outlier mtb void and pendulum pedals
First Impressions Review

Outlier MTB Pedals

Photos Deniz Merdano - Unless noted
Reading time

As soon as I got wind of Outlier's MTB pedals I was very keen to try them. The design is both novel and creative, and they look interesting as well. And, while I've gotten to a very good place with my flat shoe and pedal combos, there is always room for improvement

Despite my eagerness, I was skeptical when I first I held these pedals in my hands because of my personal preferences. Firstly, I always choose the smaller platform when pedals come in two sizes because I like to be able to flex my foot over the platform. For similar reasons, I haven't been keen on concave platforms. When I descend I slide my foot forward a little so the ball of my foot is ahead of the spindle, which leaves a concave part of my foot matching with a concave pedal, decreasing contact pressure. Both models of pedal from Outlier are quite large and they are infinitely concave.

Innovation has been moving at a brisk pace in mountain biking for over fifteen years. You can probably track it back to when 29ers began to take hold in the early 2010s. Ever since that time, it's been a recurring nightmare of changing standards; axles, wheel sizes, bar diameters, bottom bracket standards, tire sizes, derailleur hangers, and frames now that UDH is here. This probably explains the backlash against new and innovative products we've seen, particularly on social media, for some time. And the armchair engineers were out in force for this one, quick to explain why these pedals would suck before seeing them in person or riding them.

cam mcrae santa cruz vala outlier pedals 11

The Outlier Void on the left and Pendulum right. I brought both pedals along for a ride and switched them half way through to get an immediate impression of the difference in feel.

Where Did These Come From?

Originally the idea for this design wasn't about omitting the centre section of the pedal, it was about lowering the centre of gravity. Because the 'spindle' doesn't extend out to the edge of the pedal, the platform can be offset, meaning your foot will be lower for a given crank length in every position. This has an advantage beyond what is possible for short cranks because your feet are also lower when your cranks are level, in descending position. In theory, lower is better for descending because this lowers the centre of gravity of your entire system by shifting the heaviest part (you) down 12 millimetres compared to most conventional pedals.

You may be asking how this can work when you need to be able to use both sides of a pedal. That's not the case here because the Pendulums are appropriately weighted and the bearings spin freely enough that, in most situations, your pedals will return to pin side up. More on this below.

outlier mtb void and pendulum pedals

Both pedals look unusual but people tend to only notice the hole in the Pendulums and not the offset axle.

A nice thing about the single-sided element of these pedals is that your pins should theoretically never be subjected to getting pounded and destroyed when you choose the wrong line through a rock garden. You will however have a little less clearance at the bottom of your stroke when you are pedalling up through that same rock garden.

Another advantage to this design is that, as you push into the pedal, or your foot slides forward, the platform's placement below the axle makes it resist rotation. If you imagine a pedal that was two inches thick, it would be very prone to rotation, making slipping a pedal an every-ride feature. These have the opposite effect.

Once they settled on the design with a ring rather than a more complete platform like most pedals have, they decided to make one with the offset design and a second pedal that is double sided.

outlier mtb void and pendulum pedals

The two pedal models side by side (axles removed). The Pendulum on the left is single sided. The wider part of the platform is the front. The Void, on the right, is a more conventional double-sided pedal. Photo - Cam McRae

Void and Pendulum

Outlier designed and machined two pedals out of the gate. One has the axle aligned with the midline of the pedal vertically like most pedals and it has pins on both sides. It's also symmetrical. The Pendulum is a little more interesting because of the offset platform which sits 6mm below the axle. This lowers your centre of gravity, makes the pedals more stable, and allows for pins to be placed on one side only because the pedal is self righting. Obviously these are the more interesting of the two pedals.

Both sets of pedals house two oversized bearings next to the crank and use 3mm bottom loading pins. The Voids use 6902 bearings while the Pendulums use 7902, likely because the self righting feature requires extremely low friction. The platforms are machined out of 7075 aluminum in Calgary and the axles are CNC'd there as well.

outlier mtb void and pendulum pedals

Pendulums on the left/upper and Voids on the right/lower. Photo - Cam McRae

Things You Should Know (from Outlier)

  • We recommend these pedals for shoes size 7 US men's, 8.5 US women’s, 40 EU, 7 UK and larger
  • Please torque our pedals to 30-35NM. Do not overtorque
  • Certain cranks and crank boot combinations may require a pedal washer
  • These pedals are designed for rider weights up to 110kg or 250lbs
  • We offer a 2 year warranty on bodies, axles and spacers.

