Beggars Would Ride
Ouroboros
Disclaimer: It's not an intentional irony that this column is showing up the week of Rampage, when brave and exceptionally talented individuals are redefining the very edge of what is possible on a bike. The bikes they are riding are in many cases the very same bikes that punters are gently noodling down blue trails. This is kind of an amazing thing in the bike industry. There isn't really "works" equipment like you'd find on the WRC or MotoGP circuits. Any Johnny Weekender with enough coin can pretty easily purchase a spitting image replica of the bike that Semenuk uses to shred reality to pieces. Is Semenuk's bike the right one for Johnny Weekender, though? Whole lot of variables stacked into whatever that answer may be...
Great White, the turbocharged slab of echoing sheet metal (otherwise known as a Transit van) that is my sole form of automotive transport, took a nap on me as I drove to town last week, necessitating a trip to the Blue Oval Day Spa. Fortunately the damage was limited to a throttle body that had gotten confused about its role in life. And so a couple days and a few hundred dollars later, Great White was ready to come home from the stealership. The Ford dealer is about 30 miles as the crow flies from home, but there’s a long spine of ridge and valley running east to west packed with very expensive estate homes and private roads and tennis clubs and equestrian centers and other “We help keep Clint Eastwood rich” exclusivity between me and the dealership, so my route to retrieve Great White was a 65-ish mile spin.
I dragged the groad bike out from its hiding place, wiped off the dust and spiderwebs, pumped up the tires, started pedaling. As chance would have it, my route ran me through Fort Ord, home to the Sea Otter Classic. Since these are the closest trails to where I live, I’ve ridden them a ton. While it isn’t exactly the place people dream of riding, I am thankful that Fort Ord exists, and it happens be a great place to snap off a few trails on a groad bike en route to retrieving one’s car. A nice way to add some texture to the ride, if you will. Zipping through the oaks, tires slipping and knifing on the hardpack to sand transitions, the trails almost felt spicy for a change. Drop bars, steep angles, skinny tires tend to have that effect. I made a mental note to bring the groad bike here more often, add some variety to the regular diet, so to speak.
Drop bar, skinny tire, tight wheelbase rip-able singletrack, no gnar near or far...
Fort Ord spat me out onto Reservation Road, and as I churned along next to the strawberry fields a stream of cars rolled past on my left, heading in the same direction as I was. On the backs and roofs of almost every car was a bike, or two, or three. Nice bikes. Transition Patrols, Yeti SB150s, Santa Cruz Hightowers, Specialized Stumpy Evos and Enduros. Expensive, high-spec, long travel, “we mean business” kind of bikes. In amongst the caravan of passing cars, rear racks sagging beneath their burdens, there was also a solid representation of the current, state of the art, long travel ebike species. They all wore the same light patina of dust as my groad bike, since they were all returning from a morning romp in Fort Ord.
This got me to thinking…
A good number of years ago, my friend Willie and I were in Moab and we decided to take some acid and ride Porcupine Rim from town on our singlespeeds. As you do, when in Rome, and all that. Grinding our way up Sand Flats Road toward where LPS connects with Porcupine Rim, we were passed by some vans and buses. The vans and buses were pulling trailers festooned with bikes. By the time we got to where the vans and buses were disgorging their several dozen passengers we were tripping pretty hard so decided the most prudent course of action was to quietly roll on through them and keep going. Being hyper aware of everything in the entire universe at that moment, I noticed that almost all the riders were sporting some sort of body armour, many had full-face helmets, and maybe a third of the bikes were running dual crown forks.
Willie and I stopped at the “Powerbar Overlook” or whatever it’s called; that place where a Powerbar ad was shot a million years ago and where there’s a pretty massive cliff and a spectacular view of Castle Valley stretching below. We cowered beneath a stunted Juniper to hide from the already blistering heat, for 17 minutes (yes, 17 minutes. Hyper aware of everything in the universe, remember, including time, even though we all know that time is a meaningless construct that we employ to fixate on our own mortality, right? Right), during which time several of the armor clad long travel mountain bikers clattered their way down the ledgy rocks to the view point. Realizing that we might be forced into conversations about base jumping or the shape of the cosmos, we decided it best to get riding again. Only now, there were pockets of mountain bikers spread out along the trail for the next few miles.
