Specialized 6Fattie FSR Comp Carbon – Dual Tester Review

Photos Kaz Yamamura
Date Jan 17, 2016

Sometimes a bike comes along that merits more than one opinion. Not because one isn’t enough, but because two might offer varying perspectives, especially with something new and relatively untested like Plus-sized bikes. So, we present you a dual review for the Specialized 6Fattie FSR Comp Carbon.


Dave Tolnai’s Review

Cam tells me everybody is sick of hearing about the concept of plus bikes. They want the real dirt. The tires on the ground. The boring facts of a bike review. Which is fine. But this bike has been sitting around my house for a while, and I haven’t ridden it as much as I’d like, so talking about those “facts” is going to be a little bit tricky.

Plus Bikes – Proof of Concept

Sorry. Can’t resist. When I rode the Scott Plus Bikes a few months ago, I really loved them. But there was a big question mark in the back of my mind as to how they would work on my local trails. Pretty damn well, is apparently the answer to that.

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When he’s not wading through your emails to Uncle Dave, he’s riding bikes.

Wheels and Tires

The 3.0’s on this bike are some wide-assed tires, and they come mounted up on some fairly skinny rims. There doesn’t seem to be a consensus yet as to exactly how this plus thing is going to work. If it were my bike, I’d lean more towards the narrower tire/wider rim set-up that Scott is running on their bikes. At 16-17 psi things felt comfortable. You could probably go lower, but after my first ride at a too low pressure, I didn’t mess around too much. Oh, and as Cam pointed out to me, you’re going to need some kind of digital pressure gauge to accurately set your pressures. Most floor pump gauges won’t tell you anything. Pump up to 20 psi with your floor pump and then use a digital gauge to bleed off to the right pressure. I never had a burp and I never flatted.

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Some rare North Shore speed.

Climbing and Rolling

This is a mid-level bike with the weight and the component spec to prove it. It’s not a rocket ship up non-technical climbs, but that doesn’t seem to be a fault of the larger than normal tires. It seems no more or less sluggish than a typical bike in this weight/price range. The tires don’t seem to add much in the way of rolling resistance.

Technical climbs are where things start to come alive. All those little technical bits that leave you dabbing your foot and cursing in shame become just a little bit easier. There’s gobs of traction and it is quite noticeable.

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“I’m sure somebody out there is scoffing at me right now for using technology to make my rides easier.”

This is a fairly local reference, but the Old Buck/Dale’s/Forever After/Bridle Path is a favourite loop of mine. I view the rolling awfulness of Bridle Path as a necessary evil required to complete this ride. This bike greatly improves the experience. The rolling technical bits are immediately a whole lot easier and all the rocks and roots are much less of an issue. I’m sure somebody out there is scoffing at me right now for using technology to make my rides easier. I’m sure that guy rides exclusively on a rigid bike with cantilevers though, right?

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“It’s not super precise, but goes more-or-less where you want it to, and if you get a bit off line it’s happy to ride right over things.”

 

Descending

This bike is fun and immediately feels comfortable. It’s not super precise, but goes more-or-less where you want it to, and if you get a bit off line it’s happy to ride right over things. It smooths out chatter and bumps and crap and it rides like it has more travel than it does. For bombing through roots and technical terrain, this bike is amazing.

The tire set-up did feel a bit squirrelly at times, much more so than I noticed on the Scott. I didn’t put in a whole lot of time on faster trails, but when the speeds went up or the pressure went down was when it was most noticeable. I’ll mention it again – I’d really love to see a slightly smaller tire and a wider rim.

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“My first ride I was clanging the rear end off bottom fairly consistently and not anywhere near full travel on the front. And I’d just shrug my shoulders and keep rolling because it didn’t seem to matter.”

 

Suspension

The biggest change when you move to a Plus bike is that it feels like you have more travel than you do. The tires add a level of plushness. To be honest, I’m having a hard time isolating what the suspension is doing. My first ride I was clanging the rear end off bottom fairly consistently and not anywhere near full travel on the front. And I’d just shrug my shoulders and keep rolling because it didn’t seem to matter.

