schwalbe magic mary radial cover
Review

Schwalbe Magic Mary Radial Tires

Reading time

Radial tires? I originally thought they arrived in the 60s but, aside from a few models, most cars rode on bias plies into the 70s. Radials were originally patented as a design concept in 1914 but weren't actually manufactured until 1946 when Michelin took up the cause. Because the tiremaker also owned the Citroën brand, they spec'ed the first car to roll off the line with radials with the 1948 2CV. Widespread adoption occurred in North America when consumer reports laid out the advantages in terms of safety, wear, handling and fuel consumption in 1968, and we've been there ever since. Except in mountain biking that is. We've been rolling on bias ply tires since the beginning.

reddit radial vs bias ply

In automotive tires, radial is taken quite literally as you can see the cords in the tire on the left wrapping around the tire at 90º to the direction of travel while in the bias ply on the right the cords are at 45º. Image - Reddit

But actually, it's not that simple. In motor vehicles, radial tires have plies, essentially cords, that run from one bead to the other in a straight line, at 90º to the direction of travel. In bias ply tires, those cords run at 45º and they go in layers from both sides, crossing each other. The plies of Schwalbe's radials don't encircle the tire at 90º like conventional automotive tires but they don't run at 45º like a bias ply either. Sitting somewhere between the two, you could easily call them more radial but not fully radial, but we'll allow it.

radial carcass vs bias ply

Conventional tire casing angle on the left and Schwalbe's Radial version on the right.

Why Radial?

Schwalbe's goals were "to develop flexible tires with maximum utilization of the contact area that offer even more grip, safety and comfort." Because the cords are aligned more radially, they are shorter which results in a lower density of cords for a given area. That means when your tire is in contact with an object, or simply with the ground, fewer plies will resist the force applied to that portion of the tire. Schwalbe tells us this produces the results they were seeking.

Another factor in the increased traction, according to Schwalbe, is that the tires don't just deform more, they deform more selectively. This means that trail debris will deflect a smaller area of the tire keeping more rubber in contact with the ground.

schwalbe radial vs bias ply

On the left is a graphic illustration of a conventional mountain bike tire casing, with the cords running at 45º to the direction of travel, while the new radial construction is pictured on the right. If you trace a line across the carcass from left to right, you'll notice that you cross many more cords in the original casing. By my calculations there are a maximum of 18 cords crossed in the bias ply casing and a maximum of 8 with the more radial casing.

Tire Pressures Required

Before you get to the trail you may notice some differences between these tires and what you are used to. If you give them a squeeze, you might discover that your pressure seems low. While that may be true, if you check, they could be set at your usual pressure because Schwalbe's radials deform more easily to the pressure applied by your hand. This is true on the trail as well. Your usual pressure might feel too soft at first, particularly if you prefer higher pressures. I generally run 19 front and 21 rear or so and while they felt too soft, they performed pretty well. I didn't have too much squirm and they cornered well but I found it a little unnerving so I added pressure going up to 24/26 psi. At these pressures the trail feel was similar to other tires at my usual pressures, and at first I assumed performance as we similar as well.

On a recent ride, both of my buddies were complaining about the grip. They were slipping in corners and even on straight lines and I hadn't noticed any issues at all. I felt like the conditions were entirely normal, and this was running 5 psi more than I usually do. Schwalbe says that, for a given pressure, you will get a larger contact patch which could explain the added grip I was feeling.

magic mary radial

The well-loved, high-grip Magic Mary pattern stays the same.

Physics 100 Digression

A larger contact patch for a given pressure doesn't seem to line up with the physics as I understand them, which dictates that tire patch area is determined by air pressure and load. However, the same should be true of the squeeze test; the deflection of the tire should be dependent on tire pressure and the force you are applying. One squeeze will tell you this is not the case which must mean the construction of the tire has an impact as well. This could be because the increased suppleness of the casing allows an impact to deform the tire further because the rest of the carcass swells slightly due to the increased pressure,* which could be what is happening in terms of contact patch as well.

*Or it may be because the deflection is more selective so you can push deeper because you are pushing against fewer casing cords.