I remember at one point dropping down some steppy rocks into a sand wash with a similarly ledgy/steppy climb up the exit, sort of a mini-staircase that you needed to hop/lung up since all your momentum got killed in the sand. There were two guys pushing their downhill bikes through the sand, full face helmets raised up on their heads, rivulets of sweat streaking their faces as they boiled beneath their armored carapaces. As we slipped past them and up out of the wash, one of them drawled to the other; “How much do you reckon them little bikes weigh?”
Yeah, that spot right there. "Dude, it'd be so cool to base jump off this!" "Yeah bro, totally. We should do that." Just out of shot, cowering under that juniper on the left there, are two hallucinating singlespeeders. They may be tripping balls, but even they think that base jumping off this cliff sounds like a very bad idea...
At the time an answer eluded me. I was grappling with a pair of handlebars that were bending comically and trying to turn into snakes in my hands, and my Marzocchi Z3 fork was hyper-extended, like the stanchions had popped their retainers and were trying to pull out of the lowers. Except they weren’t, and I was just hallucinating a bit. A while later, after whipping through another conga line of downhillers pushing their bikes through some rocky sand, Willie observed that those bikes must be pretty hard to ride if everyone had to push them like that. I think this was the first time I became conscious of the concept of overbiking.
Overbiking, for lack of any formalized definition, is the act of riding far more bike than is needed for the terrain or the occasion. Given the local focus and natural slant of this website, overbiking isn’t something that I think really applies to the native nsmb.com environment. The equipment that is necessary for survival on the Shore also carries across to most of the Sea-To-Sky gnarl, and meshes well with bike park needs, so it makes sense up there. But down here, between the ocean and the Ford dealership in Salinas, opportunities to stretch the legs of that kind of bike are few and far between. It’s a couple hours to the side of Santa Cruz where people are riding gnarlier trails that technically do not exist. It’s a few more hours to the chunky granite of the Sierra, where there are big enough rocks and big enough lines to make good use of 160mm travel and DoubleDown casings. But here they are, labouring painfully around Fort Ord, albeit with massive traction and in plush comfort.
Maybe, I thought to myself as my tires hummed along cracked pavement, these people can only afford one bike, and they want to be prepared for when they get the chance to roam off-leash in the big country. But given the spec of the bikes, and the price tags of the cars hauling them, I doubt that was the case. They had chosen these bikes for a reason, but it is highly unlikely that the trails of Fort Ord were what motivated their purchasing decisions. They bought into an aspirational idea. They may not have been going big on Saturday morning in Fort Ord, but one day, somewhere, they intend to justify that bike. In the meantime, they get to indulge in something akin to going jogging with ankle weights. No harm in that. Character building, as my dad used to call it. And face it, underbiking just isn’t market-sexy. The same way that almost everyone puts bigger tires on their trucks, MORE is always more appealing than LESS, when it comes to our lizard brain consumerism.
A while later, after whipping through another conga line of downhillers pushing their bikes through some rocky sand, Willie observed that those bikes must be pretty hard to ride if everyone had to push them like that. I think this was the first time I became conscious of the concept of overbiking.
Overbiked? Underbiked? Inappropriate radness? All's I'm sayin' is you slap a motor on that puppy and then you're really havin' fun. AmIRight? Damn straight...
Nevertheless, I couldn’t help but wonder how many of these riders would have been happier that Saturday morning if they’d been aboard bikes that weren’t quite so purposefully burly. Such as it was, I had a hunch that many of them were suffering from ebike envy. They wanted to keep the meaty tires, the 36 forks, because that is the aspiration they bought into, but maybe just add a few hundred watts of power in there to spice things back up, make those trails fun again…
Overbiking on mellow trails as a feeder for future ebike purchases? Well played, bike industry. Well played. Very sly. If you’d lobbed such a scenario at me that day on Porcupine Rim, even with my brain operating at 500 times its usual capacity, I still never would have seen it coming. Like a snake eating its own tail, means and end no longer matter. I just hope the snake isn’t made out of a handlebar.