Pendulum Only

  • Some customers may find themselves lowering their dropper posts ~12mm to accomodate for the lower ride height
  • Some riders enjoy these pedals with shorter crank arms

outlier mtb void and pendulum pedals

A disassembled Void. The axles and spacers are interchangeable between the pedals but the bearings are slightly different. Photo - Cam McRae

Outlier Void Specs

  • Platform Size: 115mm long and 115mm wide (100mm end of axle to outside edge)
  • Thickness: 9.85mm
  • Material: 7075 Aluminum
  • Pins: 18 per pedal (9 per side), M4 with tapered head, protrude 5.71mm, 4 extra pins and spacers provided
  • Bearings: Oil filled 6902
  • Colors: Black // Raw (Clear Anodized)
  • Weight: 458g per set
outlier mtb void and pendulum pedals

Here's a look at the Pendulum with the axle and spacer removed. These parts can be pulled out easily when the pedals are off the bike. You can clearly see that the platform sits below the axle. Photo - Cam McRae

Outlier Pendulum Specs

  • Platform Size: 120mm long and 115mm wide (100mm end of axle to outside edge)
  • Thickness: 7-14mm
  • Platform Height: -12mm from centre of the axle
  • Material: 7075 Aluminum
  • Pins: 9 per pedal, M3, protrude 5.0, 4 extra pins provided
  • Bearings: 7902
  • Colors: Black // Raw (Clear Anodized)
  • Weight: 414g per pair
outlier mtb void and pendulum pedals

Here's the bottom of the Pendulum. The platform gets thinner as you move away from the axle, improving clearance, and the leading edge is beveled. Photo - Cam McRae

The Company

Outlier is a small Calgary-based company owned by Peter Cowling and Cameron Belisle O’Donnell. The two met at The Inside Line bike shop (which Cam owns) and became riding buddies. The pedal was Peter's idea and Cam liked it right away and the two got to work. They have since been joined by engineer Quinn Hepburn.

The first run of pedals was small and after distributing to testers they were left with 40 to sell. And sell they did - in about an hour. The next batch is in production now and is expected in the summer. There are some changes to be made to the second batch which are outlined below.

outlier mtb void and pendulum pedals

The Pendulums are able to be wider at the front because they are one-sided.

The Outlier Origin Story in Cameron Belisle O'Donnell's Words

"So the hole in the middle was just kind of like an experiment. The initial thought was, let's make a pedal with a lower centre of gravity because that's compelling as an exploration of geometry and helps you with cornering. So it was a curiosity of ours. And we had some prototypes that didn't have holes in the middle, but there's some issues, depending on the depth, where the bearing can exit the pedal. So it just came up almost like a napkin sketch of 'what if there was nothing in the middle' you know. My collaborator, Peter Cowling is a very open thinker and he has these creative ideas."

outlier mtb void and pendulum pedals

The wedged shape of the Pendulum is visible in this shot. This provides a little more clearance as you move away from the crank. Photo - Cam McRae

On The Trail

Well, the early returns are in and, despite the social media experts doubts, these pedals do not suck at all. They have some quirks, especially the one-sided Pendulums with their offset axle but I have been very pleased overall.

I decided to ride the Voids first. Rather than tackling two radical changes at once, I thought it made more sense to deal with just the vacant centre portion and then move on to the Pendulums. At first I wasn't perfectly comfortable with the wider Q-factor, necessitated by the two bearings between the pedal and the crank. I have since gotten used to it but I find it's easier to angle your legs independently for corners when your feet are placed closer together. I also felt a little bow-legged while pedalling but that sensation has passed as well.

cam mcrae santa cruz vala outlier pedals 8

Riding Outlier Pedals before the snows came and at the end of a long and beautiful dry spell.

