arch forks to keep them unsullied

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DanL
+1 Andrew Major

Is the difference in internals for the pro vs expert in mattoc/mezzer construction worth the price difference as well? 
And before I subject it to the tender mercies of the dremel, I cannot find spare crown races for the maxhit headset - is anyone aware of which ones may fit?

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AndrewMajor
+1 DanL

Crown race is the same as Cane Creek. The stock crown race isn’t really split friendly so I run a steel Cane Creek race. 

Pro vs. Expert is always going to depend on the rider but I think the IRT system is worth the difference for North Shore riding for me. Expert is a more set and forget fork though.

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swangarten@gmail.com
0

The main differences are:

1. IRT(3rd air chamber) is in Pro forks and IVA(Volume reducer) is in Expert

2. Pro use Dorado Air while expert use Expert air. Exact same function but Expert Air uses a steel shaft vs al. Its just weight

3. Pro use and MC2 damper while most Expert level forks use VTT. MC2 has a ton of adjustability in high and low speed as well as a preset hydraulic bottom out. VTT does high and low simultaneously and no hydraulic bottom out

There is no difference in chassis between Pro and Expert, only internals

Hopefully that helps

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karakoram
+1 Andrew Major

I love the look of those handlebars! Can you share where they're made and rise/angles?

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AndrewMajor
+1 Ryan

The Cosmic Lilac bar? It’s a custom one that Em at WZRD.bike made for me. The geo is similar to an SQlab -16 30X but with a 40mm rise and a shorter stem than is possible with 31.8.

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velocipedestrian
+1 Andrew Major

Your comment about Judy yellow had me down a rabbit hole. Vague memories of a custom paint job on a Pike DJ - maybe a Vital BOD? - but my google-fu was too weak to find it. 

Anyway, yes! Lego colours for lego bikes.

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Fat_Tony_NJ
0

"When my Walt is back from repair". Uh oh. What did you do? :)

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AndrewMajor
+3 bighonzo Ryan Fat_Tony_NJ

Ovalized the headtube… rigid bikes on the North Shore and all. WZRD.bikes Em is putting a new Paragon one on for me. 

There’s a (cosmetic) dent in the down tube too, but I’m accepting that it’s part of the patinaed charm rather than have the tube replaced out of some abundance of aesthetic sense and tempt the trail gods to dent it again in the same exact spot - it’s a mountain bike AKA living art.

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bighonzo
+2 Andrew Major Velocipedestrian

Are you changing the geo at all? Going with a sweet lime green gradient fading into the purple? Feel free not to answer if you're saving that for an article.

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AndrewMajor
+2 bighonzo Velocipedestrian

No change in geo. I love my V2 as it is… though it’ll be interesting to be back on very long stays. 

Re. paint that’s a great question. Everything that Ape does is rad so I just asked for artist’s choice. It’s not a full repaint just tying Em’s new work in.

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Friday
0

Not super surprised, but very excited to hear that a new Titan is coming soon. Hopefully seat tube length and insertion depth are a bit better too!

Its funny, looking at the Titans front center/rear center ratio and high stack heights, Banshee were way ahead of what seems to be the new frontier of geometry. Im just glad that bike designers are gonna let us stand up on our bikes now.

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AndrewMajor
+2 Karl Fitzpatrick Mike Rock Smith

Where did you hear a new Titan is coming? I’d be excited to see some small revisions but I want to be certain you didn’t get that impression from me. My point re. the future is that many new bikes will resemble the existing Titan, which has been around for a while.

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Timer
+1 Andrew Major

The only thing vaguely hinting at any changes to Banshee’s lineup is their  response that they can’t make the existing rear triangles UDH compatible. 

And since that might become a necessary selling point for boutique frames in the near future, there could be a version 3.3 coming.

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AndrewMajor
+1 Timer

I hadn’t seen that; thanks. I wonder why a new dropout won’t work? I don’t see a clearance issue from the way they move up and down.

Not second guessing Keith, he knows his bikes, just curious if you saw a ‘why’.

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Timer
+1 Andrew Major

[Edit:] Here is the thread on MTBR with all answers. TL:DR: Keith says its not as easy as just changing dropouts and keeping everything else the same. Someone else made a prototype with Banshees help, but unknown what compromises that entails.

https://www.mtbr.com/threads/udh-dropouts.1216402/

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AndrewMajor
+1 Timer

Thanks! I'll follow up with Keith next time I'm bugging him about chain-guide single-speeding or rigid fork geometry. He's a very patient fellow, hahaha.

Friday
+1 Andrew Major

I think your bit about the Titan you reviewed had somehow translated into "there is new of a new titan coming". I think its a bit of my mind manifesting what I want to happen, which is basically the current Titan with a shorter seat tube.

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AndrewMajor
0

Current Titan, just a touch slacker HTA, and, I don’t need it but, I’ll magnanimously add a shorter seat tube and UDH compatibility. Sounds good!

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trumpstinyhands
0

I'm surprised there was a patent on the reverse arch. Did Manitou hold it? Pace had them long before Manitou but that's business I suppose!

https://www.goatsurfer.com/images/rc35_front.jpg

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AndrewMajor
0

Here's the original Answer patent: https://patents.google.com/patent/US6607185B2/en

I don't know how it reconciled with Pace and then later DT (who bought Pace) forks.

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trumpstinyhands
0

Thanks for that. Looks like Pace never patented the reverse arch. Then Manitou got around the prior art aspect by stating:

"In the Pace forks, the arches and the brake means were mounted on the same side of the fork, whereby the arches interfere to some extent with the operation of the brake"

Which is an odd comment! Pace mounted canti brakes on the rear of the fork to (arguably...) minimize the fork flexing as the rim rotation would push the pads inward, rather than outward of mount on the front-side. Plus having the arch on the opposite side to the brake would lessen performance, not enhance it. Oh well, mountain biking wouldn't be the same without armchair engineering (Pace) and dubious patents ha ha.

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AndrewMajor
+1 trumpstinyhands

How did the Horst Link patent ever exist? Narrow-wide rings? Seat tubes in front of the BB shell? None of it makes any sense to me.

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kellyc777
0

Patiently waiting for the full Mattoc Pro review and wondering if you happened to stick it on the Roscoe when you had the bike for your review.

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