Comments
Deniz Merdano
1 year, 5 months ago
Plot twist;
There were NO mountain bikers on Porcupine Rim that day!
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Mike Ferrentino
1 year, 5 months ago
Mind. Blown.
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Vik Banerjee
1 year, 5 months ago
The mountain bike industry is mostly about selling a fantasy and a lot less about actually riding bicycles on trails. So folks buying long travel EWS replica rigs to "shred" their local buff machine built blue flow trails makes a lot of sense in that context.
Selling them machines with batteries and motors also makes sense as that takes away much of the downside of needlessly moving around those machines on easy trails.
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Pete Roggeman
1 year, 5 months ago
I'm a bit sad that you feel this way. Not that there isn't a lot of what you describe, but that you think it's under such emphasis. Whatever your definition is of 'the mountain bike industry', part of it is what you experience (shops, ads, media, events) and part of it is what you make of it.
For sure the mktg in this sport can feel that way, but point me in the direction of a sport or activity that isn't guilty of that? (doesn't mean we can't all be better)
And certainly, everyone's experiences and definition of the industry differs, but I just got back from an event that had (jaded) media, (greedy) industry, and (pampered)* pros in attendance, and the positive vibe that centered squarely on a love of riding and not a fantasy world full of shiny stuff and vanity was impossible to miss. Maybe I'm just sad more people couldn't have experienced it. I'm brimming with positivity about the industry right now.
*sarc
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Rob_Grain
1 year, 5 months ago
Yeah I agree with this I think. Mtb marketing is not the root cause of the discrepancy between ideal case for the sport, vs actual case (which involves a lot of silliness and overbiking, or non appreciation for bike/trail/rider/skill symbiosis)... Like marketing may miss the target, bring about the wrong types of fantasies or whatever, but there are definitely people in my life who do not have a sport that they truly love and thrive at, and sometimes on occasion marketing might actually be a catalyst to making that happen... whether it's mtb or another sport.... connecting that person to an idea or vision or a belief that it could be worth pursuing... In terms of lowering the bar or diluting or convoluting how people enter the sport or integrate it into an already convoluted society, I think that falls on the rest of the industry, the stakeholders, landowners, builders, local chapters, and also just regular riders to continue to have a vision for the sport amidst complexity and obstacles that arise. And this will be dynamic as the years roll on, and also partially influenced by the bikes you've ridden and seen ridden, or find yourself around, for better or worse
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Frorider
1 year, 5 months ago
Interesting observations about human nature, as always Mike. Reminds me of the very-clean bejeweled Overlanding Rigs, heavy with poor mpg and even worse pavement handling. But aspirational.
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Kos
1 year, 5 months ago
Nice viewpoint, as usual.
The whole over/underbiking thing reminds me of an old George Carlin skit: There are two types of driver. Assholes, who drive faster than me, and morons, who drive slower!
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Velocipedestrian
1 year, 5 months ago
"Overbiking on mellow trails as a feeder for future ebike purchases?"
Oof, that smells too likely. The only reason I don't buy it is because it sounds like a clever multi-year strategy. Something the bike industry has proved itself incapable of.
On the other hand, More Is More Is More has been the gold standard in marketing bikes for a long time now. So long they had to claim a whole new niche (DC, shall not be named, etc) to sell light trail bikes again.
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whotookit
1 year, 5 months ago
As a preface, I LOVE the content that NSMB puts out. However, living in Wisconsin and having the vast majority of mountain bike opinions and articles come from the PNW gives a very skewed vision of what is "necessary" and "good" for mountain bike riding.
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Pete Roggeman
1 year, 5 months ago
That's a fair point and totally understandable. There's a lot of industry and riders in and around Wisconsin, are there any cool sites, zines, etc, that we don't know about, that do a good job of covering the riding around you?
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whotookit
1 year, 5 months ago
None that I'm aware of sadly. There are certainly local talented riders (Patrick Smage being the standout for fun content) and the occasional touring youtuber doing a local trail featurette. Past that it's down to race reports, word of mouth, and trailforks/mtb project/strava heatmaps to see what's what in the area.