Deniz merdano cam santa cruz vala 8

These tires came on the Santa Cruz Vala I'm testing. You can see a cosmetic crosshatch representing the more radial casing cords, but otherwise they seem identical to the existing Magic Mary tires. The front is a 29x2.5 Magic Mary Trail Radial Ultra Soft. Photos - Deniz Merdano

Deniz merdano cam santa cruz vala 9

The rear is a 27.5x2.5 Magic Mary Gravity Radial Soft. Both front and rear have been stellar in some very dodgy conditions.

On the Trail

A friend told me that her husband, who had been running the tires in the Santa Cruz area, had to go up to 35 psi to get the support he wanted. That sounded a little crazy to me, and I felt like I was getting lots of support at 24/26 but there are other factors involved. The riding in Santa Cruz is generally higher speed than we have on the Shore and berms and jumps like you'd find in a bike park are also more prevalent. I believe this gentleman is a little burlier than I am as well. Still, this got me thinking about what the radials would feel like at pressures significantly higher than I had already tried, so I went up another 4 psi to 28/30 and saddled up for a moist ride.

The day before we'd had a big storm that started with more nasty rain (although much less than our recent flooding event - it came down harder and did lots of trail damage) followed by some very high winds that knocked out power across much of the North Shore. I knew what I was in for so I packed my small folding saw. I should have packed the big one.

On the climb, the tires felt just fine. I had lots of grip and they were still comfortable, without excessive rebound from impacts. I spent about an hour cutting out deadfall that was across the climbing trail and it was long past full dark by the time I got to the trailhead, and I was a little nervous. When we lost power, we'd needed my riding lights in our home to go along with some candles. Between that and the clearing work, I didn't have as much juice as I wanted so my headlight was off and my bar light was on medium. I started off tentatively with my overinflated rubber, particularly on wet woodwork, but my confidence soon grew. I had no grip issues and managed to ride with relative confidence, and the moist wooden structures were no problem at all, at least until I lost my lights completely and had to limp out using my iPhone's flashlight app.

Deniz merdano cam santa cruz vala 45

I have yet to encounter a trail condition that wasn't suitable for the Schwalbe Magic Mary Radials. Photo - Deniz Merdano

Downsides

Pinch flats are more likely when deflection increases so, for a given pressure, you could expect to have more pinches on Schwalbe's radials. The big but here is that you can ride with higher pressures and still get good trail feel and traction. In terms of punctures from sharp objects, this is what Schwalbe says; "Since we have only adjusted the angle of the carcass threads, but not the number of carcass plies or the material thickness, Schwalbe radial tires are no more susceptible to punctures than bias ply tires. The cut and puncture protection therefore remains positive." I haven't had any flats since I've been riding these and, unusually for me, I haven't been running inserts.

Schwalbe goes on to say that the increased contact patch will increase rolling resistance some but I haven't noticed these tires to be slow rolling at all.

Deniz merdano cam santa cruz vala 43

Wet conditions are no match for Schwalbe's radial construction, at least using Magic Marys with Soft compound rear and Ultra Soft up front. Photo - Deniz Merdano

Overall Findings

This is the first time in a very long time that Santa Cruz has spec'ed tires that didn't come from Maxxis, which is a strong recommendation. For the riding we do in southwestern British Columbia, grip is king, particularly until at least April, and these provide heaps of traction without having to lower your tire pressure to the point that your steering becomes vague at speed. You have the choice of running your usual pressure and having more than usual traction and comfort, or ramping it up to have similar traction to what you are used to but with more precise feeling tires, assuming we are comparing other tires with soft rubber. I have decided to split the difference and run a little more pressure than usual to get better traction, good stability and sidewall support and a little extra protection from pinches.

So far so good.

Schwalbe Radial Tires

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Comments

velocipedestrian
+5 Timer ohio Cam McRae BarryW Derek Baker

"Ultra Soft compound rear and Soft up front" is this a typo? 

All the reviews are positive so far, I'm watching with interest to see if any downsides appear after the novelty honeymoon wears off. Quietly hoping this is a development who's time has come, and leads to better tyres for all.