It was cold on my first ride and I wore my Northwave Multicross GTX flat shoes. These have stiff soles but the grip is excellent. They felt okay on the Voids but not great. I slipped a pedal a couple times while climbing, which wasn't unusual for a cold night ride, and I didn't feel like I could dig in to the pedals as well as I would have liked. For my second ride, still on the Voids, I wore a pair of Crankbrothers Stamp Boa shoes. These are my preferred shoes for pedals with 3mm pins because I like to be able to reposition without sitting down. All of a sudden the pedals felt great. My foot felt cradled in space in the middle of the pedal and incredibly secure. Despite the high grip, I could easily recompose my foot when required. That didn't happen often though because I also found it easier to position my foot with the Voids to start out. I haven't yet figured out why that is but it's an excellent upgrade.

I hadn't determined that the Northwaves were less than optimal when I first rode the Pendulums so they were also a little disappointing at first. I couldn't say I noticed the lower centre of gravity but it's very clear you are on a different sort of pedal because of the way your foot is supported. It's very difficult to roll your foot forward off the pedal, unlike pedals with a conventional axle. It felt pretty good but something wasn't quite right.

outlier mtb void and pendulum pedals

A surprise discovery is that Outliers are the best snow pedals ever. It's impossible to get snow stuck on them and any that is on your shoe is immediately displaced when you stomp down. Photo - Cam McRae

Swapping Pedals

I brought both pairs of pedals on a ride, and as Deniz was shooting photos, I swapped them midway through. I was wearing the Stamp BOAs and while I felt good on the Pendulums, I found the grip to be more secure and my perch more planted on the Voids. I have been trying to determine if this relates to the size of my foot, my descending placement which is slid forward a little, or the shape difference between the two platforms. Again, the Pendulums didn't feel bad, but the Voids felt as secure as any flat pedal interface I've used.

outlier mtb void and pendulum pedals

Installation is no more difficult than a regular pedal but you'll need to put pressure on the back of the axle so your tool doesn't push it through the bearings. Everything is kept in place with the pressure of the tightened axle.

Minor Mishaps

I had a couple of small issues while riding these holey pedals. I once started off with my left foot on the wrong side of a Pendulum. I just had to lift up and the pedal righted itself so it was no hassle. Surprisingly, the grip wasn't bad at all on the wrong side because of the gaping hole in the middle. I also had a stick end up in the aforementioned hole on a climb. This must have happened when I was setting off as well or there wouldn't have been anywhere for the stick to go. This didn't cause any problems at all - again I just lifted my foot - but it's worth mentioning. I would also say that I had pedal strikes with both sets that felt a little different than the same impact with a conventional pedal, as though it caught a little more forcefully. It wasn't enough to prevent me from carrying on but it was noticeable. However, I also had a couple of pedal strikes that glanced off more smoothly than usual while riding the Pendulums before I was used to the lower clearance.

outlier mtb void and pendulum pedals

My size 11 Crankbrothers Stamp BOA shoes were just the ticket for Outlier pedals.

Updates

Cameron Belisle O'Donnell sent me a list of updates the next batch of pedals will get, based on what they have learned from the first batch. Here they are in his words.

  1. We’re moving to custom sealed, oil-filled, angular contact bearings in both Voids and Pendulums that should offer better protection against the elements, have very little stiction and offer a more consistent result. 
  2. We’ll have new pins in Pendulum and Void in February, which will be threaded to the tip much like the Chromag Dagga pins but shorter and with a chamfered head. They’ll offer even more grip than the current pins and be colour matched.
  3. We’re tweaking the weight balance on the Pendulums so that they self-rite a little easier. They’ll gain about 20g a pedal, with that single objective in mind.
  4. The body on the Voids will get an aesthetic enhancement over the coming months. We're considering some minor changes like a subtle ramp on the lower leading edge of the pedal to help with rock strikes. 
outlier mtb void and pendulum pedals

While not offset, the Voids are nice and thin for solid ground clearance.

Some Findings

My skepticism about the size of the platforms and the concavity was completely unfounded. The Voids in particular keep me as securely fastened as any pedal and shoe combo I have tried, with a slightly less grippy sole than I use with 4mm pins. Despite this, I find it easier to recompose my foot if I need to and easier to find the sweet spot to begin with. It seems that it's possible to catch your pedal on something in a different way than you might with a conventional pedal, but head on strikes should be less consequential than most pedals because the Voids are very thin and the Pendulums have a smooth and highly chamfered leading edge.