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BarryW
1 year, 5 months ago
I'll bet! As a northwest Washington resident I have access to amazing terrain not far off of what NSMB is all about, and I'm sure we all skew the meter in a weird direction for bikes.
I ride a 135mm trail bike, but with inserts in the tires because rough terrain and slippery shit! Compare that to when I took a demo ride from Sea Otter Classic where Mike talks about in the article and I felt wildly over biked on a 150mm bike. Made me wish I had taken a groad bike it for a spin.
But tomorrow morning when I ride my local? I'm loving the slack trail bike with inserts because PNW.
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KavuRider
1 year, 5 months ago
I started riding when the New World Disorder movies were out and I loved long-travel heavy bikes. That was all I rode, everywhere. Granted, bikes 20 years ago broke all the time and I built heavy rigs because I was poor and didn't want to have to keep replacing parts.
Bikes now are so ridiculously good. I ran into a guy I used to ride with years ago and we were marveling how we can ride the same terrain/features on a 140mm travel bike that we used to ride on 9" travel monsters.
I am on an Ibis Ripmo AF right now and I often feel overbiked, even on some of the rowdier trails around here. I actually just picked up an old Santa Cruz Blur LT and I am having a blast on that bike, it is so much livelier and responsive on the flowier trails.
BTW, riding Porcupine on acid sounds like a heck of a time.
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cbamos
1 year, 5 months ago
It's amazing how we all get so caught up in it all. If you grow up skiing on the east coast, you know that bulletproof ice still offers the possibility of "fun". Powder days are nice, but to echo some of your previous posts, getting caught up in fomo over perfect conditions and optimized equipment can be paralyzing.
I bought a DRB (dirt road bike = groad bike) last year, and have found that, for me, it's the best "quiver killer" for driving around the western US, maybe riding some trails (many older trails in the states with bike access are pretty mellow from a S2S perspective), maybe a sweet 3k road climb, or maybe just a "what's over that hill?" or "see if I can catch a sunset or even a cell signal from up there," sort of ride. Hell, I usually don't even bother to put on "bike clothes".
Don't get me wrong, I still I have the midlife-crisis style drive/desire to "Rally like Barelli" on only the finest enduro rig with optimized casings and compounds (confirmed with my personal pocket durometer, don't ride without one). But more and more, just grabbing a PBJ and riding until I've earned a beer/seltzer/CBD water is just as satisfying for me.
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cbamos
1 year, 5 months ago
This comment has been removed.
cbamos
1 year, 5 months ago
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Perry Schebel
1 year, 5 months ago
rad bike.
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Mike Ferrentino
1 year, 5 months ago
Is that the groad equivalent of overbiking? Love me some Chamois Hagar in the wild sighting...
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cbamos
1 year, 5 months ago
The CH is such a strange and excellent DRB. Once I became accustomed to its somewhat homely lines, all other bikes started looking weird. My hand's up for joining the cult.
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Phil Szczepaniak
1 year, 5 months ago
Agree with you 100% . I just came back from a Moab road trip, hitting Washington, Oregon, Idaho on the way. And checking out some of the trails along the way, I wished I had my DRB as you call it.
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Rob_Grain
1 year, 5 months ago
There is a whole lot of good substance in this piece, as we’ve come to expect from MF’r… there’s always lots in between the lines. On the more simple point about overbiking. I’ve recently been gifted the opportunity to ride a really big bike compared to what I learned and currently ride as my daily downcountry driver… the over biked big bike surprised me. I now see bikes more like instruments, less like a hierarchy of weapons for different levels of challenges. Another first principle I keep coming back to, is most of us who are obsessed with bikes ride a small fraction of the bikes and components that are out there. Can we learn more about the sport by playing a wider variety of instruments. I know the wider discussion deals with skews in the landscaped and policy which is less about what bike is most fun, what trip will be the funnest… I can’t weigh in on that one
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Pete Roggeman
1 year, 5 months ago
Yes. Ride more bikes. Try different things.