With a bit of air pressure tuning the fork became pleasant enough. It felt supple (although, maybe that’s all tire?) without bottoming. That makes me wonder if this will eventually result in slightly different tunes on these bikes. Maybe you’ll be able to get away with a slightly stiffer fork as the tires can handle some of the smaller stuff?

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Dave is not a fan of the Auto Sag feature.

 

The rear end is serviceable. The shock lets the rear wheel move up and down and there’s not much more to say about it than that.

The auto-sag thing is a waste of time. Please just give me a nice recommended air pressure chart and let’s not worry about pumping the shock up to 300 psi before bleeding the pressure off via some less-than-clear instructions.

Other Components

The GX drivetrain works well. I prefer the shift lever feel to that of the new XT. I’d be happy to run it, and once you’re riding it feels just as good as the higher dollar groups. Shifting isn’t quite as smooth, especially rolling up the cogset under load, which seems to result in a loud cracking sound. At least you know the shift is made.

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“The rear end is serviceable. The shock lets the rear wheel move up and down and there’s not much more to say about it than that.”

The dropper post works well, but it can be a bit frustrating to find some of the middle positions (Specialized claims there are 12 of them, which seemed like more than I was able to experience) if you’re used to something with infinite adjust. It never slipped or anything though, and the lever is easy to actuate.

The SWAT compartment is novel, but it seems complicated to close it back up. I’m still nervous to try it without Cam there to step in once I give up trying to figure it out.

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Dave is not a fan of the SWAT comparment – but many of us are.

 

Conclusion

There seem to be countless comments suggesting that “these bikes are for noobs” and “I’ll pay attention once somebody wins an Enduro World Series event”. Which is pretty stupid, when you think about it. If we shopped for cars or golf clubs or skis with that attitude, we’d never be happy. Like a fat ski, or a fancy golf ball, or a wide tennis racket, it feels like these tires just give you a bit larger of a sweet spot. Maybe they’ll never win races. Most of us shouldn’t care about that.

Most of my rides are less than 2 hours long, and take place on slower, technical terrain. I grunt up, ride down, and often have some sort of rolling technical meander out. If I were spending money on a bike right now, it would be a Plus bike. No question. Worst case, if this thing explodes in our faces, we can just swap some 29er wheels in and pretend that we were never foolish enough to  succumb to the industry conspiracy. For this early batch of plus bikes, this one is as good a bet as any. It offers some value (although the Canadian dollar might argue with that), it’s easy to adapt to and it’s pile of fun. They should re-name it though. 6Fattie doesn’t make any sense to me.


Seb Kemp’s Review

When I heard that Cam had a plus-sized bike in his possession, I immediately started asking him if I could try it out. I was very, very curious about the 27.5-plus concept. I wanted to know whether 27.5-plus tires were something I should be paying careful attention to. I mean, I love fat rubber. I usually run the fattest tires I can find and have always felt that, for me and my riding, it’s better to have the traction and durability that big rubber gives rather than count grams and go for quicker rotating tires. I’ve tried fat tire bikes and they go so far out to the extreme end of the spectrum that unless you are using them to go where ‘normal’ mountain bikes can’t go (snow or sand or the like) then the drawbacks really outweigh the benefits. So, what I wanted to know was, are 27.5-plus bikes Goldilocks porridge, good for the type of riding I like and how I like riding?

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The astute among you will notice this is not Seb Kemp. Schedule challenges required Cam McRae to step in as Seb’s less talented under study.

Well, after a week of riding the Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Comp Carbon 6Fattie on (relatively) different types of trails on Vancouver’s North Shore (technical and demanding), Mount Tzouhalem (berms and jumps) and Whistler (a little from column A and a little from column B) I am pretty confident that, at the moment, 27.5-plus bikes are not for me.

Let me explain why.

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This bike devours slabs of rock.