I've got more work to do to figure out why I haven't been as comfortable on the Pendulums and then see if I can get them to feel as good as, or better than, the Voids. I also want to put more time on both of them to see how they hold up to a North Shore winter so I'll be following up with another article in a couple of months.

While I wouldn't suggest tossing out your current favourites, if you are curious about these unique and well-engineered flats, I'd encourage you to give them a shot. At 300 CAD, they aren't cheap, and for our southern neighbours they may soon be subject to 75 Canuck bucks in Tariffs, but thus far I have every reason to believe these will be durable over the long run.

Outlier MTB

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Comments

Bikeryder85
+9 Cr4w Sick-Mui-Mui Cam McRae roil ohio Skooks OutlierMTB vunugu lennskii

I have been watching these with interest, great write up!

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mtmc99
+5 Cam McRae atwork123 ohio OutlierMTB lennskii

Interested to see the long term reviews on these. The only previously available impression were from YouTube and reviews there always have to be taken with a grain of salt.

Interesting concept for sure so good on them for trying something different.

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craw
+4 ohio OutlierMTB Kristian Øvrum lennskii

The Loam Ranger does an interesting take. The idea of the pedals allowing you to be below the axle means your heels will rock down rather than your feet feeling like you're getting launched forward is very compelling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubmicIdu_no

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cam@nsmb.com
+5 Cr4w Curveball Kristian Øvrum lennskii Shmarv

I may have said that as well. ;) But I agree. 

He does a good job of things.

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craw
+1 Kristian Øvrum

I was nice to hear you confirm it! Makes it easier to do the mental gymnastics to justify $300 pedals and new shoes.

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4Runner1
+4 Cam McRae ohio Pete Roggeman Skooks

I wish this small, Canadian company success! 

That said, I’ll be waiting for future products as metal pedals don’t do it for me. 

Can’t wait to see what else they come up with!

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OutlierMTB
+2 4Runner1 Kristian Øvrum

Thanks for the kind words!

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sanesh-iyer
+4 ohio Skooks Kristian Øvrum lennskii

Based on the planned updates, I'm glad I didn't buy in the first round. But I must say, this is the first MTB product release I've properly cared about since Hydraulic Bottom out on shocks. I will be an owner. 

Now if ride concepts or someone else made shoes with adjustable stiffness insoles...

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xy9ine
+4 Skooks OutlierMTB DancingWithMyself Metacomet

insole tuning is a neat idea. offer a few options from soft plastic to stiff carbon. lib-tech / bent metal kinda does (or did) that with variable stiffness binding base plates.

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Flatted-again
+2 justwan naride DancingWithMyself

Altra has a few under insole options for their running shoes- shouldn’t be too hard to find some materials and cut out shapes. (https://www.altrarunning.com/en-us/gear-accessories/stoneguard/AL0A85N9.html))

Another idea is removable stringers through the outer sole

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justwan-naride
0

@Flatted-again

No idea this existed, it could be usefull for aleviating hot spots when riding clipless on long days. Thanks!

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sanesh-iyer
0

Honestly I don't think any of the trail running options would provide enough stiffness in a cycling shoe, or range. I'm thinking. Stringers are a good idea though. I actually thing I could do this pretty easily with a pair of soft SPD shoes (Shimano GR series) and a quick mcmaster Carr order. Project for the summer. 

Regarding hot spots on clip in shoes, my experience is that's typically a symptom of the sole being bagged out and matching the wrong shoe/pedal combo. If you want something stiff as nails and durable with no hotspots unfortunately it gets spendy to get something with a UD Carbon sole (Shimano Rx800 or similar).

Gravity oriented shoes pair well with the commensurate pedals (i.e. Shimano Saint). They have great ride feel and control, but unfortunately they are consumable items (they get flexier and flexier over time, until the point hotspots develop. I typically find this is the first thing that wears out, especially on Shimano Torbal shoes). I get 12-24 months out of a pair of "Gravity" spds. This is part of why I switched back to flats for rides under 4h (shoes last way longer).

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OutlierMTB
+10 Andy Eunson Kristian Øvrum Suns_PSD Ask Petersen Pete Roggeman Skooks Sanesh Iyer DancingWithMyself lennskii Shmarv

We will be offering the updated bearings and pins to all of the early adopters. Our intention with all updates is to offer our customers the best product we can, even at the expense of some awkwardly timed updates haha.