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BarryW
1 year, 5 months ago
As an expert level sea kayaker I've seen such positive learning from other paddling disciplines. Like canoeing, surf kayaking and paddleboarding. But even to my also expert, super enthusiastic friends it's a hard sell to not paddle their 'perfect' boat that's perfect for maybe 5% of what we do and otherwise merely decent.
And I'm selling it as making them better in that very same 'perfect' boat. Much like riding different types of bikes makes for good learning. But most aren't interested in that.
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Andy Eunson
1 year, 5 months ago
We are kind of like that frog in the boiling water thing. We don’t see what’s happening. We ride because it’s thrilling. More travel, better brakes, droppers all make it easier so we build and search for harder trails to bring back the thrill. We get bigger bikes and bigger trails to seek that thrill. Same thrill but the exposure is greater which I suppose is part of the thrill. On an individual basis I ask what am I looking for? I am not comfortable with too much exposure. A little is OK but I really don’t need to risk and injury at my age. But I was never the big risk rider or skier. I always crept up on things. I developed more skills so I could ride tougher things that were within my envelope of comfort. Sometimes riders need a more capable bike to stay within their envelope of comfort while riding with more skilled friends.
Some riders need the more capable bike as a replacement for a lack of skills they may never have. It’s not right or wrong, it just is.
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TristanC
1 year, 5 months ago
I had an interesting parallel observation. I moved to central Germany for the next couple years for work, and I only brought my groad bike with me. I've been riding to work and on the various local forest roads/farm tracks/pirate singletrack. It's all pretty mellow, some of it is challenging on 38mm semislick tires, but it's not impossible.
It seems like half the other people I see, either commuting on smooth pavement or in the forest, are on (either Cube or Haibike) monstrous-looking ebikes. Fox 36s, full suspension, Minions, the whole package. I'm baffled. It can't be easy to ride those, right? Does the motor actually make up for all that? Did they get the bike cheap and don't care? I'm not trying to dump on ebikes, I'm glad people are out riding, but I'm honestly puzzled.
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cxfahrer
1 year, 5 months ago
Living in the central of Germany, it is the same here as on every place on the world where people have the money but not the time to get into whatever "hobby" or "sports".
This leads to the "best" possible equipment for "just in case" and showing off. And carrying this device around on a rack on a car, that will never get used the way it is made for (like that brand new Defender I saw yesterday with rims and tires better suited for a track race car).
On the other hand, I always liked to ride around with my 170mm 17kg enduro rig on those many easy flat trails around here, just in case I might like to do a drop to flat or ride down a stair or something like that, because I can and could not do if I had a gravel bike.
Very good read! Reminded me of so many missed opportunities, like being on acid, at Moab, and on a singlespeed (or any mtb) - but none of those altogether. That's life. Always the wrong decisions, and parts missing.
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Merwinn
1 year, 5 months ago
Perhaps its their only bike, or perhaps they justified the need for a Ford Raptor equivalent for the paved commute to an office job.
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Timer
1 year, 5 months ago
E motorbikes are an entirely different story. There is no penalty to the weight and rolling resistance. So the "bigger is better" mindset gets to reign supreme. In Germany, most E-mtbs are SUV equivalents. They never see proper off-road riding and it doesn't matter that they weight two tons and roll like a brick because they can just slap a 500hp engine on.
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Mark
1 year, 5 months ago
There's strong reasoning to support the idea the humans are hardwired for laziness. So overbiking and ebiking may simply be the natural progression of the bicycle for all but those who ride for more esoteric reasons. IMHO from a trail use perspective it's a waste of energy ranting/raving/hating about ebike use on the trials. Instead, that same energy would be much better spent getting that user group to buy into trail etiquette, advocacy and maintenance before they become disemboweled by the greed of more speed, more trails and more fun.
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Mike Ferrentino
1 year, 5 months ago
Okay, but if we are wired for laziness, wouldn't the lazy person want the lowest wattage expenditure tool for whatever job is at hand? Or wouldn't the lazy person just forgo riding bikes completely, because lazy?
