SR Suntour Tri Air NSMB AndrewM (2).JPG
TEARDOWN | REVIEW

SR Suntour TriAir Rear Shock

Words Andrew Major
Photos Andrew Major Unless Noted
Date Feb 24, 2021
Reading time

TriAir

I take a step back and take in the Banshee Titan in its freshly mulleted format. Even with the 2.6" tire in the back, the bike is riding fairly low. That's before sagging the 155mm rear-travel 29'er. My first reaction is to flip the drop-outs into their higher setting to boost up the bottom bracket, but my position on the bike riding around the neighbourhood was sweet - both sitting and standing - and I figured I should hit some trails first.

It also occurs to me that if the geometry feels perfect, other than some too-regular smoking of pedals, the SR Suntour TriAir I'm riding also can lend an assist. It feels supple at a wide range of sag settings, so I can add some air pressure. I've been running it wide open up-and-down on the Titan, but I can always reach down and add some platform on the climbs. Finally, I can add a spacer or two to the negative air chamber to help the Banshee ride a bit higher in its travel.

As it turns out, I've done none of these things. I've had a couple of close calls, snagging my bash-guard hard, but the TriAir brings to bear enough support while feeling poppy and playful, that I'm loving the bike set up as it sits. Options abound, the Banshee plays very nicely with the 425 USD rear shock, and I think that the TriAir will work very well with most any suspension design. But, it's worth noting that, for this review, I only rode the SR shock on the Titan.

SR Suntour TriAir NSMB AndrewM (6).JPG

The SR Suntour TriAir is available in huge range of sizes. There are six Trunnion mount options, five Metric options, and two Imperial options.

SR Suntour TriAir NSMB AndrewM.JPG

Yes, the TriAir shares a fair few parts but no, it's not "just" a DVO Topaz. The key difference is the internal floating piston (IFP) in place of the DVO's bladder.

SR Suntour's stated use case for the TriAir is "Downhill, Enduro, Freeride" but with a system weight that's about an empty-beer-can over 400-grams, it's going to be a great choice for any trail bike that clears the piggyback. The smallest Trunnion option is 185x50mm (largest 225x75mm), the smallest Metric option is 210x50mm (largest 250x75mm), and the Imperial shocks come in 7.87x2.25" and 8.5x2.5".

As an aside, I hadn't previously noticed how much longer Metric shocks are compared to their Trunnion cousins. I'm sticking with my not-a-fan status for Trunnion - especially the way most companies implement it - but when we are talking about fitting water bottles and 200mm dropper posts in size small frames and choosing between Trunnion and Metric the ever-growing ranks of Trunnion shock spec'ed bikes does start to make some sense.

For the case of the 155mm Banshee Titan that I'm reviewing - part one is live here - the shock size is, the very common, 205x65mm Trunnion. This also fits my Marin Alpine Trail, which was the intended platform to review this shock, but due to borrowing all the parts off of my A.T., I didn't have the opportunity to test the TriAir on that bike.

DIY

For anyone who is currently doing their own basic rear shock maintenance, an air spring service is as simple as they come. Thats also true of swapping in/out air system reducing spacers for the positive and negative chambers, so the rider that already takes care of basic air sleeve services and tuning is going to have zero trouble digging into the SR Suntour TriAir.

Digging a step further into the shock is still not a project that I'm tackling personally without some expert guidance. I know a number of folks who have tackled full rebuilds on their own shocks with varying results, and if that's you, then the TriAir deserves a solid look for a couple of reasons. For one, the air-backed IFP (Internal Floating Piston) is adjusted with a shock pump rather than a nitrogen charge. There's also the fact that the TriAir requires no proprietary tools to build and as long as you measure things like the IFP depth whilst taking it apart there is no proprietary knowledge needed to put it back together.

I know when I'm in over my head, so I took this TriAir to see my friend James at SuspensionWerx. James is already mid-season slammed thanks to a starring role Off-Broadway (Welch street to be exact) performing 'Bike Love In The Time Of Corona' so I want to throw in an extra "Thank You Uncle Jimmy" for making the time to give you a proper peek inside what you can get for a shock with just over four bills USD.

SR Suntour TriAir NSMB AndrewM (5).JPG

You don't need a vacuum pump to bleed a TriAir shock, if you're going to take your time and do it at home...

SR Suntour TriAir NSMB AndrewM (2).JPG

...but James at SuspensionWerx is already spring-time busy at the shop and this way he gets a guaranteed-good bleed the first time.

SR Suntour TriAir NSMB AndrewM (3).JPG

The damper's all back together and ready for the air spring. That was the quickest teardown article ever‽ Kidding, kidding, next section.

Teardown

Whether you're just swapping in/out spacers in the positive and/or negative air chambers to change how your air spring rides, or it's time for a basic service, the TriAir pulls apart just like other air-can-wearing-an-air-can shocks. Let out the air, pop off an o-ring at the body end of the air can, and slide the air can down to expose the positive and negative air chamber volume spacers.

Looking to lube, or swap, the air can seals? Just grab your trusty rubber strap wrench and the inner air can will unthread from the shock bridge and pull down over the body.

SR Suntour TRiAir NSMB AndrewM (9).JPG

Getting a pair of smooth alloy jaws for my vice is one of my current life goals for both home and wrenching at the shop.

SR Suntour TriAir NSMB AndrewM (10).JPG

I rode the shock with 0-to-3 spacers in the positive air chamber and nothing in the negative chamber for my test period.

With the Titan, Banshee has a suspension design that already likes to ride high in its travel, and after playing around a lot with different suspension settings, I ended up running the TriAir close to the minimum recommended sag. That's particularly true once I had mulleted the bike. For riders who want to run their bike towards the maximum amount of sag, or who have bikes that tend to squat a lot into their travel, the SR shock has the option to decrease the volume in the negative chamber.

For the rider looking for a custom setup - lighter, heavier, tuning around a weird bike - the TriAir offers a level of custom tuning thanks to using both a rebound and compression shim stack. In SR nomenclature, this shares the same 'PCS' designation as their fork dampers. I rode the shock with the stock configuration as delivered, and at 195-ish pounds riding the Banshee, I was very happy with the support from the compression circuit on open and the range of the rebound adjustment.

SR Suntour TriAir NSMB AndrewM C (2).JPG

Compression stack all laid out. For the purpose of this review everything was put together as stock.

SR Suntour TriAir NSMB AndrewM C (3).JPG

And just like that, I have a couple sips of beer and it's ready to go back in the shock.

Some folks who I've talked to who are riding the TriAir - it's a shock that seems to be gaining traction, at least in the circles I travel - have complained of it being too slow or too fast for their specific preference, air pressure (the spring rate they're damping), or bike. That's a relatively easy fix at a custom tuner like Envelo, SWerx, or the nice folks at S4 Suspension, and some really handy folks with an understanding of how shim-stacks work have even tackled it themselves.

I should probably add some sort of disclaimer about not randomly attacking the shim stacks on the pressurized-air bomb you are then going to bolt to your bike and ride down gnarly terrain at high speeds. You know, without having a decent idea what you're doing. But frankly, I see so many examples of loose-loose self-installed lock-on grips working on bikes that I'm probably too jaded to write one that doesn't come across as elitist and insulting.