This bike was good at scaling rock faces. No, scrap that, it’s incredible at climbing up slabs of rock. Once I discovered this bizarre quality then I went in search of any steep chunks of granite (or whatever type of stone I could find). I rode trails I usually shy away from (and by shy away I mean ignore but they are as rewarding as reciting the 52 times table) just so I could see if I could ride them backwards. Basically, it allowed me to ride up things I didn’t need to. However, one at the top of the rock slabs I’d have to ride back down and it’s there that I found the other side of the coin. The traction that enabled it to get up didn’t translate to going down. The front tire would slide and then would horribly distort under force. The tread just didn’t give much confidence and the sidewalls just had very little support. While braking the tire would feel like it was made of baby poop and satin sheets. Then when it hit something, like the compression at the bottom of the rock face or a turn, it would feel like it was folding like the French rugby team’s defense.

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3.0 tires may not look as strange as fab bike tires, but you’ll notice their girth once they are under you.

And it wasn’t just on the very steep terrain where the tires felt, errrr…how do I put this…scary. If you like going fast down hills and pushing into turns, be they berms or drifty flat turns, then it’s likely that 27.5-plus wheels are not for you. When you push into the wheels and the earth pushes back, the squishy, fat rubber donuts in the middle take all that pressure and release it through the sidewalls. What I found is halfway through a turn it would feel like I was riding on a water bed covered in KY Jelly. The squirming was disconcerting but also the lack of grip that the tire tread provided felt akin to riding on worn out OE-spec Kenda Nevegals. In the rain.

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It almost looks like a mountain bike.

To mitigate the blancmange-like qualities of the tire I played with tire pressure a lot. I started with 15psi, almost immediately went up to 22psi to try and get a bit of stability, then went down to 12psi when the previous setting made little to no difference, but settled back on 15psi, mainly because nothing seemed to help solve the problem I was having, and everyone I spoke to said that 15psi was the sweet spot. I’m not sure what kind of sweet spot ‘they’ are talking about, and I wish their lovers all the best.

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“There’s no pop on this particular iteration of the Stumpy and even all the will in the world doesn’t make lofting this bike easy.”

The mass in the wheels is extremely noticeable. The usually very sporty Stumpjumper felt sluggish and cumbersome. I’ve ridden many 29ers that turn a lot easier. There’s no pop on this particular iteration of the Stumpy and even all the will in the world doesn’t make lofting this bike easy. It felt tiring to try change direction or move across lines quickly. I often found myself on the wrong line, unable to do anything about it but plough on regardless – which is one thing this bike did allow for. It would put you in harm’s way far too often for my constitution, but it would provide a great hulking, lumbering getaway vehicle once you were up Shit Creek. The Stumpjumper is one of the most brilliantly playful bikes available on the market today, but not in this guise. It’s like making a magnificent golden eagle wear gum boots and expecting it to fly.

It is good at romping along on flattish terrain, gobbling up the small bumps, but then isn’t that exactly what half decent suspension and standing up on your pedals also provides?

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Cam appreciated the way the big balloons smoothed his return to earth. Seb was not similarly enthusiastic.

Overall, and I’m sorry to Specialized for saying this, but the 6Fattie is like putting monster truck tires on a Porsche; it’s no longer a great sports car and all it does is make navigating all the speed bumps on the way to the grocery store, or clattering off curbs when you have to parallel park, a little better. The 6Fattie is pretty great at some things but terrible at many others, so where you ride or how you ride will influence your own evaluation of this bike. In my opinion, the things that it’s good at account for a very small portion of the trails I enjoy riding and the parts it flails on are the ones I seek the most.

One concession I will make for the plus-tire fan boys out there is that my experience was based on just the tires and wheels that came on the Specialized 6Fattie. Maybe there’s better, grippier, stouter tires out there. But what I experienced wasn’t just something that’s a little different than what I know and enjoy, it was a very radical change in performance, and it wasn’t good. Plus-sized bikes aren’t for me. Not yet, and maybe never.


It’s hard to believe Seb and Dave were riding the same bike. Do you think you are more like Seb or more like Uncle Dave?