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Mark
1 year, 5 months ago
Maybe. You could probably fit the law of diminishing returns in some way where too little effort makes things uninteresting and not worth doing at all. I think the overbike/ebike tools put riding within the reach of people who may be a little trail-shy due to the effort required or perceived danger factor but think it looks fun enough to try or they could just let people have similar levels of fun to what they used to have when they were younger, fitter or just less creaky. Either way it's hard to argue that everyone is reaping the benefits of better bikes making it easier to go down as well as up no matter what we're riding. The only exception may be when Cooper takes his 90's era mountain bike, err I mean gravel bike, out for a rip on some single black Shore jank.
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kcy4130
1 year, 5 months ago
In yesteryear over biking was a necessity. Or maybe I should say that underbiking wasn't a viable option. I wasn't overbiked, I was right biked. Generally, back then long travel bikes were the only ones with decent geo (for the time) and strong enough to last a while. I'm not sure if shorter travel bikes have gotten stronger or if I've just gotten older and become less... loose cannon in riding style, but I don't break bikes/parts like I used to. There's a lot less pilot error (as some warrantee departments call it) now than 15-20 years ago for me.
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fartymarty
1 year, 5 months ago
KCY - I remember back to the late 90s when everything broke. I ended up buying bigger stronger bikes until I was riding around on a DH bike with wide range cassette. Bigger wheels have changed that to the extent travel is less (I'm 160/140 now as opposed to 200/200) but my trail bike still weighs in the high 30lbs. Saying that tho we do have trails in the area that need it.
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Joseph Crabtree
1 year, 5 months ago
I am constantly amazed at the number of young e-bikers at Ord as there isn't a climb over a few hundred feet. I no longer go out there to ride there as I've had too many close encounters but sometimes include a loop when out on the "groad" bike. I'm hoping for some rain this winter to thin the herd as it is a great place for the HT and it looks like we'll have the CCCX cross racing going next month. Maybe I'll see you there.
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Mike Ferrentino
1 year, 5 months ago
So many ebikes! I am stoked to see so many people out riding Ord, and such diversity of riders, and I do not give a hoot what any of them are riding. That place is so big it just absorbs everyone. Climbing 50 a couple weeks ago, feeling it was a decent pace, I heard voices rolling up behind me, getting louder, obviously going MUCH faster than me. They caught me as we topped out, and my internal monolog was bagging on ebikers for making me pedal harder to stay out of their way. Nope. Turns out it was just a pack of much faster riders on XC bikes putting down a bunch of acoustic watts.
If the weather ever gets properly cool, I may show for some 'cross. Feeling about 20 pounds too heavy to want to brave that crucible, but it's a glorious kind of agony that I've been threatening to revisit for too many years now...
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Ziggy
1 year, 5 months ago
Was thinking of heading to Ord this weekend. Got any route recommendations? I plan on bringing my rigid plusser. Thanks!
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Mark
1 year, 5 months ago
There is definitely something to be said for taking the couch (big bike) out for rips on more mellow trails. It's a different kind of fun. But it's not something I'd want to do forever and what makes it fun is the fact that it's so different from getting bounced around on the typical gnar type trails that a lot of people ride underbiked with capable hardtails or enduro/trail bikes.
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Andy Eunson
1 year, 5 months ago
There’s a trail near me called Lucy In the Sky with Diamonds. Named after a young woman that had died in a kayaking accident. Not hard. Pretty smooth but it can be fast in sections but feels safe. I call it "Lost Mojo" because if you’ve had on of those rides where you make mistake after mistake maybe have a wee crash and then walk stuff, you go ride "Lost Mojo" to feel good about yourself again. Then you can go back and ride “Black Shark". If you dare. Totally agree on ripping easier trails on a big bike.
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lookseasyfromhere
1 year, 5 months ago
The only time I've ever found myself wishing for a 170mm magic carpet was on Trail 41 late in the season when it was 2 miles of hard packed gopher hole chatter armageddon.
This coming from a goof who rides a 120mm hardtail all over Santa Cruz County.
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Lynx .
1 year, 5 months ago
Well, to figure this out and then just come straight out with it like that Mike, that takes some major cahones, I mean seriously, you've dug through the BS "We really don't know what we're doing and definitely not over a long term" crap the industry tried to make everyone believe and figured out the most recent plan - make people buy bigger, more capable and heavier bikes, then sell them on using an "assist" to bring back the fun because they're really not as easy or quick up the climbs as they say. BRAVO.