I'm impressed with the quality of the hard parts throughout the shock. No shock, and especially no air shock, is going to resist some of the frame alignment issues I've seen but at least SR gave the TriAir a fighting chance. I'm increasingly surprised, specifically for Trunnion mount shocks, that suspension manufacturers aren't wanting to see the condition of Trunnion mount bearings as part of determining whether a shock issue is the result of a defect in manufacturing and materials versus a fully seized-and-pitted pair of tiny rusted bearings putting all kinds of forces into a shock that it wasn't designed for.

In that sense, the massive Trunnion-mount bearings and awesome suspension alignment of the Banshee Titan I'm testing this shock in could almost be seen as cheating compared to many Trunnion mount bikes I've ridden and worked on that I could have been testing this shock in. Of course, the shock feels smooth without any sideloading to bind up the body on compression! Of course, it feels smooth and consistent without seized Trunnion bearings changing how the suspension works!

SR Suntour TriAir NSMB AndrewM (13).JPG

The sauce.

SR Suntour TriAir NSMB AndrewM (12).JPG

The IFP.

SR Suntour TriAir NSMB AndrewM (8).JPG

Setting the IFP depth.

SR Suntour TriAir NSMB AndrewM (14).JPG

The damper is back together.

SR Suntour TriAir NSMB AndrewM (4).JPG

Setting the IFP pressure.

SR Suntour TriAir NSMB AndrewM (11).JPG

Installing the air cans.

A final note on IFP pressure is that it is tuneable from 180psi to 240psi. I started at 215psi or so - it's a very small chamber and my shock pump wasn't expensive - and did play around with the range. I think the way the IFP pressure affects the initial feel of the TriAir is going to vary from frame-to-frame but I didn't notice any difference on the Banshee jumping up to 240psi and as I write this I'm second guessing myself on whether I noticed a difference at 190psi. That could be simply that I'm not as in tune with my bike as other riders, it could be that I'm a bit more immune to the placebo affect, and I think maybe a bit of both mixed with the KS-Link platform is the most obvious explanation.

Still, as with swapping around volume spacers, it's very easy to adjust the IFP pressure without even removing the shock from the bike so why not give it a go while bracketing in the rest of the settings?

DTYD

I've previously written about the SR Suntour's Demo To Your Door program, so I'll just quickly note here that it is also available for the TriAir rear shock. The cost of the program is a 99 USD deposit on a shock and that scores you three weeks from the arrival date to get it dialed in and judge for yourself on your local trails.

Most importantly in the context of using online reviews of the product, it lets you see how a TriAir shock works on your specific bike versus the platform that the shock is being tested on. Unfortunately, the program is currently only relevant to NSMB readers located in the US of A but if you'd love to see SR extent it to your country absolutely fire them a nicely worded e-mail.

Suntour Fork Demo Program AndrewM

Getting my personal mechanic to sort out the install of a DTYD Auron. Still love that blue colour and wish it was a stock option. Thanks again to my friend Jac at Essential Cycles for the loan of the bike.

Up, Across, & Down

Technically the TriAir has three compression modes, including a firm-enough option that's going to make any efficiency-crazed rider who isn't settled on having a true hardtail-firm locking plate happy. I can't say that I never touched this lever and I did play with it on my first ride so I could say that the three modes were perceivably different - and they are - but I never once reached for the knob while riding. And that includes long road rides/climbs and always steep single-track climbs.

To some extent, this may come down to the Banshee's steep climbing position, which does not need any kind of pedaling platform to prevent that feeling of sitting on the back tire in the steepest climbs, and of course, the Banshee's suspension system is also coming into play here where some single pivot bikes I've ridden I can imagine I would have used the middle 'Trail' setting frequently.

I ride out of the saddle often on climbs - a habit I carry over from riding my single speed - sometimes just for short efforts rather than dumping gears and other times for sustained periods just because. Either way, I found that there was plenty of support from the air spring and compression circuit for punchy out of the saddle efforts with the shock wide open. Now, when I say punchy I'm referring to getting plenty of support from the shock to feel like I was generating forward momentum for my additional efforts. I'm not making any claims that a 155mm Titan with TriAir and 2.6" tires goes uphill like an XC bike here.

SR Suntour Tri Air NSMB AndrewM (3).JPG

The TriAir shock was controlled and playful at the same time and totally changed my Banshee Titan experience compared to the stock Float X2. I'm riding faster and having more fun. Photo: Mr Lungtastic

SR Suntour Tri Air NSMB AndrewM (4).JPG

I've run it with the Titan and dual 29" hoops - Bontrager Line Elite Carbons - and now with my own mullet wheelset. I was surprised to not have to make any adjustments for the smaller rear wheel. Photo: Mr Lungtastic

Pedaling across rooted, rocky, terrain the shock is well composed and I find the Titan is very efficient if I just keep the power on and ride the bike - seated or standing. What's interesting about this to me is it's a trait that the bike shared with the stock 2021 Float X2 and the TriAir does it at least equally while also bringing much more playful pop to descending. In that sense, the SR Suntour shock is very similar to examples of the DVO Topaz that I have ridden.

Here again, I would leave the shock in the wide-open setting regardless of the trail type but I can certainly picture bikes I've ridden in the past that don't sit nicely in a sag-pocket where I think I would have been happy to have the trail mode at hand.

SR Suntour Tri Air NSMB AndrewM (5).JPG

I've had a chance to ride the SR Suntour TriAir in a wide range of conditions from the most delicious frozen-and-tacky carpet of traction, to spicier patches of snow and ice, to the greasiest conditions the North Shore has on tap.

It's a DH-rated air shock and this is a 155mm Enduro bike that if anything feels like it has more travel now, so descending is probably the performance factor that most folks would expect to be dialed. I rode the TriAir with the Titan set at both chainstay lengths (452mm and 462mm) with a 29" wheel and with the shorter (452mm) dropouts with my mullet setup. Combined with the Banshee, it's at least as planted and composed as any air shock I've ridden and it compliments the KS-Link very well.

Compared to my own coil shock, I enjoy how much more pop even a semi-meh rider like myself can generate ton the Titan thanks to the frame design. It feels more like a monster truck with the coil, but the performance is still excellent, and the exact ride of the shock is much more adjustable using the air shock. As cliche as it sounds as I channel my Fox ALPS-5 marketing handbook, the TriAir can be tuned to bring a better-than-coil experience to the trail by doing an excellent job of absorbing bumps and maintaining traction while at the same time delivering a fun, fun ride popping off everything.

And that's coming from someone who isn't particularly great at popping off anything. It's enough of a confidence boost that I actually don't have a hard time leaving my rigid single speed at home when I'm going for a pedal and know the trail will be extra chunky or extra jumpy.

I always recommend bracketing settings and getting out on some trails you know to dial in everything. I started off running the TriAir too slow - it's definitely a common issue - and also too soft coming off the Float X2, but now I'm happy with air pressure and rebound settings that works for me for most terrain. In terms of adjusting that air pressure, I'm running right around Banshee's minimum target of 28% sag and settled on that number with both my mullet and 29" rear wheel options. That could change again if I switch to running the higher bottom bracket setting because currently the bike is low-low-low-low.