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dolface
+1 ohio

Based on the pics and other captions it is indeed a typo :)

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cam@nsmb.com
+6 Abies Velocipedestrian cxfahrer JVP vunugu lennskii

Just making sure you’re paying attention. 

Also, typos are great for comments because people love pointing them out!

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amschroeder5
+4 Cam McRae Lynx . Andy Eunson vunugu

Not your fault, but the marketing materials don't actually show what different tire constructions would look like. The images on left and right are exactly identical, annoyingly, and the close in shot is actually an identical substructure, just rotated, which is obviously not actually possible because the angle of incidence would be different, not pure 90 like what is shown in the image.

Its also basically impossible to compare casings of different ply counts and bias degrees confounded, when sampling to reviewers. Again not your fault, but 100% an intentional deception by Schwalbe.

Also also, ---"Since we have only adjusted the angle of the carcass threads, but not the number of carcass plies or the material thickness, Schwalbe radial tires are no more susceptible to punctures than bias ply tires. The cut and puncture protection therefore remains positive."--- this is factually incorrect. 

The ply bias has a huge impact on the deformation from sharp objects in the direction of increasing angle, and the same way in which the tire itself deforms, so too a sharp object can puncture easier, in that direction of travel at least. In the acute orientation, puncture resistance is improved, as stress gets more easily distributed through plies, and more cords are in the way.

The only situation in which bias angle doesn't matter is in an infinitesimally small point puncture, smaller than the cord spacing, which is something even the sharpest of real world road object won't provide (sewing needle or finer basically). Even a ballpoint pen or roofing nail or similar is a blunt (locally) impact.

But hey... marketing... I am still curious to see the tires used, and they could be an improvement. But the marketing is particularly suspect this time around.

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Lynx
+5 Anthony Schroeder Cam McRae Andy Eunson Suns_PSD Derek Baker

Let me introduce you to the Cossy Bush thorn, local here, a big, VERY sharp and hard, needle we encounter a lot if riding in certain areas of the island, they can easily puncture car/vehicle tyres.

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amschroeder5
0

Fair enough those exist and certainly qualify. What I failed to articulate properly is that any hard object sufficiently sharp to not care about the bias angle, also probably is going to go straight through without resistance, and so comparing puncture resistance against those objects is an excerise in futility. 

Puncture resistance of basically any tire against those epic thorns is probably not what I would term as "positive" haha.

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Cougar797
0

I've been using tannus and tube setups. I love them for this thorny reasons and other. Those plus the radial thing might be a perfect pair as I keep pressure in them a bit higher then when I did tubeless.

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cam@nsmb.com
+1 Anthony Schroeder

Legit. 

I realized that image was problematic (without drilling down as far as you did) but still felt it was useful to help point out that these radials aren’t actually radial. 

We often need to sort through information that the marketers added after the engineers and designers did their work and had their say. And sometimes we figure it out too late. 

The Koolaid can be potent.

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Jotegir
+3 Cr4w Cam McRae BarryW

I'm curious if our California friend felt like he was still getting benefits of the tire at 35 PSI or if he'd be better served with a more traditional tire at lower pressures.

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cam@nsmb.com
+1 IslandLife

I’ll see what I can find out.

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cam@nsmb.com
+7 Velocipedestrian JVP LDG Lynx . Anthony Schroeder XXX_er lennskii

Okay, you asked for it! This may be longer than my article but it has a lot of great info:

“32 front and rear. 185 lb. Advanced/expert. I settled on this PSI for high speed g-out stability and to keep the support in corners. The tire patch, the tops of the tires, remain soft regardless of how much air you put in them - just like a car tire.

I started at normal pressures and on jumps or lips, it was completely unpredictable. It wasn’t precise. It was mushy. I lost the front end and it was because the tires are so confident inspiring that when you push down into the bike and you’d expecting a normal tire to rebound, it just folds. 

For the average rider who stays on the ground, you get insane traction. It’s unbelievable. For most riders, it’s incredible. It’s really good. 

I started at about 23 PSI, then added 2-3 PSI at a time. Then jumped from 28 to 32. It still had a ton of traction and I felt confident. I’m a fairly light rider on the bike, I’m not one of those people who take pride in breaking things. I spent a month riding Squamish, Whistler, the Shore, and Revelstoke without any sidewall tears or puncture. 

