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RockShox Pike vs. Fox 34
Walking around with my chest sticking out, pretending I know a whole lot about suspension design and setup, is pretty bold. While I probably know more than the average golden retriever, having less knowledge than I would like regarding the internal workings of a damper doesn't help with imposter syndrome. I have however tested a few different brands and models of forks over the years. I've worked with forks as basic as the coil-sprung Marzocchi Z1 with a twist, and as internally complex as the EXT Era V2. To be honest, I am constantly surprised when I can detect subtle changes in the suspension feel not only between different forks but in the settings of a fork on my test bikes. My battered wrists and spindly arms can detect imperfections in the damping circuits with little effort. As you can imagine, some brands' damping circuits feel better than others.
I don't have enough trail time on the RockShox ZEB but I've never found it tough to dissect. Both Lyrik and Pike have been on a few bikes I've tested in the last couple of years. They carried clues to the how the thick-boned ZEB would behave on the Shore. I personally wish the 170mm Lyrik still existed.
The other big brand suspension people had me playing with the Fox 36 Grip 2 and the Marzocchi Z1 with both Grip and Grip 2 dampers.
I stepped into Pike territory on the SCOR 2030 I tested. The 140mm travel fork with the Charger 3 damper performed well and was easy to dial in. It was set to about 75psi and 0 clicks in both high speed and low speed compression circuits. Life was good. The bike felt balanced with a 140/120 setup and the teeny tiny Deluxe Ultimate model kept up with the chaos of the North Shore.
When I encouraged Karin to try the SCOR, she told me it felt way too fast for the suspension performance it provided. The bike would shoot off from underneath her on compressions and would force her to hang off the back as it took her on a ride. I disagreed, but also understand the wild nature of a short travel dual link platform.
I personally liked the rather chaotic, edge of destruction feel of the fast bike. It took you to the point of no return and kept you there until you finished the trail, grinning like a buffoon, or cartwheeling into the bushes. "Hells yea, the bike should make you feel alive," I told myself after every ride.
Then came the time to participate in a silly ol' Whistler Classic: The Back 40.
Disguised as an XC race (false advertising, really) it is anything but. Climbing up to the flank on Whistler's West side twice after blowing your heart up on the Cheakamus trails is a masochist's wet dream.
Shortly before this, Fox Canada painted us Kashima gold with the launch of their new dampers and a 34 GripX clamped onto my bike. This 140mm beauty of a fork in gloss black and gold decals was a noticeable upgrade to the Charger 3 Pike that came OEM on the Scor. Lighter in weight and better composed in the rough trails, the 34 got set to 80ish psi and often wide open compression circuits, a regular setting for me. The naturally progressive nature of the Fox air spring makes getting full travel rather rare. Not a bad feature but more apparent than some of the other forks in the market. Nowadays, I remove all but one of the tokens (air chamber-reducing pucks).
The Grip X damper was a good step forward for Fox. On paper, it delivers the performance of the well-loved Grip 2 damper with a simpler rebound circuit. Bigger pistons and more oil flow was also on the menu. The little Scor welcomed the Fox 34 Grip X. The 34's lively nature suited the 2030's demeanour. I also find this to be true with both the 36 and the 38 in Grip 2 form. Manuals became easier, jumps grew longer and the bike became more fun. While I don't always see the intersection of 'fun and safety' in the Venn diagram, the delta pointed towards livelier yet better managed travel with the Grip X damper.
The innovation train kept rolling and the Red team was working on a new damper at the same time as the Kashima team. The Charger 3.1 damper hit the market as buttercups continued to melt the trail away. It seems like SRAM wanted to create a more usable compression and rebound adjustment range for lighter and heavier people with the new Charger 3.1 damper. They claim 68% more oil flow through the low speed compression (LSC) circuit to create a smoother feeling fork and allowing people to actually use the compression damping dials instead of setting them to wide open from the first day.
I have been guilty of the wide open frenzy myself for the last couple of years of riding mountain bikes in the woods. Being a 160lb rider who rides on the side of bouncy, it wasn't until I switched to downhill casing tires that I really started pushing into the bike. Previously, on lighter casings, I rode lightly to avoid punctures. My riding style is ever evolving and I am learning new things about myself, the bike and nature every time I get out there.