SR Suntour Tri Air NSMB AndrewM (2).JPG

Other than some brief experimenting to see how the platform performed, I've ridden the TriAir exclusively with the shock wide open for this Titan test.

SR Suntour TriAir NSMB AndrewM (7).JPG

With infinite time I would like to do some more extensive back-to-back testing with various air volume-spacer configurations - which is possible on the trail.

Trunnion Value

If you made me pick a best-shock-for-the-money, I would have a hard time not picking Cane Creek's Inline coil shock. I think the performance, weight, price, and longevity are setting a great example for other dampers. The issue is, of course, that the Inline shocks don't come in a Trunnion configuration. For a Trunnion shock talking quality v. performance v. price, I don't think the TriAir can be beaten.

So on that note, SR Suntour! Why don't you make a coil version of this shock?! Pull off the air cans, slap on a steel body with threads, wind on a spring, and voila! Everything I love about the TriAir with a bit more spring and shock weight, less heat generated from less friction, and well, let's be honest, there are reasons so many mountain bikers in the Fromme parking lot are running coil shocks these days regardless of the extra weight. It would probably be necessary to offer a bit firmer open compression setting, but again this is easy thanks to the architecture of their shim stack.

As an aside, if you're replacing a sh*t-kicked air shock with all the anodizing worn off one side of the body and/or shaft I'd recommend going with a coil - that's any coil shock - over an air shock including the TriAir. Your frame is most likely side-loading your shock and you'll significantly improve performance by removing all the friction that is happening at the same time that your shock is eating itself. Your new coil shock may still eat shafts, but these will be much cheaper to replace and cause much less friction.

SR Suntour Tri Air NSMB AndrewM.JPG

A solid value on paper at 425 USD | 536 CAD. Playful and poppy without sacrificing traction or control. I think the SR Suntour TriAir is a great air-shock option.

As with the Durolux EQ fork that I've been running paired with the TriAir, I think it's necessary to look at performance outside of any pricing classification to really judge this unit. I'd put my TriAir shock experience - admittedly only tested on one platform, the Banshee Titan - up against any other air shock I've ridden at any price. Have I ridden every air shock on the market? Heck no. Have I ridden a lot of different examples on a lot of different platforms? That's a yes.

It's a winner on performance. It's a winner on price at 425 USD | 536 CAD. It comes with a great network of aftersale support centers. And yes, some folks will pay any amount extra to get a certain brands' sticker on their new air rear shock but if that isn't you, I don't think you can go wrong with SR Suntour's TriAir.

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Comments

SilentG
+24 SteezeMcQueen Paul Stuart Sandy James Oates Deniz Merdano AJ Barlas GhettoFunkRadio IslandLife MuscogeeMasher Timer Cam McRae Marc Fenigstein Velocipedestrian Mark Luix DMVancouver oudiaou Pete Roggeman WasatchEnduro Dan DadStillRides Andrew Major Nologo luisgutierod ollyh
SilentG  - Feb. 24, 2021, 6:05 a.m.

Shout out to everyone at NSMB.

Your reviews are very thoughtful and never cookie cutter.

I really enjoy reading them because they contain nuance without being obtuse and interesting observations that are relatable without cliched tropes that you find elsewhere on the Internet.

Definitely a bright spot in these weird and difficult times.

Reply

AndrewMajor
+8 Cam McRae Marc Fenigstein Velocipedestrian Luix Paul Stuart WasatchEnduro Dan Nologo
Andrew Major  - Feb. 24, 2021, 6:53 a.m.

Cheers! It really does mean a lot that - whether folks agree with the thoughts/conclusions or not - there’s appreciation for the work that goes in.

Thank you for reading!

Reply

Stu2
+3 Andrew Major WasatchEnduro DadStillRides
Paul Stuart  - Feb. 24, 2021, 7:04 a.m.

Great review. 

Don’t want to steal the thunder from the upcoming review but sounds like you are liking the Banshee?  I’m interested in the Prime but those reviews are hard to come by so I’m living vicariously through titan reviews - even though I know that’s not what this is.

Reply

AndrewMajor
+4 Paul Stuart Marc Fenigstein Luix WasatchEnduro
Andrew Major  - Feb. 24, 2021, 7:49 a.m.

Thanks & no problem. Here’s a very brief collection of thoughts I was rolling around this AM:

I think that the things I love about the Titan would absolutely scale down to the Prime and Phantom.

For example, I never touch the climb switch - open always - but not in the way I don’t touch it on a bike with epic amounts of anti-squat where the bike feels like it has tonnes of chain interference on descents. It feels very open bashing down trails. Actually, if I could choose any bike to try next it would be a Phantom for sure - maybe mulleted with an Angleset.

I’ve really enjoyed playing with the nerd-brand features like going back and forth on the wheelbase. I even resolved my STA concerns prior to mulleting the bike thanks to an SQLab 60X saddle that I didn’t love riding slacker STA bikes (and then really solved it with the ‘tiny’ back wheel).

I have some nitpicks for sure. For example, I still haven’t solved the cable noise that shouldn’t exist on any bike in 2021 (but I’m getting there) and the only dropper post I could run over 150mm is the OneUp due to limited insertion, but that stuff is half the fun of testing bikes.

The only negative experience I’ve had with the bike - like the ‘if this wasn’t covered in my parts I’d light it on fire and walk away’ kind of negative - is the correspondence and sh*t talk from Banshee’s unimaginative asshole fanboys who can’t read a geo chart or conceive of a bike being used in a different way than they use it (as an aside, I’m running a 50mm stem on a large w/ a 12* bar). Most vitriolic flack I’ve received since the Lefty Legion read my notes that the Pike out rode the Lefty SuperMax on the Jekyll I tested AND I regularly ride a rigid bike!!! (where’s the SuperMax now - oh, right || keep in mind I owned a 100mm Lefty 2.0 at the time and loved it).

Any ways, [/rant] and I’d conclude by saying I think anyone who’s about what Banshee is about (big high quality bearings, durability and longterm performance over gram counting, great suspension performance over simplicity, etc) is going to be happy with these bikes - just choose your desired travel.

Hope that helps! And apologies for the stream of consciousness rant on a Wednesday AM.

Reply

MuscogeeMasher
+3 Paul Stuart Andrew Major WasatchEnduro
MuscogeeMasher  - Feb. 24, 2021, 10:31 a.m.

Sorry to hijack your article further, but I've got a Titan arriving tomorrow (btw, saved $250 and got the last 2020, based on your comments on the shock).  

My OCD antennae went up on the cable noise comment.  I'm planning on using the jagwire foam sleeves inside the frame.  Is there a quirk I should aware of?  Would very much like to get that sorted the first time around.

Also, +1 on STA and SQ Lab 60x.  That's exactly what's going on my Titan.  Have their saddles on all my bikes.  

Looking forward to reading your final review and vehemently and categorically disagreeing with anything that's not glowingly positive. ;)

Reply

AndrewMajor
+1 WasatchEnduro
Andrew Major  - Feb. 24, 2021, 2:47 p.m.

I’m going to try a bit of 3M around the cables where they exit the ports as that’s worked well with Pivot bikes.

After that, I have some foam tubing. I don’t love it but I like it better than the rattle. 

I am a single speeder at heart so remember I’m extra sensitive to random noise.