Comments

boomforeal
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boomforeal  - April 18, 2016, 7:31 a.m.

the first time i read this article i skimmed through it pretty quickly. it struck me as odd that the two reviewers seemed to have had such different experiences and offered such different impressions of the same bike. but last weekend i demo'd this bike and got a chance to push it on a pretty wide variety of fun terrain - and i agree with absolutely everything both dave and seb had to say

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dan
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Dan  - Jan. 23, 2016, 3 p.m.

Can anyone explain what the "6" in "6Fattie" refers to? (Serious) Is it like "Six-Fitty" to refer to 650b? But fat? (This is my brainstorm as I am typing this.)

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joseph-smith
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Joseph Smith  - Jan. 20, 2016, 9:42 a.m.

I recently did the super d out at bootleg canyon NV. Converted a '14 camber to a 27.5+ and added a boosted 130mm fox 34. Ended up running the shwalbe nobbie nicks 2.8 evo trailstar snakeskin(870g each) at 17/19 on 34mm id carbon wheels. I'm 165, pedal hard, corner ok, and choose good lines.
It was a great set for the race! At my weight and with the unforgiving nature of the area, the added pressure was the key to avoid flats and tire squirm under hard cornering and pedaling. The larger tires gave incredible grip on the loose corners I've had to slow down on on previous standard tire set ups. Slightly slower pedaling, much faster cornering, overall had a very fast time!

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dan
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Dan  - Jan. 23, 2016, 2:56 p.m.

Bootleg with all its jagged rocky debris seems like a great place for the extra volume.

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jonas-dodd
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Jonas Dodd  - Jan. 19, 2016, 9:49 p.m.

"I usually run the fattest tires I can find and have always felt that,
for me and my riding, it’s better to have the traction and durability
that big rubber gives rather than count grams and go for quicker
rotating tires."

I'm with you 100% on that one, Seb. Thank you for the honest review filled with keen insight and great humor. Always a treat to read your work.

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kain0m
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kain0m  - Jan. 18, 2016, 12:48 p.m.

"Overall, and I’m sorry to Specialized for saying this, but the 6Fattie is like putting monster truck tires on a Porsche; it’s no longer a great sports car and all it does is make navigating all the speed bumps on the way to the grocery store, or clattering off curbs when you have to parallel park, a little better."
For what it's worth, the "monster truck" is Porsche's best selling model… Even though it is an abomination of a car.

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dan
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Dan  - Jan. 23, 2016, 2:55 p.m.

And yet, no one's racing the Cayenne except to Starbucks.

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sean-estes
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Sean Estes  - Jan. 26, 2016, 11:28 a.m.

Not true, the Cayenne GTS has a wicked fast lap time at Nurburgring - faster than MANY famous sports cars on the most iconic race track in the world ( ). 8:19 lap time, ranked

Cayenne is far from an abomination of a car, in fact the chassis was designed very specifically to set it apart from most SUVs in terms of performance on and off-road. Do your homework before you trash talk ( ). Just because that average Cayenne driver is an abomination of a driver doesn't mean the vehicle itself is not capable or well designed. Porsche can't control who buys their cars, nor should they.

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cam@nsmb.com
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Cam McRae  - Jan. 26, 2016, 1:34 p.m.

You and your facts. That's impressive. It's also the second heaviest car in the top 200. The Ranger Rover SVR was 5 secs faster and it's 600 lbs heavier. But it also has 130 more Bhp.

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0
Tom  - Jan. 18, 2016, 12:38 p.m.