A nice chat with some SRAM folks drove the point across that I should be trying the new Charger 3.1 with a Pike 140 on the SCOR. The changes to the Charger damper and the air spring of the Pike were the most drastic updates. The new damper and air spring are also compatible with the previous Pike's Charger 3.
New forks in hand, I looked at the Scor and accepted the inevitable; I had to set up a back-to-back testing session.
The logistics of a back-to-back were messy and I didn't know how to flawlessly execute the task. Not really thinking it through in a detailed manner, I figured some new information would reveal itself during testing. Turns out, Dave Tolnai was hoping to conduct a similar test, and some brainstorming was in order. We first had to find a section of trail that was suitable for a 10-lap mission. Ideally rough, fast and not very steep, facilitating the hike back up for another (9 anothers! -Ed).
After some deliberation, we agreed the top 1/8th of the infamous Ned's Atomic Dustbin would be the ideal testing ground. After its rejuvenation a couple of years ago by Ted Tempany for Metro Vancouver, the rim-dingin' riverbed of a trail became significantly more wheel-friendly. After two years of erosion and heavy traffic it is now a perfect ribbon of rough and fast single track that is too much fun to descend, as long as it is not extremely dry and slippery. It is the ideal wet weather trail.
10 Laps to make it Right
I decided I needed about five laps per fork to get a good understanding of what was going on. I first proposed to swap the fork after each run to get a good grasp of the differences, but Uncle Dave reminded me that would be the task of a fool on the side of the trail. After closing my eyes and imagining myself losing all the bolts and adapters while dropping the headset bearings into the dirt with every fork swap, I agreed and decided one fork change would be plenty If I planned my laps right.
Fork #1
Lap 1 - My settings (sag and compression).
These settings are the ones I've arrived at after a few rides on the forks. I think I have enough time on both forks to consider them "close to ideal".
Lap 2 - Factory recommended settings (sag and compression).
While neither of the brands specifically suggests any compression settings for any given pressure, Fox does suggest starting in the middle and playing with it. RockShox does have 0 as their middle point with + and - on either side, so I started there for the Pike, too.
Lap 3 - Factory sag setting if they feel better or my sag setting if they don't. This is where I wanted to start playing with compression settings. Generally, opting to have them both fully closed or fully open to see if the extreme changes made a noticeable difference.
Lap 4 - Either sag setting with the compression fully closed again.
Lap 5 - Either sag setting with compression fully open.
Switch Forks
Repeat the procedure.
Results
I wasn't entirely sure what to expect, but after a drastic change, I secretly wanted to be able to say, "Man, this fork is unridable in those compression settings." I figured I could make the fork feel worse if I followed the brand's recommendations and proved that I was better at setting up a suspension than a tiny decal chart on the fork leg.
Neither of these forks are bad or even worse than the other. The most obvious quantifiable difference is their weight. With identical length steerer tubes and crown races, I put these two forks on the scale and the Fox 34 came in at 1,743g and the Pike at 1,915g. A 172g (6oz) difference, while not significant, is enough to help the gram counter decide. I really couldn't tell if one was lighter than the other on the bike.
There were other, more obvious things happening with every lap. When I did the first lap on the Pike with my settings, everything felt fine and good. On the second lap, I lowered the fork pressure to the suggested 70psi from the 75 that I had settled on and I could immediately tell it was too low. I used all the travel in a hurry and started bottoming the tire out on the rocks too. If the speeds were slower and I wanted more comfort than what was already there, it could have been a viable pressure to run. Or perhaps with higher bars I could shift my weight back to use the fork less. For the 3rd lap on the Pike, I left the suggested air pressure and closed the compression fully to see if the compression would compensate for the lower pressure fork dive.
As the compression knobs went all the way left for fully unrestricted oil flow, I realized how the air pressures I settled on helped with the rider-induced suspension movement while the compression damping helped with the trail-induced suspension movements.
When I increased the pressure up to my 75psi setting and closed the compression all the way, something magical happened. The little Pike grew up and pretended to be its older sibling the Lyrik. The rough and fast Ned's became glass smooth. I couldn't really believe the increase in compression would improve the ride quality so much. I did a few more laps, playing with the compression all the way from open to closed, and the more compression I ran, the faster I could ride.
I then slapped the Fox 34 on the bike.