Reply

AndrewMajor
+1 WasatchEnduro
Andrew Major  - Feb. 24, 2021, 2:50 p.m.

I love SQLabs 611 Active but didn’t get along with the 60X until this bike.

One more reason I love the idea of a saddle library.

Reply

AJ_Barlas
+2 Andrew Major WasatchEnduro
AJ Barlas  - Feb. 24, 2021, 4:02 p.m.

What's the difference between the two saddles, Andrew? Interested to hear more of how one helped you with your steep STA troubles.

Reply

AndrewMajor
+1 AJ Barlas
Andrew Major  - Feb. 24, 2021, 7:29 p.m.

The AJ,

They are both Active Shell saddles with the elastomers removed so the wing flex is similar. The 611 is a much racier cut/padding situation that I find compliments a more rearward saddle position (relative to the BB) where more weight is being supported by the core. For bikes with this general fit the 60X felt much too padded/soft/vague. 

With the very upright position relative to the BB I find there is much more loading on my sit bones and also on my hands/forearms (setback bar! Rev grips!).

The increased padding and different support/cut of the 60X (which was designed as an e-bike saddle) provides a lot more support, it has long rails so I could slam it back, and the wing flex is such that the saddle doesn't feel at all in the way despite being a bigger platform than what I usually choose (Deva, Koda, 611).

MuscogeeMasher
+1 Andrew Major
MuscogeeMasher  - Feb. 25, 2021, 4:03 a.m.

Andrew definitely and obviously has a more informed and valuable opinion, but FWIW at 6’2” and 205lbs I ride 611 on hardtail and trail bike and 60x on bigger, wench-and-plummet bike.  Have really struggled with saddles in the past.  Very, very happy with my current setup.

AndrewMajor
+1 MuscogeeMasher
Andrew Major  - Feb. 25, 2021, 5:55 a.m.

MM, that’s quite fascinating that we’re both rocking the same saddle program with the SQ saddles actually!

Same scenario where your hardtail is slacker STA?

How did you e d up with a 60X v. another 611?

MuscogeeMasher
+1 Andrew Major
MuscogeeMasher  - Feb. 25, 2021, 9:35 a.m.

Andrew - definitely interesting, especially since you arrived there via careful and nuanced consideration of numerous saddles.  Makes me feel even better about my decision.  

Hardtail is a Chameleon (73 sta) and trail bike is an OG Hightower (74 sta).  Saddle is kinda close to center on Chameleon and pushed pretty far forward on Hightower.  I'm mostly arms and legs.  Running a 185 Revive on the Hightower with a 490mm seat tube and 20-30mm to spare. 

Run the bars on the lower side for a trail bike.  Ride the Hightower on rolling terrain with lots of mellow grades and may be on it for a few more years because I don't want to give up the geo.  If I had to replace it right now, would almost certainly be a Revel Rascal.

Obviously, the Titan will have pretty "modern" geo.  Anticipate having the saddle in the middle or even pushed back slightly.

I thought the marketing on the 60x was confusing so I called SQ Labs USA.  They talked about it more as a "gravity" saddle than an ebike saddle.  I like it on a wench-and-plummet bike where I run the bars a little higher and spend most of the saddle-up time with the front wheel a decent ways above the rear.  Conversely, it's a lot of saddle when you're in a little more traditional/aggressive position.  611 feels much better to me in those scenarios.

I would discount the ebike label on the 60X.  I just got a new 611 and it had an "ebike" sticker on it.  Forget exactly what the sticker said.  

I'm guessing the prominence of ebikes in the marketing of the saddles is related to their being based in Europe and ebikes being so prevalent over there - sort of like what we've had to suffer through over here with "enduro."  I'd think of the 60x as a gravity or wench-and-plummet saddle that might be especially appealing to larger people.

Finally, a tip that might be worth sharing.  With a slack STA and a bike yoke post, getting the nose a little below horizontal (sqlab recommendation and my preference) meant that the end of the front saddle clamp bolt was close enough to the saddle that when the saddle flexed a lot it barely hit the bolt.  Was starting to nick away at the saddle shell until I caught it.  Just cut 5mm off the end of the bolt and was good to go.  Have no idea if this would have been an issue with other saddles.  Also possible this would not have been an issue with their v2 saddle clamp.  Still, good thing to check for those of us partial to slacker sta frames and $170 msrp saddles.

BTW, thanks so, so much for this site.  It is a complete breath of fresh air and helps me stay in touch with the ethos I want my riding to embody.

AndrewMajor
0
Andrew Major  - Feb. 25, 2021, 3:53 p.m.

Cheers MM,

Yeah, have had to cut a few seat post bolts for the same reason.

Re. E-Bike saddle, I thought of it as a reference to the seating position that’s common for exactly the kind of pedal-and-plummet self-shuttle riding that say folks in SQLab’s home country do. I don’t ride e-bikes myself and your description of what you want from a 60X is similar to what I’m doing.

611 is exactly as you say for me. My bikes tend to have more aggressive power-producing STAs. 

Have to thank Cam & Pete & Niels for the site. I’m just a part-time bike industry hack; they keep it rolling.

babyzhendo
+2 Paul Stuart Andrew Major
babyzhendo  - Feb. 24, 2021, 3:43 p.m.

I had to use the Jagwire foam solution, which was the same that shipped with my old aluminum Sentinel too. To Andrew's point, aluminum bikes still don't see to have cable rattle sorted...my Titan was loud too until I used the foam tubing, which isn't all that fun to install after the initial build.

Reply

Stu2
+1 Andrew Major
Paul Stuart  - Feb. 24, 2021, 11 a.m.

Appreciate all the feedback - even the rant!  Very helpful. Longevity is key as I’ve broken a few chain stays but am concerned about the extra heft.  Thanks again

Reply

AndrewMajor
0
Andrew Major  - Feb. 24, 2021, 2:48 p.m.

Cheers. Plenty more food for thought coming in my review.

Reply

babyzhendo
+3 Andrew Major WasatchEnduro DadStillRides
babyzhendo  - Feb. 24, 2021, 3:42 p.m.

Where'd that tense talk crop up in the Titan review, or have you gotten other hate mail off the comment boards? I shared that I've had a different experience with mine and apparently misinterpreted the seat angle in the geo chart, which you corrected me on, but didn't see any genuine arguing in those comments. As someone who religiously reads and thoroughly appreciates your reviews, I hope I didn't come across as unappreciative or combative.

Calling our "unimaginative asshole fanboys who can't read a geo chart" implies something pretty dramatic, which would be a bummer, especially as it sounds like it has tainted your opinion of the bike (but also *might* be an entertaining read)

Reply

AndrewMajor
+1 WasatchEnduro
Andrew Major  - Feb. 24, 2021, 4:06 p.m.

There were no issues in the NSMB comments.

Please don’t read too much into my rant. I am very happy to have A Lot to talk about in my Titan review (more than any bike I’ve reviewed / ridden) and I’m excited to - hopefully - have some great conversations about the content.

But yeah, most ignorant “fans” of a brand I’ve witnessed. The hardcore Knomers put the hardcore Banshee fans to shame.

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AndrewMajor
+1 Paul Stuart
Andrew Major  - Feb. 24, 2021, 4:11 p.m.

If the above seems a bit wishy-washy and vague I apologize - just trying not to write my review in the comments.