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sanesh-iyer
+1 lennskii

Heck yeah. Love to hear it.

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justwan-naride
+1 Sanesh Iyer

@Sanesh Iyer 

Adjustable stiffness shoes.... no one is doing this for biking, but Nnormal (trail running company) is doing this with their latest shoe, the Kboix. The midsoles are removable and there are three different options, two of which are included at purchase. I can see the market for runners as terrain and length of activity dictate shoe characteristics, not sure if there's a need for it in mtb.

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craw
+3 Cam McRae ohio OutlierMTB

These have got me considering a return to flats.

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GlazedHam
+3 Cam McRae Pete Roggeman mtnfriend

I have proven to myself time and time again that I can ride any flat pedal that any reasonable person would make, but I pre-ordered a set of Pendulums from the second batch to just to verify.

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lazybum
+2 Andy Eunson OutlierMTB

I wish the Pendulums were symmetrical like the Voids, so that the lateral rear pin is more outwards. 

Also, I imagine these might mesh better with narrower Q-factor cranks.

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OutlierMTB
+6 lazybum Kristian Øvrum justwan naride Pete Roggeman Skooks lennskii

Hi Lazybum, thanks for the comment. We chose to taper the rear outboard side of the pedal  to improve ground clearance while the bike is leaned and the rider's heels are down. Some of us tend to ride a bit duck footed with open knees so that we can angulate the bike, and we felt this shape complemented that stance. The one-sided concept really gave us a lot of freedom when it comes to platform design, it's been an interesting process to say the least

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lazybum
0

Gotcha, appreciate the reply. I'm a TMAC guy and have my knees turned inwards. But maybe I'll check out the Voids.

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mtnfriend
0

I’m also a TMAC guy, but these are intriguing. Huge props for trying something new & manufacturing in Calgary!

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andy-eunson
+2 Morgan Heater Skooks

Interesting concept to be sure. I don’t see why these pedals would have substantially different grip than a full body pedal. My feet are pretty small at 39 or 40 so maybe my concepts of grip are different from a person with big feet? 

The big question is bearing life when all of a riders weight is cantilevered off the short axle. Shimano’s Dyna Drive road pedal system from the early 80s purportedly suffered early bearing failure but they weren’t a common thing when I worked in a bike shop then so I can’t confirm that with actual experience.

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cam@nsmb.com
+4 ohio OutlierMTB Andy Eunson Kristian Øvrum

I have been thinking about the grip equation. Part of it certainly has to do with the hole that allows you to sink in a little (and rewards a heels down stance) but the fact that you are in direct contact with a smaller number of pins means you exert more pressure per pin. More pins and more surface area doesn't ncessarily mean more friction.

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BarryW
0

"(and rewards a heels down stance)"

Can you elaborate? I understand why heels down, but how do you feel the open center influences that? 

Cool pedals though!

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cam@nsmb.com
0

I'm not quite sure you to explain it but the sensation is as though, with your heels low, the meat of your foot sinks into the hole in the centre and gives the front of your foot a barrier that prevents you from sliding forward.  It feels like it makes the cradle more effective. Does that make sense?

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lookseasyfromhere
0

Does the penultimate pic in this article (captioned "My size 11 Crankbrothers...") pretty well represent where your feet are positioned on the pedal when riding?

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cam@nsmb.com
+1 lookseasyfromhere

I believe so. That was my goal with placement for the photo but I've never seen that view before so it seems a little strange.

bishopsmike
+2 4Runner1 Allan Maxwell

These are definitely clip-less

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flattire2
+2 Skooks Cr4w

I'm sure brand new pedals have perfect bearings that allow the pedal to easily self-right. How frictionless will the bearings be a year from now? Especially since the entire pedal cantilevers a single bearing?  That will be one unhappy bearing.

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cam@nsmb.com
+1 Pete Roggeman

This is likely one of the factors that has made them swap the bearings out for the new production run. I believe Cam from Outlier is going to respond to this but we talked a lot about bearings when I interviewed him and they have done a very deep dive to find the best solution for their application.