There was an immediate change in the bike's character. The happy Scor wanted to skip the dips on the trail and double sections the Pike wanted to plow through. It was like the energy of the rider/bike combination was harder to contain on the ground. A perceivably bouncier and slightly less controlled ride was not exactly what I wanted after the Pike session.
I was within a pound or so of Fox's recommended pressures on the 34 and it felt really good. I did not deviate from the 85psi I had the fork at. My other settings were:
HSC 11 clicks
LSC 8 clicks
Rebound 10 clicks
I then continued to fiddle the compression knobs on the 34 like I did to the Pike a few runs earlier. A fully closed compression circuit lap was in order and the Fox really improved its composure with the knobs turned all the way to the right. While not Pike levels of supple and calm, the lively 34 settled into a nice, sure stance under me. I even had a bit of a light bulb moment on my 3rd run with the little Fox. As the compression knobs went all the way left for fully unrestricted oil flow, I realized how the air pressures I settled on helped with the rider-induced suspension movement while the compression damping helped with the trail induced suspension inputs.
As the sun set over the western slopes of Seymour mountain, my eyes started struggling to keep up with the speeds these awesome forks were letting me achieve. One particular left hander early up on my test track revealed the stiffness of the chassis of both fork architectures. While the 35mm-stanchioned Pike would steer as I commanded it to and carry its line, the Fox 34 had a bit more flex between its legs, causing understeer in demanding corners. It would then snap back into shape and allow me to exit the corner with a slightly different trajectory than the Pike. If it wasn't for this back-to-back, I wouldn't have noticed this.
When I checked the GPS tracks afterwards, the fastest lap, at 30.8 km/h top speed, was with the Pike at 75psi and compression fully closed. This also felt the most comfortable setting to go fast on. It just made me want to push harder. While I restrained myself to 80% or so effort for repeatability, I really liked the Pike on our test section.
When I got back home, I made a jig to compress the forks the same amount at the same time. I wanted to see if one was more progressive than the other. The Pike, with less overall air pressure, suggested a higher volume positive air chamber and the Fox with 10psi more for my weight suggested a smaller air chamber.
When I inflated both to 8.5 psi and compressed a little more than halfway, I got 20 psi in both. While this is not a conclusive result for me, it may be the difference in negative air chamber sizes or the shock pumps that make up the difference on each fork. I did think about filling them up with water for a split second but quickly thought better of it.
How do you Choose?
I guess you just don't. If either of these forks came stock on my bike I would not be running out the door to switch. I like that there are options to run excellent suspension on shorter travel bikes and it is amazing they can feel like bigger forks. While the Pike has a stiffer chassis along with air release ports in the lowers, the Fox 34 will win your heart with its lighter overall weight. Both forks will take thread on fenders and if this is of any importance to you, I think the Fox is a nicer looking fork. The gloss finish and the Kashima stanchions are beautiful and the paint seems to hold up slightly better than the Pike where the brake hose rubs.. I like the hose clamp on the Pike as it is nicer looking but the Fox clamp is perhaps easier to use.
I wonder how the Pike would feel with a front hub that has Torque caps that will potentially stiffen up the legs a little more? I like the recent inclusion of the plastic reducers that bolt into the dropouts if you are not using Torque cap hubs.
With more tuning and bracketing, either of the forks can be excellent performers. I didn't set out to squeeze all the performance out of one fork with this test. Rather to give insight into how different they felt ridden one after another. Does the fork setup matter if it's done wrong? What is more important, sag (air spring pressure) or damping?
I am very curious to see how the heavy compression damping will behave when the ground gets saturated with H₂O and speeds slow down significantly on the Shore. I would love to do a couple more laps in slippery conditions to see if less compression damping means more traction or if a different approach to setup would achieve that.
Ever since this test, I also started employing more compression damping on my 170mm Fox 38 Grip 2 and the DHX2 shock on the Rallon with very satisfactory results. As I continue my journey to explore the vast corners of the suspension universe, while I don't race or compete, it is very satisfying to try to ruin the performance of a fork and instead, accidentally improve it.
How do you set your suspension up?
5'8"
162lbs
Playful, lively riding style
Photographer and Story Teller
Lenticular Aesthetician
Comments
Nick Meulemans
1 month, 1 week ago
Simply scrolled down to the bottom to mention that Manitou Mattoc should have been included
Manitou fanboy, out
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handsomedan
1 month, 1 week ago
So increased compression (slower rate of compression / stiffer feeling fork) all the way closed at 75 psi felt the best for the pike?