Suffice it to say that if I had to keep riding the Titan long term as a companion to my Walt I would be 100% good with that.

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cbennett
+2 Andrew Major Kevin Bond
cbennett  - Feb. 24, 2021, 9:39 p.m.

Pipe insulation stuffed in the down tube worked for me. Take off the fork, put 3 slits in it to separate the cables and stuff it in.

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BillT
+1 Andrew Major
Bill T  - Feb. 25, 2021, 5:51 a.m.

I have a Titan and didn't get rid of cable rattle until I routed all the downtube cables under the shock and really tightened them down with a ziptie so that they were flat against the bottom of shock cradle.  You've probably done this but figured I'd throw in my 2¢

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AndrewMajor
0
Andrew Major  - Feb. 25, 2021, 9:20 a.m.

Yes. But good note for anyone who hasn’t!

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IslandLife
+4 Andrew Major Paul Stuart Cam McRae SilentG
IslandLife  - Feb. 24, 2021, 8:37 a.m.

Not sure if you've seen Beta MTB yet?  The same guys from Bike Mag put it together after A360 Media pulled the rug.  They just did a good thorough review of the the new Prime as part of their "Beta Tests" segment (which seems to be the new version of the "Bible of Bikes").  Not the same quality, or as in-depth or nuanced as NSMB tests but still much better than a predictable Pinkbike test  - https://www.betamtb.com/bike-tests/beta-tests/the-beta-tests-banshee-prime-v3/

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AndrewMajor
+2 IslandLife Dan
Andrew Major  - Feb. 24, 2021, 9:21 a.m.

Haven’t seen that review but do have to say I’m stoked at Beta in general.

Now if someone could find a way to relaunch Dirt Rag the way I remember it was a decade+ ago.

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IslandLife
+1 Andrew Major
IslandLife  - Feb. 24, 2021, 3:40 p.m.

Yep, great to see Beta. I'm doing my part by watching all their videos and visiting the site daily... might even buy a subscription??

Oh man.. a revamped Dirt Rag would be amazing!  Though I think the culture has changed too much, but us dirt bags at heart can dream!

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AJ_Barlas
+3 Andrew Major IslandLife Dan
AJ Barlas  - Feb. 24, 2021, 4:04 p.m.

Buy a subscription. We should all do it (I plan to). We need to support media outlets we enjoy or more will disappear.

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IslandLife
+2 Andrew Major AJ Barlas
IslandLife  - Feb. 25, 2021, 8:42 a.m.

Yep, you're right.  Was on the fence and just bought one.  Everyone here should!

AndrewMajor
0
Andrew Major  - Feb. 24, 2021, 9:02 p.m.

"Oh man.. a revamped Dirt Rag would be amazing! Though I think the culture has changed too much, but us dirt bags at heart can dream!"

So I've got a couple of things to say on this topic. First off, if you haven't made the effort to track down a copy of the BALANCE magazine that SRAM put out this year* then I'd highly recommend it. It's honestly a package that matches how I remember - in all my nostalgia - bike magazines like Dirt Rag "back in the day." The sort of photos that belong in print, long and longish narratives, make-your-own-trail-snack recipes.

*[I want to note there is ZERO advertising inside and zero "I could only accomplish this epic ride thanks to my AXS drivetrain and CODE brakes" type crap in the narratives. There is a SRAM logo on the front, a SRAM logo on the back, and the odd page says SRAM in small font at the top]

Also, I love busting folks about "the sh*t they can now ride on their $15,000 carbon-everything Megaforbiddengeoslashenduroslayer... X... rigs when I've seen them ride the same features for 20-years - some of those years on bikes that they wouldn't let their worst enemies ride today.

Were they slower up and down? Yeah, whatever. Did they have less fun? I mean, they were probably more terrified at times.

I very seriously think that there's a lot of folks who should save the money they were going to spend on fresh carbon hoops and buy a sweet basic hardtail with modern geo like the Growler 20 I tested. Put some better tires on it (for 2021 Rocky put on a clutch rear derailleur - YAY! and some shitty Kenda tires - BOO!) and shred that dropper-post-less rig for even just a month or two.

I think Growler-rider would come away with enough fresh perspective to cover the difference between the cost of the bike and what they sell it for after such limited use. Hell, I know a fair few folks who could turn around and donate it to a deserving high school mountain bike program and still get massive value-for-dollar on the experience.

I actually wrote a little rant on a related note about dads (always dudes) with their superbikes saying things like "the rock face rolls totally smooth" to their kid/friend on a clapped-out contraption made of recycling that doesn't know it's recycling yet if you're interested: "Sir, you have a f_ing MEGAtower" (N+1+1 Justified)

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tehllama42
+2 Andrew Major Bruce Mackay
Tehllama42  - Feb. 24, 2021, 9:42 p.m.

Well, it's only February, but "Rant of the year" is going to lofty new heights for 2021.

There is something special about hooning a hardtail (with crap tires, deliberately low-brow branding, and visibly inadequate fork) and having people on Bromads stutter in bemusement when they're tired of having me on their rear tire while descending...

mammal
+1 Andrew Major
Mammal  - Feb. 25, 2021, 8:22 a.m.

How the hell do you even go about trying to find a copy of "Balance"? I read your MeatEngines entry on that, and I couldn't even find the faintest reference of it on the web... Is there a secret handshake I should know about??

AndrewMajor
+1 Mammal
Andrew Major  - Feb. 25, 2021, 9:24 a.m.

So, full disclosure, my reason for bringing up BALANCE regularly is it was beautifully done and I think SRAM should have got a copy to every shop or even sold them in their SRAMnation store for a fiver with your t-shirt order or whatever. I figure if enough folks ask they’ll do that - or maybe do it next time. It’s not even available as a .PDF now.

Best bet would be to drop them an email

Sorry I don’t have a box of them to hand out or I’d hook you up! I just have one copy (Thanks Chris!!!)

bruce-mackay
+1 Andrew Major
Bruce Mackay  - March 1, 2021, 1:19 a.m.

Re; "S,y-h-a-f-Mt" (followed that link too) true.  Rode an On*One 456 (26r)  in the "shiz from my garage" build for years when I was teaching my girls to ride.  Kept me honest about what they were experiencing, showed them "it is not about the bike" & made my rides more entertaining.  I've always been of the opinion that a hardtail should be in the quiver, ESPECIALLY for those times when your going to take out a newer / less skilled rider. and now tangent time.....

Bought an RSD Middle Child St frame last year to replace the 456, when sourcing a functioning fork in 1" 1/8 straight steer tube became about the same cost as new frame. Turned the old 456 full commuter (rack & fenders to boot) Have to admit became spoiled after riding a bike that actually fits well for the first time in my life (b/c 6'4") with a less than +530 mm stl, 600mm htt and 900mm standover plus needing a 100mm stem to get the "reach" correct (2017 RMB Slayer XL ;509stl, 657htt & 820soh yay! ) All us tall dudes wanna say "Thanks, new school geometry!" . The Mid Kid is almost an identical fit  to the Slayer (less seat tube and lower soh) but 29r.  It is SOOOO much fun.  Its also WAY more capable (mainly b/c it FITS) than the 456 (Ok measured , 605htt), and doesn't hold me back (much) riding with my girls (16 & 18 now).  Also they can't say "Well, dad you're on a F-ing Slayer!" when I say, "Seriously, these chunky rock steps are totally ridable." 

