I confess that I was a little surprised to learn that OneUp was doing a serious redesign of their successful and well-priced dropper post. It's a product that already led the market in several categories, including longest drop, shortest stack and inserted length, and shortest overall length for a given drop. When you add easy serviceability, excellent reliability and solid performance, you have to wonder why OneUp would go to all this trouble. To my mind, the OneUp V2 Dropper is a post that ain't broke, so why fix it?
I shouldn't say that quite so equivocally. I own a V2 post that has had a little more rotational play than I'd like since new but that's about the only criticism I can lay at a product I have abused for years.
I was however, willing to give the new one a try - a 240 drop that I kept at full length - to see just what OneUp was getting at. To answer Andrew's question, the drop of the longest dropper I know of is quick and positive. I wouldn't want it any faster but it's not so abrupt that an accidental deployment is going to blow you out of the cockpit. I'd call it a little on the fast side of just right, which sounds like the sweet spot out of the box.
I had questions however, so I enlisted the gent who is known for his clever problem solving and excellent exucution; OneUp Head of Product, CTO and co-founder Jon Staples (pictured above).
Cam McRae - I have to confess Jon, I'm a little surprised you've reworked your dropper considering how well-received the V2 has been. Why did you want to fix it when it wasn't broke?
Jon Staples - While I agree the V2 certainly isn't broken, after 5 years in service we had a very good idea of where there was room for improvement. But we'll still take care of our V2 owners. No matter where you bought a V2, or any OneUp product, if you contact [email protected] we'll take care of you. We're also introducing an SKF Seal upgrade for the V2 dropper and we'll continue to offer replacement parts for V2 for at least another 5 years. Our policy is to get customers up and riding again in the minimum possible time. Our customer service team have a massive database of customer feedback. This helps guide how we improve our products.
Obviously you did a little of everything. What were your most important goals?
Overall the goals of the V3 were to offer significantly improved smoothness of operation and decreased weight, while also lowering maintenance and keeping the price super competitive. It has to be something we'd buy with our own money. I think the press release sums it up nicely with the tagline "Simply, the best". If customers see V3 and think "why would I buy anything else?" then I'd be Stoked!
Looking at the weights and comparing various sizes, I noticed that the 240 in 34.9 is 200 grams heavier than the 30.9. Where is that 200 grams? Is it aluminum wall-thickness?
Yes. The added weight is from the increased wall thickness of the lower tube. We opted to make our 34.9mm post using all the same internals and upper tube as the 30.9 and 31.6. As such the only difference on that post is the thicker lower tube but service parts are identical across all sizes. For people with 34.9mm bikes it is totally fine to use a 30.9 to 34.9 or 31.6 to 34.9mm with a shim to save significant weight. The 26mm OD upper tube we use on all sizes of post has no trouble passing testing, even at the 210 and 240mm lengths. We could make a dedicated, larger OD 34.9 dropper, but it would still be heavier than running a shimmed 31.6 or 30.9 (if you're concerned about weight) and would be more expensive.
So, to be clear, you wouldn't discourage riders from using a 30.9 and a shim, as I am doing currently?
No, I would not discourage doing this.
It's clear a chunk of weight came out of the clamp and the new cartridge. Where else did you save grams?
There are a few other places.
- All the upper tubes have oval ID profiles (thicker front and rear) this saves 10-15g. 90-180mm use one profile while the 210mm and 240mm have their own dedicated profiles. On the V2 I was limited on the 240 drop by the 20mm OD of the V2 cartridge. By reducing the cartridge OD I was able to use an oval ID profile to make the upper tube lighter and stiffer.
- The Lower tube ID is larger on V3 than it was on V2, not by much but in addition to saving weight it allows better clearance between the upper and lower tubes and much better resistance to seat collar clamping torque
- Every other part was evaluated to remove whatever weight I could. A few grams on each part adds up! For instance the V3 actuator saved 6g and to me that's worth the tooling cost.
You have gone to a sealed cartridge with no air valve to adjust the return speed. What was the rationale for this change?
The V2 was air filled and designed to run at pressures achievable by a standard shock pump. As such, the diameter needed to be large enough to get decent return speed and force from 300psi. The OD of the V2 cartridge was also very close to the ID of the upper tube on V2 (as noted above) which limited the ID profiling that was possible. The V3 cartridge, in contrast, runs higher pressure and is factory nitrogen filled (more on that later). The higher pressure allows a smaller diameter piston to achieve our desired return speed and force as well as giving us more freedom to extend the top of the cartridge further into the upper tube (saves upper tube weight).