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Deniz Merdano
1 month, 1 week ago
That is correct.. for that day on that section of trail at least...
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BarryW
1 month, 1 week ago
I'm running a Marzocchi Z1 coil with the Grip damper and it's basically locked out when turned full on. How 'locked' is the damper here?
And interestingly I've been running more and more compression damping on said fork while riding park this summer (well, until a slow fall on a tech move broke my shoulder 6 weeks ago) and it has been interesting how good it feels. But I'm only just beyond halfway on the sweep. I've tried more but backed off some due to it feeling harsh through my hands.
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Deniz Merdano
1 month, 1 week ago
Grip damper is excellent over all. The new Grip X mimics alot of the architecture from that design too. The fully closed GripX is on "lockout" mode.
I ran my Grip with the Marzocchi Coil wide open and now I am starting to think that I've been doing it all wrong! The fork is long gone and I can't experiment with that any longer. The grip damper on my dirt jumper Marzocchi Z1 DJ stays fully closed.. always and it feels excellent on those big hits.
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BarryW
1 month, 1 week ago
But on the damper in the Pike, how firm is it with compression fully closed?
Especially in comparison to the Grip or GripX.
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Mynameischris
1 month, 1 week ago
What % sag ya run on the forks then?
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Vincent Edwards
1 month, 1 week ago
Thanks for taking the time to run this experiment. I’m going to have to try more compression to see how that feels in the rough stuff.
If you could grant my every wish, I’d love to see the Fox 36 Grip X in the mix. At a claimed 1980g, it’s not much heavier than the Pike. On the 2030 in the North Shore it seems appropriate.
I’d also love to get a back to back between Grip X and Grip X2. I currently have a 2023 Fox 34 Fit4 130 on 2 bikes (Epic Evo and my Single Speed)… I’m planning to upgrade those dampers at some point, and up travel to 140mm on the hardtail.
(I’m leaning towards Grip X on the EE and Grip X2 on the SS)
Wasn’t MPR the first brand to actually sell a fork with bleed ports? (On the Ribbon)
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Perry Schebel
1 month, 1 week ago
yeah, would also like to see a thorough a/b x vs x2 review (been eyeing up a fresh 36).
good read, deniz. i've also - until somewhat recently - always leaned towards full open compression (with lower pressure & lots of tokens) - thinking (with minimal empirical evidence) that more compression = harshness. alas, experiments with cranking in that blue knob (with a more linear spring) have been impressively fruitful. don't be afraid to try things would be the moral, i guess. old dog failings.
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sbh071
1 month, 1 week ago
Confused. Does the 36 come in a 140mm though? Thought it was now 150-160 only...
2030 was going to be my next bike until Ripley v5 was released. Thinking of a Mezzer fork exactly because 36 doesn't come in a 140 (and because I hear it's great, Manitou fanboy Nick above!), and a Mezzer would then mean only a new shock and link are required to change it into a Ripmo (for the odd week in the Alps / Pyrenees)...
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Nick Meulemans
1 month, 1 week ago
You won't be disappointed...and if you're mechanically inclined the travel change is a breeze
Manitou Fanboy over and out
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Andy Eunson
1 month, 1 week ago
I was thinking about this on my ride yesterday. I’m thinking with more low speed compression damping, the fork stays higher in the sweet softer spot of travel. Damper adjustment is free. And one can change the settings back. It’s good to play with stuff.
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hongeorge
1 month, 1 week ago
Interesting. Just picked up a 2030 frameset and built with what I had- a 140mm 36, in no small part influenced by reviews/articles on here. The 34 is near enough a whole pound lighter.
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sospeedy
1 month, 1 week ago
I enjoy the stout and confident feeling of a 140mm 36 I am running.
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Chad K
1 month, 1 week ago
I'm also a fan of the 140mm Fox 36 on a bike that had adequate stifness in the rear to match
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hongeorge
1 month, 1 week ago
I do remember hating a 140mm Fit4 34 I had, swapped to a 150mm Lyrik and it transformed my old trail bike - not sure if it was the damping, the shorter offset (the 34 was 51mm), the longer travel or all 3, but the bike was just so much more confidence inspiring with the Lyrik.