PS:  The Titan is the #1 for my next ride. (The knolly Chilcotin 151, Prime and the Ripmo AF are in the sights as well.)  Looking forward to the "full" review.

AndrewMajor
0
Andrew Major  - March 1, 2021, 9:27 a.m.

Cheers Bruce!

I'm interested see to see where RSD go with their bikes especially because they have sliders. I'm going to hug the designer from the first company that does Cotic geometry but adds sliders.

HAHAHAHA on the SYHAF'ing Slayer. My daughter and I ride our rigid bikes together so I don't get flack from that direction so much although I haven't done a proper mountain bike ride since the summer where I didn't wear a full face helmet (she checks my gear before I leave because I make her wear one) so life is always changing.

AndrewMajor
+1 JT
Andrew Major  - Feb. 24, 2021, 9:16 p.m.

Also, and I know this is a bit of a running joke - that I'm in on - when I hear folks getting all nostalgic about the state of mountain biking I always go back to You Should Ride A Rigid Fork (which NSMB published in Feb 2017). 

Pick up a hardtail frame with modern geo, get a rigid fork with the right axle to crown, put a big tire up front, raid the spare parts bin, and find yourself spending fully 50% of your rides on a bike that's worth less than your suspension package on your main rig. 

Sure, mine has a dropper post, custom frame, and a slew of high-end parts now - but my rigid experiences have included a bunch of frankenbikes. Riding a frankenbike on real trails will give you joy that I certainly haven't managed to capture in words yet.

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jt
+1 Andrew Major
JT  - Feb. 25, 2021, 9:58 a.m.

Yep, yep, yep. I have a lull period between when the 27.5x3.8's come off and the sus fork comes on where I 29x2.5s on the winter/rigid fork fork before the trails turn to better than 'rideable'. If you wanna ride faster in summer, ride rigid in off seasons.

ShawMac
+3 Paul Stuart MuscogeeMasher Andrew Major
ShawMac  - Feb. 24, 2021, 12:09 p.m.

I have a V3 Prime, and from what I have read so far on Andrew's Titan review translates directly. Especially the perception of having more travel than you actually have. Now, I am not one for big hits, but I have never really had a hard bottom out on the 135mm travel. It feels like way more.

Some additional thoughts:
- I haven't noticed cable noise, but maybe I am such a shit rider that I don't notice the noise, possibly drowned out by my heart rate
- I owned the previous version of the Prime... I actually haven't noticed much difference in suspension feel despite the radically changed design. This is not a bad thing, the previous bike was great. Maybe it was just an attempt to get a water bottle in? 
- The shock cage is BEEFY but makes it a bitch to measure sag. Andrew, have you got any tricks for that? getting a tape measure or calipers in there is imprecise
- They are on the heavy side, but weight weenies don't shop for Banshee

I don't think you will be disappointed with the Prime.

Andrew, if you find yourself up in Squamish, I'd be happy to let you pop on the Prime for a bit for a comparison if it is within your size range (it is a medium, so I think on the smaller side).

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AndrewMajor
0
Andrew Major  - Feb. 24, 2021, 7:22 p.m.

That's the thing about water bottles. Anyone who cares won't buy your bike if it doesn't have a convenient mount and folks who don't care aren't going to skip a bike because it has bosses. I really like the shock basket layout and there are some solid arguments for it including the lower center of gravity and the way the main junctions of the frame are now two forgings. 

I measure sag from bolt-to-bolt. 205mm - 15.5mm = 189.5mm from center-to-center for minimum recommended sag.

Are you running 5mm shifter cable housing (v. 4mm)?

Appreciate the offer but I'm definitely a size large in Banshee's bikes.

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ShawMac
+1 Andrew Major
ShawMac  - Feb. 25, 2021, 10:26 a.m.

Ha ha ha, I am such an idiot. Not sure why I didn't think of measuring bolt centre to bolt centre. 

4mm cable housing. I probably just never noticed a rattle, but now I probably will. 

When I get the opportunity, I am definitely going to try slipping a 27.5 on the back and try the mullet set-up. I went with the short dropouts; the bike is already a bit longer than the old version  so wasn't sure I wanted to go to a full freighter long.

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AndrewMajor
0
Andrew Major  - Feb. 25, 2021, 3:56 p.m.

So, mulleted I’ve been running the short dropouts (which really still aren’t short). Currently have it in the low setting but need to try high.

If someone at Banshee told me these bikes were meant to be mullets originally I’d believe that.

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ShawMac
0
ShawMac  - Feb. 25, 2021, 10:26 a.m.

This comment has been removed.

Taz123
+3 Andrew Major MuscogeeMasher Pete Roggeman
Taz123  - Feb. 24, 2021, 8:12 a.m.

Good note about side-load risk on a shock. 

I don't think that is an aspect that many folks think about when selecting a bike and/or shock. An editorial about the forces a shock sees may be of interest. Which suspension design places extra stresses (not uppy-downy ones) on the shock assembly vs. others? Why is coil better than air for side-loading? Do we assume the shock spec'd with the bike is the best design for longevity and not just riding performance? What are some signs to watch out for? I'm sure there are other questions that newbs all the way to expert riders would appreciate.

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AndrewMajor
+1 SuspensionLab_JonoChurch
Andrew Major  - Feb. 24, 2021, 9:20 a.m.

I wouldn’t call it “side load risk.” I mean, the shocks not under any risk of abnormal wear if the frame is straight, Trunnion bearings are good, and there’s no weird bending forces in the suspension curve.

I’ve just come across (too?) many shocks with weird one-side wear on the body and or shaft. 

For the record, I know a coil shock shaft will still wear from side/weird loading it’s just it’s much, much cheaper than replacing body/can on an air shock and a lot less friction while it’s happening.

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SuspensionLab_JonoChurch
+2 Andrew Major Luix
SuspensionLab_JonoChurch  - Feb. 24, 2021, 11:22 p.m.

Thank you for pointing this out! You are right things like the trunnion bearings should be checked before fitting a shock. Unfortunately the problem isn't just with Trunnion bikes as specialized has been terrible on shocks for a number of years now. It is a common problem that shock makers are aware of but frame manufacturers don't seem to be taking responsibility for which is super frustrating for the people that own these bikes

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mrbrett
+1 Andrew Major
mrbrett  - Feb. 24, 2021, 10:17 a.m.

Was curious about this as well. Is the smaller diameter of a coil air shaft vs. an air shock shaft a consideration too?

I wish there was a gauge that could be bolted in place of a shock to check for alignment/binding as the shock cycles. I guess the condition of the anodizing is sort of like a gauge ...

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AndrewMajor
+1 Luix
Andrew Major  - Feb. 24, 2021, 2:53 p.m.

Many coil shocks have steel shafts which takes way more of a beating too.

Re. A gauge. I don’t know, I think bikes move a lot under riding loads v. in the shop. Bottom outs etc. I also see lots of bikes with sloppy back ends, seized bearings (especially tiny cheap Trunnion guys), etc, etc,

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GhettoFunkRadio
+6 Andrew Major Cam McRae MuscogeeMasher Pete Roggeman JT Luix
GhettoFunkRadio  - Feb. 24, 2021, 8:36 a.m.