I have never ridden a 650 puls bike. But used to own a 29 plus bike. It was a good alternative bike and as said plus bikes makes you ride different things. I always used to enjoy riding it (it's a bike) but it was an excuse not to ride a "normal" bikes which I enjoy riding more.
The thing that bugs me about all this 650 plus stuff is that it's the next best thing and you would be crazy not to think about buying one. They really should just be seen as an alternative bike to make old trails feel new.
Then you have got all the marketing hype. I remember how normal 650b wheels were sold to us. It's went something along the lines of: "Imaging the roll over capabilities and grip of a 26″ wheel fitted with a big volume tyre. If you have a bigger rim you can achieve that diameter of a big 26″ tyre but with a lighter over all weight as the tyre won't be as heavy."
So you could take that same thinking to 650b wheels with big tyres. You could get the advantage to a bigger diameter to improve roll over capabilities and grip but lighter weight tyres! Oh wait we have already got that with 29er's!!
Then most thing you read about them is how big improvements need to be made to the tyres to make the bike usable as an aggressive trail bike.
These tyres must have paper like side walls to get the weight down so low. So to get these tyres to have some level of support you have got to increase the weight of them. But once you have done that I can bet these bikes will start to feel really sluggish.
The MTB industry have also seemed to have forgotten that you don't need to put load of time/money into trying to get a uncontrollably fat tyre to be controlled on the trails, as a lot of time/money has already been invested in suspension products that are actually really good at the moment.
Anyway there is some good things happening. Bigger can be better and we are starting to get decent wide trail rims and I see Maxxis are going to be doing high volume (Wide Trail) tyres in their popular treads. I personally think this is the way it will start to go. 30-35mm rims with 2.4/5 high volume usable tyres.

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Vikb
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Vik Banerjee  - Jan. 18, 2016, 10:33 a.m.

I've been on 3″ tires on one of my bikes for 3yrs and had a fatbike for 6yrs. One thing I read about plus tires that doesn't jive with my experience is that as you get to lower pressures you have less force pushing knobs down into the ground add in the fact that big tires tend to have anaemic knobs to keep weight reasonable and I find them very slippery on any surfaces that require some bite from your tires. Roots, mossy rocks, mud, etc… I'd rather be on a 2.4″ tire with aggressive knobs.

There are certainly some trail conditions where a plus sized tire will grip better than a skinny tire, but I don't find those conditions enough at home to want to ride plus exclsuively or even most of the time.

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drewm
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DrewM  - Jan. 18, 2016, 8:50 a.m.

"I’m not sure what kind of sweet spot ‘they’ are talking about, and I wish their lovers all the best."

I laughed!

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Timmigrant
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Tim Coleman  - Jan. 18, 2016, 8:16 a.m.

From what I've heard from folks is that your opinion on mid-fat tires might be down to rider style and speed. From some of the top Enduro guys I've chatted with they've all had less than positive reviews so far. However some of the non-racer types have really liked the Plus tires.

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cam@nsmb.com
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Cam McRae  - Jan. 18, 2016, 3:48 p.m.

I'm in that category. My impressions of the 6Fattie were much closer to Dave's than Seb's. I thoroughly enjoyed the bike and certainly didn't find it lacked pop or quickness.

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mike
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Mike  - Jan. 18, 2016, 4:13 p.m.

Hey Cam,

How did you guys find the sizing on the 6Fattie? The geo looks "short" (on paper) compared to the "new gen" stuff, did you find a need to upsize or stay with your traditional size?

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cam@nsmb.com
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Cam McRae  - Jan. 18, 2016, 8:49 p.m.

I was okay on the Large Mike but most of my height is in my legs (I'm just over 6′). I wouldn't have complained if it had been longer but it didn't seem to slow me down either.

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asdf
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asdf  - Jan. 18, 2016, 7:54 a.m.

Good take on this showing both views. Thanks. I demoed one and my opinion was far different that both of these reviews. Actually smack dab in the middle of most of their comments.
Grip? Yes, agreed.
Pop? Yes off of impacts. No off of proper lips. #bigtirebounce
Uphill Speed? 5 percent penalty. No big deal.
Tire pressure? I couldn't solve this one either.
I think terrain choice is really going to be the thing with these. As my only bike its a no. A mid fat chromo hardtail though? Yes please.

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mike
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Mike  - Jan. 18, 2016, 7:08 a.m.

What did you guys think of sizjng/geometry? By the numbers, they look "short" compared to some of the "new gen" geos out there. The medium reach is the same as some of the smalls in other bikes. Anyways, just curious what your thoughts were on sizing.