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OutlierMTB
+5 Kristian Øvrum Suns_PSD Skooks dhr999 mtnfriend

That's a valid concern, and bearing longevity / strength has been a concern since day one! There may be a slight misunderstanding, our pedals feature two fairly large bearings each, with a spacer between them and they're loaded by the axle and shielded on both sides. They resist moment loads surprisingly well, and had no problems in ISO testing.

Over the past couple months, we've been developing a custom oil filled angular contact bearing for both pedal models to better hold up to the elements while reducing stiction. The updated bearings, and pins will be offered free of charge to all early adopters.

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wishiwereriding
+2 Cr4w Cam McRae

I ordered the Pendulums when Andrew Major first talked about them. The hard part is waiting what seem like a VERY long time without any feedback or communication from the company.

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OutlierMTB
+3 Kristian Øvrum mtnfriend DancingWithMyself

I hear you loud and clear John! Our posted ETAs and pre-orders are quite a ways out unfortunately. We'll try to do a better job communicating this sort of thing. If you ever have any question or concern hit us up on instagram or by email.

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MeestahChow
+1 Kristian Øvrum

With the Pendulums, did you notice any burnishing of the axle cap from your shoes? I wonder if the wider Q-factor and lack of inboard support would cause your foot to roll into the end of the spindle.

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cam@nsmb.com
0 Allan Maxwell Kristian Øvrum

I didn't notice the smooth end of the axle at all while riding either set of pedals and there are no noticeable marks on them. I'm not sure what you mean by "lack of inboard support." Do you mean because you aren't able to rest your foot on the crank? I didn't notice and lack of support at all or any issue in this area.

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MeestahChow
+1 Kristian Øvrum

By inboard support I mean that there is no surface for your inner foot to stand on. The pedal is only front, back and outside. It's like bottomless concavity.

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cam@nsmb.com
+1 MeestahChow

Actually the inside of your foot feels well supported by the ring structure of the pedal fore and aft. This isn't an issue at all in my experience. I can see how you would come to that conclusion looking at the silhouette of the pedal though. In practice my entire foot feels well supported. 

This could be an issue if you were wearing old school thin flip flops or if you have tiny feet I guess?

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Wapti
+1 Cam McRae

I've already got a pair of Pendulums on order. We'll see if I break them.

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Wapti
+1 mtnfriend

To slightly expand, The Inside Line is my LBS and I'm always happy to support local.

I also like strange new things

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Flatted-again
0

I bet it’s not actually an issue, but I kinda want to see the upper part of the bearing part of the pendulum to be angled more- something that helps the foot slide toward the pedal.

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cam@nsmb.com
0

Toward the pedal or toward the crank?  I’m not sure how you could angle the bearing (it’s not angled at all now) without increasing the Q factor. If you mean the aluminum that houses the bearing, it doesn’t come into play at all.  My foot sits right against the smooth end of the axle. Maybe I’m misunderstanding you though?

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Flatted-again
0 Skooks Kristian Øvrum

My mistake! I was thinking about the bulge around the bearing next to the crank arm. A bit more material at the top to angle it towards the pedal so an errant foot placement would be helped to slide towards the pedal rather than balance on top. Again, probably not a big deal!

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cam@nsmb.com
+1 Flatted-again

Gotcha. Makes sense. 

That may be of some consequence for the Voids, but the height of the bearing enclosure in relation to the platform on the Pendulums is tall enough that it wouldn’t be a problem.

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OutlierMTB
+1 Kristian Øvrum

Thanks for the comment, I had similar thoughts in the development process. In the end we picked a bit of a minimalist approach when it comes to material in this area. As it stands, there's just not a lot of extra material in general. Depending on your foot / shoe size and shape, the arch of your foot should align with the bearing bulge, but I can see this being an issue for smaller feet.

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XXX_er
0

interesting and its a very smart thing buddy IS mentioning canadian cuz no body is buying anything from America

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cam@nsmb.com
+1 Tjaard Breeuwer

Well, more of our audience is from the US than Canada so there's that. We'll have to wait and see what happens in a month.

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XXX_er
-5 mtnfriend Kristian Øvrum ZigaK DancingWithMyself Hardlylikely

OK that would explain the e-bike hate ^^  the constant parade of acoustic/ amish bikers telling me its not mountain biking unless I  suffer

I just want to read an artical and not have to  figure out new ways to troll them

I am not sure why you bother to try reasoning with them, maybe a slow writing day ?