Once again Andrew, your teardown reviews are the gold standard in MTB media! Thank you (and James), and keep up the fantastic work.

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AndrewMajor
+2 GhettoFunkRadio Luix
Andrew Major  - Feb. 24, 2021, 9:17 a.m.

Thank you! 

I really appreciate James making the time - when he’s already swamped - because this obviously wouldn’t have happened without him.

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tehllama42
+2 Andrew Major Luix
Tehllama42  - Feb. 24, 2021, 9:13 a.m.

I couldn't help but spend the entire review wondering 'when' the coil version is coming for this, especially given the amount of shared architecture with the Jade shock.

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AndrewMajor
+1 DanL
Andrew Major  - Feb. 24, 2021, 9:16 a.m.

Right?! Would love to try the coil version of this shock. Especially if they could get it in at the same price with a standard steel spring included.

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DanL
+1 Timer
DanL  - Feb. 24, 2021, 9:26 a.m.

You mention DVO in this article and shared tech - how do these compare to the DVO ? Finding any trunnion coil that fits my bike is getting silly right now and the Jade is in a good place, pricewise and availability wise.

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AndrewMajor
+1 Luix
Andrew Major  - Feb. 24, 2021, 3:40 p.m.

I’m not anti-bladder at all - Love the CaneCreek IL Coil / sadly the IL architecture doesn’t work for Trunnion - but in this case, comparing air shocks (admittedly sample sizes skewed) I’d take the IFP of the TriAir over the DVO’s bladder in their Topaz.

I can’t speak to the Jade specifically. It’s a product I was interested in testing (along with the Onyx DC!) but I have zero personal experience with it.

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tehllama42
0
Tehllama42  - Feb. 24, 2021, 9:44 p.m.

I feel like the adjustability in running the bladder system is nice, but not really as needed on a coil shock that is going to be naturally that much more supple (while dialing in an air shock and limiting stick-tion influence is worth the inevitability of having to jam more air into the bladder fortnightly.

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mammal
+1 Andrew Major
Mammal  - Feb. 25, 2021, 8:18 a.m.

What is it about IFP in the TriAir that you prefer, over the bladder system in the Topaz? 

After rebuilding my Topaz last week, I can assure you the bladder is a simple, reliable system to work on, and I'd think it would reduce friction in the system by a certain amount over IFP (noticeable or not).

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AndrewMajor
+1 Mammal
Andrew Major  - Feb. 25, 2021, 4:01 p.m.

In theory the bladder reduces friction. In practice between these two shocks you’d have to be a more tuned in rider than me to notice.

When I say this, I’m not talking here about what’s happening in the $1000+ shock market tech wise, but for a best-on-a-budget suspension product contender  I like the robustness and reliability of an IFP. Especially since these shocks are often the ones that see their service interval stretched.

slimshady76
+1 Andrew Major
Luix  - Feb. 24, 2021, 6:28 p.m.

If you look at SR Suntour's instagram you'll see a lot of ambassador/sponsored riders' bikes already sporting the coil version of this shock.

It was supposed to be available to the masses on 2020, but I guess the Coronaggeddon delayed its debut as it happened to many other products.

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AndrewMajor
+1 Luix
Andrew Major  - Feb. 24, 2021, 7:11 p.m.

Cool! I had no idea (you are obviously more observant than me). Definitely, a shock that would be on my shortlist.

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slimshady76
+1 Andrew Major
Luix  - Feb. 25, 2021, 7:05 a.m.

Other than their social media, Suntour hasn't published anything about the coil shock anywhere. I'm also eager to try one!

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Carmel
+1 Andrew Major
Carmel  - Feb. 25, 2021, 6:57 a.m.

I just received my Titan frame (thanks Andrew, anyone need a Smash in Germany?) and have Jade sitting here waiting for it. Curious to see how it works out, got it for slightly more than 200€ basically brand new.
A TriAir is definitely on the short-list for an air shock if I can get one. Two shocks for the price of one (or less).

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babyzhendo
+1 Andrew Major
babyzhendo  - Feb. 24, 2021, 3:29 p.m.

Awesome, detailed review as always. I ran a DVO Topaz for a bit on a Knolly, and with that shock I was a little skeptical of whether I'd really make use of the all tunability with the air spring. It ended up being that adding bands to the negative chamber helped me really dial in that bike in a way that typical compression adjustments wouldn't have been able to do. Really nice feature IMO!

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Skeen
+2 Luix Andrew Major
Skeen  - Feb. 24, 2021, 6:13 p.m.

Excellent review as usual! I always appreciate your perspective on SR Suntour suspension products. I don’t have any of my own yet but they are definitely on my radar. Also, would you mind sharing the manufacturer for the bash ring snuck into a few of your shots? If you already covered that one I missed it. I am always on the hunt and like the look of the texture around the circumference. Is that wolf tooth camo or something else? Thanks as always.

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AndrewMajor
+1 Skeen
Andrew Major  - Feb. 24, 2021, 7:14 p.m.

Cheers!

It's just a decade-old Straitline Components bash ring that was in my drawer. I've hit it HARD a few times running the low-BB setup with the mullet rear wheel and it also hides some drivetrain shenanigans.

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velocipedestrian
+1 Andrew Major
Velocipedestrian  - Feb. 25, 2021, 1:14 p.m.

There has to be a follow up to a tease like that. Will said shenanigans appear in the Titan review? On Meat Engines?

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AndrewMajor
0
Andrew Major  - Feb. 25, 2021, 4:03 p.m.

At this point the unabridged Titan review is going to look like Morgan Taylor wrote it... but yes, current plan is to touch on it more there.

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kyle-doherty
+1 Andrew Major
Kyle Doherty  - Feb. 24, 2021, 6:42 p.m.

I wonder if the topaz bladder could be a drop in replacement for the IFP on this thing. Bargain topaz. Conversely, the DVO air seals are overpriced, and if these were cheaper, it’d be a nice topaz hack

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AndrewMajor
+1 Kyle Doherty
Andrew Major  - Feb. 24, 2021, 7:16 p.m.

Interestingly, I've been asked about going the other way (putting the SR IFP into the Topaz). Having ridden both shocks, I can't think of any reason not to stick with the IFP.

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kyle-doherty
+2 Andrew Major Luix
Kyle Doherty  - Feb. 25, 2021, 6:46 a.m.

The bladder was a selling point for me. One less dynamic seal. Also, not having to dig out a number for ifp depth is nice. I bet it can handle the transition from compression to rebound more quickly too given. Is fragile during rebuild however

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slimshady76
+1 Andrew Major
Luix  - Feb. 24, 2021, 6:47 p.m.

I have been using this shock on my Orbea Rallón R4 since July 2020. Since there were very little pieces about it on the net at that time, at first I went by Vital's review to find my base settings, but the shock always felt overdamped in the rebound front. I felt like I was always waiting for it to spring back when I preloaded the bike to bunny hop or take off jumps. A side note: I'm not positive to riding a shock with the slow speed compression lever in any other position than fully open, except maybe for flow trails.