The V2 cartridge was a twin tube system so it could be shorter and fatter but carried more oil and aluminum making it heavier. The V3 is longer because the Nitrogen chamber is inline with the oil chamber. This saved significant cartridge weight but required a longer body.
The single biggest source of a refillable cartridge losing pressure comes from the schrader valve itself, especially when running pressures at or close to 300psi (as most droppers do). Air is also more prone to leak out than pure Nitrogen. By removing the fill valve, filling with Nitrogen and removing any threaded end caps (threads can sometimes nick orings during assembly) we've designed a cartridge that never needs to be filled. On a side note, adjustable pressures may seem like a good idea but in reality 300psi is typically just enough to make a post function properly with a 20mm OD cartridge. Dropping to 240 or 250psi runs a real risk of making the post lethargic and/or having it fail to top out.
The system is designed to maintain pressure for years. If it ever does require replacement the process takes 5 minutes using a 14mm wrench, 5mm hex and 2mm hex (or an EDC tool). For the average customer that is a much more friendly undertaking than a rebuild that would take a qualified mechanic a few hours or that requires you to mail the post to a service center. The cartridge structure is also 98% pure aluminum, uses a relatively low volume of oil and can be rendered inert with our recommended puncture/recycling procedure.
Lastly, I want to note that the cartridge is 100% designed at OneUp. Everything from the piston shape and valve design to the oil and Nitrogen charge was developed over the course of 18 months to achieve exactly the performance we wanted. This is not the Wintec style off-the-shelf-solution that is seen in many of our competitors.
Does OneUp intend to pursue a wireless dropper post? What are your thoughts on that? If it isn't in the plan can you tell me why?
Wireless is something I'm currently investigating but for it to move forward we'd need to do something that is a departure from the offerings that are currently on the market. Even then I'm not sure it's for everyone.
Outside of having a battery to remember to charge, I think wireless drivetrains do offer some advantages over mechanical systems in strength and precision. Wireless droppers, on the other hand, increase stack and total length significantly thereby limiting the amount of drop that a given person can run. For me, that's just not a tradeoff I think is reasonable.
Not to mention the added cost of of a wireless system. and the fact that the actuation is binary and therefore doesn't give the rider an ability to fine tune the height while the valve is half open.
Of the improvements you've made to the V3 dropper, if you had to choose one you and your team are most proud of, what would it be?
Weight. It is the lightest infinitly adjustable post on the market (compared travel to travel). It's also lighter than all but the most boutique, carbon, two position posts.
Runner up would be the simplicity of the tear down. I can turn it into a pile of subcomponents in 2-3 minutes using just an EDC tool.
Thanks Jon!
You an check the post at OneUpComponents.com
Comments
cxfahrer
8 months, 3 weeks ago
I don't think the "throw-away" cartridge is a matter not being eco-friendly. Sure it all adds up, but compare it to beer cans - it's just aluminum and a tiny amount of oil - not rare earth materials like in every lithium battery.
It's bad for everyone who likes tinkering with pressure and oil levels or fixing worn out o-rings, like me. But most people will throw it away after it sits some years on a shelf.
What indeed adds up is all the new parts being bought just because they are new, making old parts obsolete. But compared to washing machines, cars or beer cans those bicycle parts are not such a big impact, and really good recyclable I guess.
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Gage Lejay
8 months, 3 weeks ago
Agree, but its all part of it.
Li batteries, oooh boy don't open that can of worms with eebs and environmental cost upfront and long term in an industry that has polystandards and frequently releases products without backwards capability and with tech that has a finite lifespan.
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Perry Schebel
8 months, 3 weeks ago
nice that they're offering the upgraded seal head for the v2; my post works fine, but the OG seal is decidedly not great.
(alas seems like a popular item; currently sold out)
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Gage Lejay
8 months, 3 weeks ago
I would like to preface that the product looks and sounds great. Clearly Oneup know what they are doing. I do want to point out that we are prioritizing weight savings of a few grams for a disposable cartridge. I rebuild my V2s twice to three times a year to keep them fresh in the PNW wet and have no problem checking the pressure. I am not an eco-saint but I do feel we need to take a hard look at our beloved nature based hobby and just tally the increased waste for benefit.