Heavily considering this bike, but held up on the sizing question. I traditionally ride a medium, but feel I would need to upsize and short stem a large..??..

Thanks! Great feedback from both on the bike.

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cam@nsmb.com
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Cam McRae  - Jan. 18, 2016, 8:50 p.m.

How tall are you Mike? That might be a good idea.

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mike
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Mike  - Jan. 18, 2016, 9:47 p.m.

I'm a proportional 5'10". Rode a medium enduro 29 a couple seasons ago and felt it could have been a bit longer in the reach for me (but not quite large enduro 29 longer). Seems the large stumpy, on paper, sits between the medium and large enduro, and is about the same in reach as many "new gen" mediums (with the exception of top tube length, and head tube length, which are still classic "large" it seems). It's perplexing, because the medium stumpy seems short on paper.

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morgan-taylor
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Morgan Taylor  - Jan. 18, 2016, 6:49 a.m.

Unfortunately, it all comes back to the tires. Nobody has nailed it for the hard-charging crowd, yet.

I've been riding a number of the in-the-pipe 27.5+ tires and I am happy to say things are still improving.

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boomforeal
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boomforeal  - Jan. 18, 2016, 7:52 a.m.

Good point morg. In it's non-plus guise the purgatory is a rubbish front tire. And specialized's control casing is wafer thin. Combined with a too-thin-for -plus-sized rim (29mm id) I could definitely see the tires on this bike being it's weakest link

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drewm
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DrewM  - Jan. 18, 2016, 8:52 a.m.

It would be interesting to see if the review would differ significantly if Specialized made Plus tires with their Grid sidewall instead of the papery Control model. Definitely if you are used to DH (or "DH-light") casing support you aren't going to be happy with anything using an ultra thin/light/sloppy casing.

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Jerry-Rig
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Jerry Willows  - Jan. 18, 2016, 9:41 a.m.

make the casings beefier and there goes the weight.

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boomforeal
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boomforeal  - Jan. 18, 2016, 10:39 a.m.

thanks eeyore

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drewm
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DrewM  - Jan. 18, 2016, 11:08 a.m.

Absolutely true J-Dubya, but no one will be racing these bikes XC (competitively), or maybe racing them competitively at all, so does it matter?

I ran A Lot of different tires on my hardtail until I settled on my current favourites: a ~1200+ gram Magic Mary SG up front and a ~950+ gram Laughter Grid [sic / credit to Steve Sheldon] on the back. The weight is notable compared to other combos I've run but the damping and ride quality and so improved that it's well worth it.

My only interest in Plus bikes is academic (I'm very happy with my ~2.3 DH- light tires), and I'm not suggesting the results will ever match the marketing, but I think with "real" tires a lot of the issues with the current bikes would be resolved.

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Jerry-Rig
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Jerry Willows  - Jan. 18, 2016, 2:22 p.m.

your 1200 gram tires in a 2.3 are going to be 1600 grams in a 2.8 - 3.0… no sale. If the proponents of plus say the tire technology will get better, then it will get better for 2.3 size.

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Jerry-Rig
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Jerry Willows  - Jan. 18, 2016, 2:23 p.m.

huh?

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kirk
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Kirk  - Jan. 18, 2016, 4:12 p.m.

What is this "laughter grid" you speak of?

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drewm
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DrewM  - Jan. 18, 2016, 4:46 p.m.

Some of the heaviest parts of the tire (bead/beadlock and tread) are smaller diameter than a 29'er tire (650b+ still drops the BB almost an inch comparing the exact same bike with 29×2.3) so the total weight increase for same/same 650b+ x3″ vs. 29×2.3″ tire is likely ~200 grams max.

There are lots of reasons Plus isn't going to be the end-all-be-all, and there are geo concerns re. just throwing in a set of niner hoops when you want to go for an all day pedal, but I think tire concerns could easily be addressed if hitting a weight target wasn't a concern. 29ers had exactly the same evolution.