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Vincent Edwards
1 month, 1 week ago
How are you liking the 2030 so far?
Fox claims 1980 grams for the 2025 Grip X 36… less than 100g heavier than the Pike.
I ran a Tallboy V4 with a 140mm 36 Grip 2 for a few years, and really enjoyed that combo.
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Deniz Merdano
1 month, 1 week ago
Liking it THIS much
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Lynx .
1 month, 1 week ago
Yo Deniz, mentioning this again, but your link to the other article isn't good, instead of opening another tab, it just takes you to the page, leaving this article. You guys do it all the time, annoying AF when I need to be right clicking to open in a new tab when all it takes is a couple key strokes when writing the HTML.
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Deniz Merdano
1 month, 1 week ago
Note taken, I will look into changing the linking procedure. But I think Google likes the way it is right now. It may help us stay higher up in the SEO rankings.
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Sam James
1 month, 1 week ago
Suspension testing is such a tricky thing to do, it's very subjective and all based on feel. You're not alone in feeling some imposter syndrome here.
I find that too much compression really fatigues my arms/hands a lot faster - I discovered this recently as I think somebody had fiddled with the compression settings on my Pike, winding them all the way closed... I typically run them a few clicks from open with a higher pressure than recommended.
FYI on the last couple days of BCBR I opened all my compression settings up because my hands were so tired, haha.
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Kos
1 month, 1 week ago
Awesome sauce, Deniz, thanks for the comparo!
Next up: Can anybody tell the performance upgrade from Grip X to Grip X2 dampers?
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Abies
1 month, 1 week ago
I’ve read in a few places that slightly reduced air pressure combined with fast rebound and lots of compression damping will often result in the fastest, most controlled suspension, so I took this approach on my Charger 3 Lyrik and it’s been revelatory. I still have enough volume spacers that it’s very progressive and the last 10 percent of the travel only gets used on the biggest hit situations I find myself in. That said I’ve struggled to make this approach work for the shock and keep ending up back somewhere more middle of the road - especially since it seems to increase pedal bob due to the fast rebound.
Love articles like this with real world trials using different approaches!
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Perry Schebel
1 month, 1 week ago
recently heard a discussion w/ a moto suspension guru suggesting similar - ie, relying more heavily on the compression circuit to provide support & absorb the impact energy, so you're more aggressively slowing down the shaft speed & can get away with a lighter, less progressive spring (not requiring as much a ramp to prevent bottoming), and less rebound (since you've got less stored energy to dissipate), so the fork can respond to subsequent hits more rapidly. or something like that (i'm no expert, may not be understanding accurately). seems to have some merit, though?
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Deniz Merdano
1 month, 1 week ago
THIS! exactly my thoughts put into right words.
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Noah Sears
1 month, 1 week ago
@Deniz, you should try an MRP Lift damper in either of these forks. Happy to send one. :)
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Deniz Merdano
1 month, 1 week ago
Lets do it! Slide into my emails!
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Lynx .
1 month, 1 week ago
Deniz, first up, like to see back to back comparisons, think it really helps the reviewer and reader in better understanding the differences. When I started reading this piece I was like, "Damn, that thing must pogo about the place like a jack rabbit", zero compression/dampening :-O Glad you got to do the test and realise why there is actually dampening, especially as a lighter rider, I think you get pushed around more/easier than a heavier rider.
Honestly haven't read anything negative about either of these new dampers, would love if companies like these made they backward compatible more than just last years model, but then they couldn't sell as many new forks, right :-\
As to looks, I like the more angular arch on the Pike, but over 1/3 lb lighter for the F34 is a meaningful thing, especially as you seemed to note when wanting to get the front end up.
Good idea to just ride each fork for 5 runs and then switch - I wouldn't have been as worried about loosing a small part as rushing to do the swap after each run and over torqueing and maybe stripping a bolt.
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XXX_er
1 month, 1 week ago
" How do you set your suspension up? "
On a 3 yr old ZEB (older) at 170lbs I was only using about 5 " of travel with SC's recommended settings so I was able to drop air pressure quite a bit to use more of the travel, off the top of my head I don't remember how many clicks or anything, I really like how ZEB has support thru the mid stroke
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DBone57
1 month, 1 week ago
When you say you added compression, was it LSC or HSC or both?
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Deniz Merdano
1 month, 1 week ago
I added both in every change.
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