Story time. One day a volunteer from outside the sport came up to me on a trail day. They made a comment that the organization who was hosting said day did not meet the expectation for proper group discussion on the environmental impact of digging pits to repair the trails. At first I was a little peeved but this comment was not meant to be pedantic. It was meant to be critical for the benefit of the sport and the place we live in.
So, not to be pedantic but to Oneup I would congratulate on the good work with small parts availability and ease of repair keeping a good product in circulation for as long as possible. You're engineering team did a great job meeting the market demands. To myself and the market, let's ask for products (cartridges in this case) that we do not need to bin after a few years. Let's accept some bike weight and lose that race weight during our morning BM.
P.S.
To the "it's a small part" people. Grams add up fast, just ask Jon S., even in the recycling smelter.
Sincerely,
Pedantic
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Cam McRae
8 months, 3 weeks ago
Interesting angle Gage. I wonder what the ratio of people would be between those who scrap their post (or just stop using it and put it on a shelf) and buy a new one to those who regular service their post or have it serviced.
I assume you don’t service the cartridge though? Or maybe you do. Either way, the V2 cartridge doesn’t last forever so it seems to me like it’s a part with a lifespan (albeit an adjustable part) for one that seems to have a longer lifespan. Common sense tells me te sealed cartridge (assuming it performs up to expectation) is more likely to keep posts in circulation.
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Gage Lejay
8 months, 3 weeks ago
My take from the articles on PB and here was that the sealed cartridge has a shorter lifespan. My current cartridges have lasted 3-4 years so far.
If the lifespan of the cartridge is going to be longer than 10 years than we will likely see the parts supply for seals and other small bits dwindle before needing to replace and it may not be relevant for most people who use their dropper for <5 years and change bikes. Heck, changing standards may kill a specific dropper before the cartridge dies out too in that case.
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oneupcomponents
8 months, 3 weeks ago
Jon @ OneUp here. We thought long and hard about the current cartridge direction. In the end we focused on making a cartridge that won't leak (I agree we're going to need to prove that to customers over time) and can be recycled as 100% aluminum if it does.
As noted in the article the air valve was the cause of most leaks and also the entry point for contaminants that shorten the cartridge life.
We stand behind it performing for the entire warranty period and offer instructions to recycle it appropriately.
https://www.oneupcomponents.com/blogs/eol/v3-dropper-cartridge-recycling-process
I hope that helps.
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Gage Lejay
8 months, 3 weeks ago
I love seeing the makers of product on the NSMB pages. Straight from the horses mouth as they say.
Jon, what is the projected lifespan of the V3 cartridge? Is this expected to last longer than the V2?
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oneupcomponents
8 months, 3 weeks ago
They should last years and we'll warranty any air lose for the full warranty period. Once punctured the cartridge body is the equivalent amount of aluminum as recycling 3-5 beer cans.
Brian Tuulos
8 months, 3 weeks ago
I rebuild reverbs and keep them running forever. Sometimes new o-rings required, maybe a new IFP, or a off the shelf bushing, rebuild with fresh oil, ready to go for the next 1-2 years. Now that reverbs are available in 175-200 drops, thats all I need. Agree, don't like the disposable cartridge approach. Both for the environment and my wallet.
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Justin White
8 months, 3 weeks ago
"Air is also more prone to leak out than pure Nitrogen."
Hasn't this been debunked the the car world, and the shock IFP world as well? "Air" is almost 80% nitrogen, and the difference in molecule size is ~3%, ~8 picometers. If a seal is somehow only letting out a significant amount of the 20% of air that is 292 picometers wide while keeping in most of the 80% that is 300 picometers wide, that's some precision engineering!
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cedrico
8 months, 2 weeks ago
So if I stick it out with my v2, I'll be the only one with an efficient seated climbing position when the apocalypse comes?
Joking aside, this is a very cool insight into some of the engineering decisions.
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knollybikes.com
8 months, 2 weeks ago
I'm a bit late replying to this article, but I just wanted to say that Jon Staples is one of the smartest and most humble engineering product designers in the industry. Awesome guy, great interview :)
Cheers,
Noel Buckley
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