If you’re looking at tire wear, particularly the sharp knobs, you’ll notice it. But even as the edges of the knobs round out (which is quickly) the compound is so soft and conforms to the ground, you will still get the grip. Even as the tire looks visibly worn. The edges of the knobs is what wear, it doesn’t cut into the base of the knobs (yet). 

I have approximately 500 miles on the bike. “

“Would you run them again?” (My spy asking the questions!)

“Hard question. Not sure I would spend extra money on them. 

For a lot of people, I don’t know if people will spend the time to like them. I spent enough time on them to figure it out. It’s challenging trying to reeducate riders, which makes it a challenging tire to spec as an OEM or to recommend. “

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LDG
+1 lennskii

But for a normal rider who does a bit of everything (tech, trail, jumps) what I read is:
Higher pressures for the same feeling =
+ less need for inserts
+ less punctures
+ less burping

- ???
So If you have the time and patience to find your pressures, is there a downside at all?

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XXX_er
+1 Cam McRae

Thanks for digging that up ^^ 

my first response is that MAYBE the radial design for mtn biking needs more work ???

and the second response  has the radial worked into road or gravel tires yet ???

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Suns_PSD
+3 Cam McRae cheapondirt Andy Eunson

I've had 4 different versions of the radial tires and I find them pretty darn good. Where I ride it's rocky hardpack. I'm not a huge shredder, but I do 3-4' drops often and lots of brutal rocks. I'm also pretty quick through the turns, but turns here are so loose you don't load up tires very hard, it's just too slippery.

Anyways, the Alberts run small, real small in fact. Still they perform quite well as a rear tire for an aggressive AM bike, and darn well as a front on my trail bike. If you want an actual 2.5, better order the 2.6.

The MM is very good and sized more accurately, but when it hits hardpack it does what a MM does, folding knobs and what not. I'd still prefer an Assagai in these conditions.

Haven't tested the Shredda's yet. They look interesting for the e-bike, but my gosh they are heavy.

For me, they don't roll slow at all. I think they absorb so much trail chatter that they actually might roll faster than comparable tires.

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cam@nsmb.com
+1 Graham Driedger

Great feedback!

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craw
+1 Jotegir

Are you going to go back to inserts or does the gravity casing now provide enough support at your typical pressures? I’d much rather run heavier casings and not use inserts anymore (I’ve been using CC Trail).

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fartymarty
+1 Cam McRae

FWIW I'm running Gravity's F+R on the Murmur and did so in the Alps this year with no issues - including the brutal rock section of the Mega Quali track.

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craw
0

How much do you weigh and what bike? Were you an insert user before this?

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fartymarty
0

90kg nudie, 2 degree slackened Starling Murmur 160/140, Ohlins coils F+R.  Ive not used inserts before as never felt the need locally.  The Mega Quali track was the first time it may have been a good idea but I went up to 28 in the rear and had no rim dings or pinches.

Following this i'm either going to stick with Schwalbe Gravitys or something of an equivalent weight.

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cam@nsmb.com
0

The support is good but I prefer to have inserts I can ride out on so that’s more of a deciding factor for me, especially in winter.

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Jotegir
0

Is this because you appreciate the traction benefit from running what would otherwise be excessively low tire pressures in the wet winter, or because changing a tire trailside is particularly lousy in the winter. Both?

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LDG
0

+1

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andy-eunson
+1 BarryW

I think this is a technology that one needs to try to believe. I understand why a radial would be softer and more compliant but my mind says once you add more air to reduce rim strikes or tire roll it’s the same softness. Back in the day the Ritchey WCS xc race tires were more supple than the same tire in non WCS form at the same pressures. Same with road bikes. Softer more supple casings were faster rolling, more grip, more comfortable.  So from that perspective I get it. And a mild shoulder and rib injury from crashing on wet roots makes me want to try these in a lighter enduro ish type casing.