Seriously, another good piece, how I feel all the time and again, not geared towards the <1% of those lucky enough to have the terrain to "justify" such bikes as NSMB , just most would do a lot better with "less" bike than most have. Even though I've only got my fav little Phantom back up and running this year to then have the shock blow and be out again for a good few months, then getting a new shock and getting her back up and running, grabbing the rigid Unit which I haven't ridden in over a month, with some 29x2.6" rubber on i35 rims felt so damn good, despite my love for the Phantom. Prime is now stripped back down and hung up for maybe another future "emergency" if the Phantom goes down or if I decide to maybe join a shuttle day with the guys.
Oh and still waiting for the "LIKE" button to give the writers props even if you aren't feeling the need to comment to let them know they did good.
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papa44
1 year, 5 months ago
I was marvelling just yesterday at how capable a modern hardtail is on trails that 20 years ago would have folded my bike in half and/or spat me over the bars. We have seen incredible progression and I wonder how much happier and challenged the majority of riders would be on a hardtail with an extra 5-7k in the bank
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Hugo Williamson
1 year, 5 months ago
Maybe, but as you get older, fatigue levels and old joints need appropriate comfort, therefore a FS bike is the best.
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papa44
1 year, 5 months ago
I disagree, you don’t have to go mad, you can always slow down a bit over the rough stuff. it’s more a technical challenge on a hardtail but a good modern fork and big modern tubeless tyres and you can ride almost anything no matter your age or condition. I think we’ve all got complacent about how groomed and fast our trails should be and how easily we can get up and quickly we can come down. I like to overcome a difficult ride it’s what I go out for, coasting down the groomers on a sofa is not the same risk v reward at my age
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Justin White
1 year, 5 months ago
Some tech gnar cannot be mitigated just by reducing speed. Variously because reducing speed adds it's own challenges, or because certain lines cannot be made without enough speed yet they make the whole thing smoother, or the risk factor of mistakes on a bike that can't handle said mistakes is far greater at any speed.
You say hardtails add challenge, because it sometimes forces you to pick lines and slow down. Except you can do that on any bike. Another way to add challenge to to try and use the entire trail at any speed, instead of one or two very specific ways that you also need to slow down for on a hardtail.
A more forgiving bike (I'm not saying "more capable bike" on purpose) doesn't preclude you from doing things "hardtail style", but certainly reduces the risk of the "try anything style".
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papa44
1 year, 5 months ago
Some good points well made, but I still think for the majority of riders that terrain is not normally available to them, and for where they regularly ride the lower complexity, cheaper total price and easier maintenance would be more suitable. For me, i live near the Pyrenees and regularly ride in Millau and at 50ish I can afford either an exceptional hardtail or a mediocre full boing, it was an easy choice as I can only think of maybe two trails in my regular riding areas that are no fun on a hard tail. I even ride with a similar aged guy on a fully ridged carbon Open and he rips everything except the bumpiest shit. All that being said if I lived in the alps or the PNW I’d probably be more inclined to agree with you; on my dopey hardtail I couldn’t understand any part of the vink line in chattel
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Larrabee
1 year, 5 months ago
“I just hope the snake isn’t made out of a handlebar.”
Well-penned, Sir.
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Adrian Bostock
1 year, 5 months ago
ebikers in full armour (cyborgs) descending the climbing trails is becoming the vibe around here. better than Netflix i guess.
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Justin White
1 year, 5 months ago
"far more bike than is needed"
Needed for what, though?
Spinning and winning every climb, while by necessity picking your way the only "safe" way down every descent? Railing every descent and finding new maybe sketchy lines, even if means pushing through some sandy bits? Because an XC race bike is "overbiked" for the latter. Far more bike than is needed for the sandy bits.
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Scott Smith
1 year, 5 months ago
Seems to be a theme here of judging other peoples equipment choices. Not a fan.
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papa44
1 year, 5 months ago
Probably the main part of any hobby innit
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Bikes
1 year, 5 months ago
Doing everything everywhere barefoot may be challenging. Not sure its always fun.
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