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drewm
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DrewM  - Jan. 18, 2016, 4:52 p.m.

"You can't spell Slaughter without Laughter" - Machete Steve

The point being that the Specialized Slaughter Grid is a hilarious tire. Tons of cornering grip, rolls soooo fast, and sweet damping.

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team-robot
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TEAM ROBOT  - Jan. 21, 2016, 11:21 a.m.

And you know what else sucks? Heavy 29er tires. I've run 29″ DH casing Maxxis, and it's like swapping the air in your tires with water. Makes the bike feel horrible, even at high speed. If you're comparing 29″ tires to 650+, then I can already tell you that heavier sidewalls on 650+ will suck. Couldn't agree more with Jerry.

I think it comes down to rider skill and speed. If you're fast, you crush tires when you hit stuff hard. The current 2.3-2.5″ volume, high pressure setup is tailor made for you. You ride fast enough to deform the high pressure tire, and deformation creates traction.

If you're slow, you don't go fast enough to significantly deform 2.3″ tires, and by contrast plus sized tires at low pressure feel amazing: they deform around stuff, don't deflect you off line, and don't sap speed via trail chatter. You also don't go fast enough to discover when they suck.

Thanks for the great review go out to Dave and Seb, and the guys at NSMB for dreaming up this dual-review. Great article.

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cam@nsmb.com
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Cam McRae  - Jan. 26, 2016, 1:37 p.m.

Did you fall in love or something Charlie? (thanks for the props!)

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cam@nsmb.com
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Cam McRae  - Jan. 26, 2016, 1:41 p.m.

Eeyore is a character in the Winnie-the-Pooh books by A. A. Milne. He is generally characterized as a pessimistic, gloomy, depressed, anhedonic, old grey stuffed donkey who is a friend of the title character, Winnie-the-Pooh.

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cooper
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Cooper Quinn  - Jan. 18, 2016, 9:37 a.m.

This. The 'gen 1' + tires seem to kind of suck. Universally (some more than others, maybe. but not really enough to matter).

Maybe the next round will be better, but if they are… they're going to be heavier, because they need more sidewall to cure some of the squirminess and sketchiness under load. The current bible pages they've got for sidewalls just aren't going to cut it for "the hard-charging crowd".

+ bikes are currently a 'quiver' bike, not an 'only' bike. You can take most current 'all mountain/enduro' bikes pretty much everywhere from 8 hour epics to the bike park. You're going to be pretty unhappy on A-line on the current crop of + tires.

At the end of it all… How much more tire do you need than a 2.4 or 2.5?

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Faction
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Derp  - Jan. 18, 2016, 10:16 a.m.

Its a combination of tread pattern and sidewall construction for sure. However, its also the natural trait that a wider surface area will float more than a narrow one. That is largely inescapable.

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rvoi
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rvoi  - Jan. 18, 2016, 10:17 a.m.

For more experienced riders, the plus size seems to do better as a hardtail. Will that change with better tires?

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drewm
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DrewM  - Jan. 18, 2016, 11 a.m.

Depends who you talk to, some folks who've ridden them on hardtails and duallies say the tire pressure issue is even more of an issue on the hardtail as the difference between a basketball and rim strikes/foldover/flats is ?!?!

Again a more supportive casing would largely resolve - This - issue. Not saying it's for everyone but I have a few riding buddies who really enjoy singlespeeds (hardtails) and have various ailments/old injuries that make them unrideable. Plus could change that (although Singlespeeding a plus bike might be ridiculous?)

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skyler
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Skyler  - Jan. 19, 2016, 3:19 a.m.

I've been running some 60tpi 48a Dirt Wizards, which come out at about about 2.9″, on 45mm (internal) rims. I would guess this combo would have made Seb much much happier. As Morgan says, the tire/rim combo is the key.

My experience might be different because I'm on a hard tail though.

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morgan-taylor
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Morgan Taylor  - Jan. 22, 2016, 12:27 p.m.

Yup – that's a solid combo!

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