I even discussed this with Suntour's official US service reps, and they told me it was a weird, very uncommon thing and offered to revalve the shock for me if I was willing to send it over to them. This was a big no-no for me, given I'm in Argentina, and the shipping charges and customs fees would had ended up being more than what I paid for the shock.

Then, after some more riding, it started to loose itself until I ended up moving the rebound knob a couple clicks back from fully open. Adding a couple bands in the positive chamber also added to the mid stroke support, and now I feel like I have something to push against when preloading the rear suspension, but without losing the exceptional initial stroke sensitivity.

I've also found that as the Vital review recommends, the resi pressure could be used as a half-step spacer in the positive chamber: It does not affect the end stroke progression as much as it does with the mid-stroke support.

Time for another side note: this shock isn't just a close relative to the DVO Jade, but also a lost sibling to the Rock Shox Monarch DebonAir. In fact, it shares more with the SRAM unit than it does with the DVO one (if not for the DVO green inner bits).

All in all, I like the TriAir a lot. It's a pretty well composed package with a very good price. It might take some time until it begins to shine the way it should, but as Andrew points out, the simplicity it demands when servicing time comes makes it an option worth considering. It's also perpetually on sale on some European sites, so you can have a very good shock at an unbeatable price.

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kyle-doherty
0
Kyle Doherty  - Feb. 25, 2021, 10:09 a.m.

This comment has been removed.

kyle-doherty
+1 Luix
Kyle Doherty  - Feb. 25, 2021, 10:09 a.m.

It’s interesting to consider how they are the manufacturer forth both rockshox and dvo

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lkubica
+1 Luix
lkubica  - Feb. 25, 2021, 12:26 a.m.

Hi, I wonder how hard is to reduce travel in this shock? I could find only 230x65 metric, but need 230x60. Btw, they are almost impossible to buy in Europe right now, which is a pity since they look like a great value.

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slimshady76
+3 Greg Bly Andrew Major JB450
Luix  - Feb. 25, 2021, 6:32 a.m.

Per this thread on MTBR the only difference between the 210x50 and 210x55 shocks is just a spacer, clipped on the main shaft, right behind the end stroke metalic washer:

In the thread the procedure to lengthen the stroke is debated, so I guess the reverse operation should be equally simple. You could machine/make a 5mm spacer, clip it behind the end stroke washer, and call the day off.

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AndrewMajor
+1 Luix
Andrew Major  - Feb. 25, 2021, 4:04 p.m.

Yeah, easy shock to stroke limit.

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JB450
0
JB450  - Feb. 26, 2021, 2:02 a.m.

That's my bike 😁 Envelo sell the travel spacers too.

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WhatsUpCountry
+2 Andrew Major Luix
WhatsUpCountry  - Feb. 25, 2021, 12:35 p.m.

DVO sells the travel spacers, though check to make sure the 230x65 doesn't have one installed already - having one already in there for 65mm stroke could cause problems.

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dan
+1 Andrew Major
Dan  - Feb. 25, 2021, 3:26 p.m.

Similarly, I'd need a 230x57.5.

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JB450
+1 Luix
JB450  - Feb. 26, 2021, 2:01 a.m.

Bike components have them 👍

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Shoreloamer
+2 Luix Andrew Major
Greg Bly  - Feb. 25, 2021, 8:46 a.m.

You one of the few who talks about attacking climbs un seated. My style too. It allows me to make weight shifts easier and quick power burst. Not needed on Fromme road climb but a 30 kg Banshee scream with a granny gear will have no problem climbing fire roads. 

On teck climbs out of saddle is needed. You didn't need the climb switch or to make many adjustments? I think that expresses your good climbing skills. And a well thought out bike. 

I had a rare Durolux rear air shock. I put it on a Spesh Enduro. Felt very close to a coil but I never felt a harsh bottom out. An old trick add grease to the negative or positive chamber to reduce air volume. 

Always an honest and refreshing review Andrew.

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AndrewMajor
+1 Greg Bly
Andrew Major  - Feb. 25, 2021, 2:59 p.m.

Cheers Greg!

The Titan is cool in that it pedals out of the saddle like similarly well endowed bikes with a lot of anti-squat but doesn’t have that “is this really a 160mm bike?” feeling on the way down.

It’s a bit of a tank - my build contributes w/ CushCore inserts etc - and on long climbs I use my Grannie (manual shift 26t N/W) but even then I’ll often stand and hit a tech section or switchback corner rather than grab more gears. Works great for me and this bike suits my “style.”

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jt
+2 Andrew Major Luix
JT  - Feb. 25, 2021, 10:11 a.m.

A pal of mine has been bemoaning the Fox on his Fuel 2020 EX 9.8 since he got the bike, and I've been leaning on him to get on one of these for the tunability alone, much less being able to service it easily. Really, the bang:buck ratio is stupid high for this unit. Regarding side load on shocks from misalignment, I've had it on several bikes, most notably my SB66 (though MY 05 Bullit wasn't near straight n true either). The SB was so bad I measured the offset diff and ordered the spacers to correct it. The bike took on a bit more sensitivity because of it. Crapper to have to do it, but better than not doing so. The force vector alignment and range of options at the drops make Banshee high on my 'potential new bike when I decide 26 is dead', and the Suntour reviews keep pointing towards their boingers being on the bike.

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ShawMac
+1 Andrew Major
ShawMac  - Feb. 25, 2021, 10:28 a.m.

Really sad that they cut Canada out of the try before you buy program. I wonder if it was a problem with customs and taxation.

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AndrewMajor
+1 Luix
Andrew Major  - Feb. 25, 2021, 2:52 p.m.

That line on the map is regularly a PIA. Even for repair and return.

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mammal
+1 Luix
Mammal  - March 3, 2021, 11:13 a.m.

And just like that, they revise the TriAir... to match the configuration of the Topaz 2. 

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/sr-suntour-reveals-new-triair2-shock-taipei-cycle-online-2021.html

That configuration of the res looks neat, but I wonder what led them to use that instead of the traditional piggy-back, and along the same lines, what made DVO go from the Topaz 2 configuration to the traditional arrangement with the Topaz 3. Looking at the envelope of the shock body, I wouldn't think the new configuration would gain much in the way of bike compatibility for the TriAir, over the previous version.

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slimshady76
0
Luix  - March 3, 2021, 8:36 p.m.

The Topaz 2 emerged as a solution to frame contact with some Giant models. Also, as pointed out in many reviews, the compression lever in the TriAir is pretty big and could potentially mess up with a water bottle in some frames. Another good reason could be to minimize the IFP dynamic friction: since the rotated resi on the TriAir/Topaz 2 seems to be wider, it would demand less movement of the IFP for an equal volume of displaced oil.

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rnayel
0
RNAYEL  - March 3, 2021, 2:11 p.m.

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Bondseye
0
Kevin Bond  - March 26, 2021, 7:41 p.m.

Mid 2022

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Bondseye
0
Kevin Bond  - March 26, 2021, 7:24 a.m.

Thanks (in part) to your review I installed a tri air on my Titan and noticed an immediate improvement over the stock x2. Thanks!

I also noticed Banshee has added the Tri Air 2 to their list of incompatible shocks for the Titan. If you want a Suntour shock for your Titan get it before 2022 because the Tri Air 2 won’t fit and the version you reviewed will be gone.

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