I wouldn't have gone down there unless I had an amish/ acoustic bike and I really wouldn't go down there since trump cuz the place is totaly  wanked up

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karakoram
0

Do we need a new pedal thread standard? Seems like bearing size is limited and the small thread of pedal is a factor here.

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OutlierMTB
+3 bishopsmike Kristian Øvrum Suns_PSD

Hey Ryan, I'd hate to introduce a new standard to the world haha.  Thanks for your comment. Picking bearings was a bit of a balancing act of making the pair burly and broad enough to resist moment loads while being a small enough package to interfere as little as possible with the platform. We settled on using two 15 x 28 x 7 mm bearings in each pedal, spaced 3mm apart. We actually had the freedom to use massive headset sized bearings if we wanted, but from a packaging and functional perspective, it simply didn't make sense and would potentially increase stiction. We're always down to hear ideas, keep em coming!

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cam@nsmb.com
0

This has been done before with Flypaper pedals and some FSA cranks. The bearings were partially housed within the crank arm to improve Q-factor. I don't think the bearings are any bigger than the ones Outlier is using though. 

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OutlierMTB
+3 Cam McRae Kristian Øvrum Suns_PSD

Flypaper pedals are super interesting... It has occurred to us that putting bearings in the crank arm would be an effective way to reduce q-factor and eliminate the bearing bulge  ;)

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andy-eunson
+1 Kristian Øvrum

That’s similar to the Shimano Dyna Drive road system from early 80s. Probably one of the things that made that system fade away. You needed their cranks which had a large threaded hole which enclosed the bearing. There were some riders that loved the feel of the dropped pedals. Alexi Grewal won the Olympic road race on them. He bought a small supply of the cranks and pedals when they were discontinued.

https://midlifecycling.blogspot.com/2016/04/more-aerodynamic-more-ergonomic-maybe.html

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Flatted-again
0

Ha! We could have threaded and pressfit crank arms too!

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Bikes
0

Neat.  

A bar parallel to the main bike axis may eliminate and hard hang-ups on strikes, but the “in” feeling of the low pendulum works against it for the reasons on strikes for the same they are less prone to rotation as stated in the article.

Or a skid plate….

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Suns_PSD
0

I ordered a set and look forward to receiving the new updated Pendulum product. No hurry though! I bought them the moment I saw the Loam Ranger review as I had been envisioning the exact same product for years.

I'd LOVE to see an SPD version of the Pendulum, but it would be hard to get them to right said with the weight of the SPD mechanism up high.

Lastly, the idea of the bearings in the cranks seems really smart, but wholly heck that would be a project. I wonder if you could partner with someone that modifies some standard Al (short!) cranks or even just custom machines cranks for your pedals, for clients that want to narrow their Q factor? Maybe RaceFace turbine 175s could be machined to be like 155s, by cutting off the ends and adding in bearings further down, for example? I also know there is some custom crank manufacturers (North Shore Billet?) in Canada, that maybe could get in on the project.

It seems to me that what you feel for crank size, is the length from BB to the pedal in the lowest position and so I suspect that my 165 cranks will feel like 175+ cranks with the Pendulums. That's the only thing that gives me pause.

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OutlierMTB
+5 Suns_PSD ZigaK Kristian Øvrum MeestahChow lennskii

Thanks for your support suns_PDS! 

I assure you, pendulums don't make your crank feel longer, just lower much like running your BB flip-chip in low position. The radius of the circle is the same. We did what we could to reduce the downsides of being closer to the ground, namely optimizing the shape to skid, not having pins pointing downwards, making it as thins as possible and reducing the rear outboard edge to reduce rock strikes when leaned over with heels down.

We love what NSB are up to, have been running some 155 talon cranks on the DH bike...

I should mention, the dropped SPD concept is on our radar ;) and we have the ability to make crank arms ;)

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zigak
0

I'm a spd guy, but ever since I read a review of the pendulum at the Andrew Mayor's site I'm thinking about going to flats. But spd pendulums? With standard Q factor? Sign me up!