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xy9ine
+4 Jotegir Cr4w Andy Eunson Lynx .

oooh, bad memories of the wcs red compound ritcheys (tales from the rocking chair). was initially stoked about them - super light, soft / grippy compound, and looked cool - but i think they erred on the too supple end of the spectrum & were comically flat prone. jettisoned after my first race on them.

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Lynx
+1 Andy Eunson

Yeah, it's truly amazing how bad quite a lot of tyres were, really. It was like every ride you got a flat, now I can go a year or more without one - I guess tubeless and 29ers help, but even before I ran exclusively tubeless, like from 2010>.

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andy-eunson
+1 Lynx .

Weren’t they though! Too small with hard rubber and weird tread patterns. Plus tubes. Tires are a zillion times better today. And so many choices in compound, size, casing  and tread pattern today.

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cheapondirt
+1 Cam McRae

Count me as another interested party. I don't ride a lot of treacherous conditions and am amply satisfied with the traction available from the preexisting Mary, so it's the ride quality that appeals. My question is will it be objectively better, or will it just be a different compromise than the old version?

For example, I have a Magic Mary Super Trail Ultra Soft and a Hillbilly Grid Trail T9. They are very directly competing products. The Hillbilly gives a tiny bit of a smoother ride, while the  Mary feels ever-so-slightly more supportive but less quiet. I've tried and failed to pick a favourite.

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XXX_er
+1 Andy Eunson

How were these tires to change any problems getting them to seat ??

I can remember radial car tires first coming out and all looking kinda flat but tire pressures seemed to remain the same ?

also it was verboten to mix bias  and  radial tire so does that still apply ?

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Lynx
0

Was wondering what your conclusion was going to be with regards to tyre pressure Cam, think you went just were I'd go, bit more, but maybe not as much as you can. Curious, but you didn't mention if going to higher pressures helped decreased rolling resistance/made them pedal easier/faster?

I'm patiently awaiting something more XC/Trail friendly in this design from Schwalbe, very patiently :-\

In the distant past, Schwalbe's were OK, but on aggressive tyres side knobs would tear off too easily, then they redesigned them sometime 2014, I think it was and they have been golden since. I had a set of NN/HD in 2.6" that I ran on the rigid that I really liked and can't wait to try that same combo, maybe even RR/NN in this radial configuration - less tready since most reviewers say you seem to get much more grip.

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Timer
+1 Andy Eunson

I guess they went with “more radial” (i like it) gravity tyres first, because the benefits are more obvious the thicker the casing. 

XC tyres are already very supple and compliant, not sure how much would be gained by making them more radial.

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Lynx
0

Cam missed it mostly, and I guess you might have as well if you didn't read other overviews, but it's not just subtleness they will offer, it's also less harsh, undamped rebound and if you've ever ridden PLUS at proper low pressures, you'd understand what a big deal that is. Once you're riding PLUS, you don't need as aggressive tread to get the same grip, really can't wait to see this in some 2.6" or better yet 2.8" XC/Light Trail type tyres.

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cam@nsmb.com
+1 Abies

We’ll, I did say this:

“On the climb, the tires felt just fine. I had lots of grip and they were still comfortable, without excessive rebound from impacts.”

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Lynx
+1 Cam McRae

That's why I said mostly, because you did mention that, but what I'm talking about is at speed, on off camber hitting roots running not at 90 degrees to the trail and having your front wheel slowly bounce to the side of the trail on each successive root hit, not a nice feeling, something I think you don't/won't notice as much with smaller tyres and/or suspension.

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zigak
+1 Cr4w

I'm on a RR 2.4 and will probably try Albert Trail Radial 2.5 Soft, because ultra soft is not available just jet.

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craw
0

Check Fanatik in Bellingham

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cam@nsmb.com
+1 Andy Eunson

I’m not certain about rolling resistance, and the science/research can be a little contradictory. I think it often feels faster with higher pressures because you feel so much more from the trail but that also means your tire is deflecting rather than absorbing impacts which should be slower. Even roadies have gone down in pressure after discovering that lower pressures can be faster.

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Timer
+1 Cam McRae

With MTB tyres, the RR theory is quite complicated. Lower pressures allow for more impact absorption, which is good. But it also brings more of the large, very soft rubber side knobs into contact with the ground, which is bad.

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