Although if the pedals are 300, I wonder how much the cranks will be? :s

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OutlierMTB
+1 MeestahChow

Interestingly I think it would be easier for us to make a competitively priced CNCed crank, than a CNCed pedal like the void or pendulum. Our design simply uses a much larger block of billet and more machine time than other pedal designs. We're exploring other more cost effective methods of producing our pedals. Stay tuned!

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zigak
0

I'm guessing larger block is cents, and machine time is €s added to the cost.

Out of curiosity, do you have an approximate number, where it becomes cheaper to cast the product?

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OutlierMTB
0

Hi ZigaK, thanks for commenting. We wouldn't have the part cast because the process of melting the aluminum would render our pedal bodies weaker due to the alignment of the . Forging then CNCing would be our preferred method, it would actually make the pedal stronger than just cutting it out of a block of billet.

It's really hard to answer your question regarding costs, mostly because location makes such a huge difference. Forging then machining in Canada is considerably more expensive than Asia. Generally speaking though, if you're looking for batches of 1000+ pedals, forging then machining is probably the way to go.

You may be surprised by how expensive our particular 7075 alluminum pedals are to produce in Canada. Due to our local economy we're competing with the oil and gas industry for machine time and more recently the threat of a trade war with the US has increased material costs. We'll adapt though, this is all part of the process...

CNCing our pedals locally has had some advantages. It's allowed us to scale responsibly, and to be more connected to the manufacturing process. We've learned a lot doing things this way!

jdespinal
0

My only question is: How is the crankflipability of these?

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cam@nsmb.com
+1 mtnfriend

The cranks flip great. ;)

While I'm not a crank flipper on purpose, I'd say go with the Voids of these two but you'd likely be better with a conventional pedal for crank flips. This might not be a situation where introducing uncertainty is ideal?

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cyclotoine
0

I ordered a set last week. I was intrigued after watching the Loam Rangers Video and reading Andrew's blog. I wanted another set of pedals anyway as I picked up a new bike to leave on the coast last fall and don't want to cart pedals back and forth, but the pendulums will go on my home bike. What is most interesting to me is how they have the potential to tweak the entire feel of the bike by lowering your center of gravity. They also increase your effective stack, which as a 191cm tall individual I find compelling and don't understand why any XL bike comes with a headtube of less than 140mm.. 160mm would be just fine and still leave the bars well below my saddle with a low rise bar at the top of the steer tube so make them longer please. If i can lower my saddle that is awesome. 

I think it would be cool to see them make cranks too, a certain bike shop in California is working on their own crank because they are short crank evangelists. RF just released a 160 turbine which is a big deal as that is an affordable crank. Would be great to see more options although not for myself being at the lanky end of the spectrum, 170 is just fine and I run 180 on the road/gravel. 

I am fine with a wide Q since I ride fat bikes 50% of the year and after the first week you don't notice it. Also, the tonton is sick and I would totally buy one if I didn't have a Pole Taiga. Looking forward to more cool stuff from Outlier/The Inside Line.

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Slinger
0

VERY interested to try these out for the resistance to my foot rolling forward. It's a big deal if you've got drop-foot and don't have any ankle control at all, likely contributed to my second back surgery...

Do you think I could claim it as disability equipment? LOL

If they're as game-changing as I hope, I guess that's reason to get an Archibald with a higher bb. Dammit!

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OutlierMTB
+1 lennskii

Hi Slinger, interesting point you bring up! We've had a few folks with disabilities reach out, and I'm curious to hear how folks with ankle issues do on them. 

As much as I love riding my own pedals, I'd hesitate to call them "game changing" (even if it is our objective haha). They do some things other pedals don't, I think NSMB's review does a good job of highlighting some of the pros and cons. We hope that folks like you will have the ability to try these out at your local shop someday...

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lennskii
0

Pre-ordered my Pendulums back in Nov for a Q2 2025 shipment. I think it's the only MTB product I've ever pre-ordered.

I'm frothing - even more so now to hear Outlier are providing Dagga style pins (threaded tapered tips, non threaded wider bases). I just hope they make their "special bearing" as an easily available spare part (which I'm sure they will based on the thoughtfulness of the updates and providing them to batch 1/2 owners retrospectively).

That pin design is are one of the most underrated MTB products. I replaced all the non-threaded pins on my OneUp Aluminium pedals with Chromag Daggas and allowed for a super thin pedal that relies on all bearings to have DMR Vault like grip).

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