Review
Norco Fluid VLT
Recently, I’ve had a few friends take career breaks. When endless hard work and ladder climbing is put on a pedestal all around us, it’s a brave choice. I’ve been at my job for 15 years or so and when I hear about it, my overwhelming feelings are happiness for them and oppressive envy. We’re told from a young age, work hard and then you can get into a good school! Work hard and you can get a good job! Work hard and you can, well, die eventually!
The glorification of the grind is pervasive and sometimes you just want to live a little, have fun and work a bit less... hard? I think we can all agree that it's important to balance the striving in life with the living of it and enjoyment of the everyday. But for some reason, this doesn’t seem to translate over to the e-bike vs analogue bike debate. Should it really even be a debate? If I had to pick a side of the fence I’m not even sure where I would land. I love my pedal bike, but sometimes I want to have fun and just… work a little less hard. Is that so bad?
My longstanding hypothesis is that lightweight e-bikes will be the ticket for women and other riders who want a bit of assistance, but still want the physical, mental and emotional benefits of cardio and exercise endorphins that come with a decent effort, or are concerned about being able to maneuver a heavy bike. We’ve had full powered e-bikes in the house on and off for years and I never reached for them, except when commuting or using the bike as a grocery getter. I love the descending component of mountain biking but getting out into the forest to get my heart pumping is an equally important part of riding to me.
Between my day job and other responsibilities, I often feel like I’m juggling too many things, hoping to remember what balls I have in the air. On those days it's a struggle to get out the door and into the forest, but it's always worth it and I always feel better for it. The peace and relief I find is in the climb, once I find my rhythm and settle into meditative breathing: pushing myself to the sweet spot where my brain lets go of the noise and focusses on the effort and the trail ahead. By the time I reach my descent, I close my eyes to take in the sounds of the forest around me, breathe, and feel like myself again. Now to find the kid inside!
Riding full powered e-bikes never connected me in the same way. It’s a good time, no doubt, but I struggled to feel the connection between my efforts and my movements on the trail, the synchronicity of my inputs and attention to the progress of my bike and body through the forest. The weight and bulk of a full powered e-bike will smooth the trail beneath you and carry speed like a demon, but I’d struggle to feel like I was piloting the bike, more like I was holding on for the ride. I’m not a tiny person, and I like to think I’m fairly strong and yet the heft of the big e-bikes could be a lot for me to maneuver in some situations. I imagine some smaller people would have an even harder time with that.
I’ve always expected a lightweight e-bike to be the best of both worlds, and to ride like a lighter and smaller full powered e-bike. Experiencing the Fluid VLT opened my eyes and I realized lightweight e-bikes are their own category. Much like women are not small men, a lightweight e-bike is not just a small full-powered e-bike; there are some distinct differences between the two.
Norco Fluid VLT C1 140
The 2024 Fluid VLT C1 140 is a lightweight e-bike from Norco that is offered in a few different spec configurations. The C 140 is Norco’s second from the top in this lightweight trail category and retails at 12,100 CAD. It comes equipped with 150mm/140mm front and rear suspension, and a mullet set-up. The top end Fluid VLT C1 130 (at 14,000 CAD) is more trail oriented with 140/130mm travel numbers, and all other models in the line that feature the C2 frame revert to the 150-140 suspension offering. The more affordable C2 models range in price from 9,700 to 7,700 CAD and feature a carbon front triangle and alloy rear end, with various spec options.
The Fluid VLT is powered by a Bosch Performance Line SX drive system. There are 5 frame sizes to fit riders 5’0 to 6’6, and they all feature MX wheels.
I reviewed the 2024 Fluid VLT C1 140:
Frame: Fluid VLT Carbon Front Triangle, Carbon Seat and Chain stays, UDH, Hangerless Interface Compatible
Fork: Fox 36 Performance Elite, 29", 150mm Travel, 44mm Offset
Shock: Fox FLOAT X2 Performance Elite, 185x55mm Trunnion
Drivetrain: SRAM X0 Eagle 10-52T
Shifting: SRAM X0 Eagle AXS T-Type with SRAM Pod Ultimate Controller
Crankset: Praxis Carbon Bosch, 165mm
Cassette: SRAM 1295 T-Type, 10-52T
Brakes: SRAM Code Silver Stealth, 4-Piston, Metallic Pads
Rotors: SRAM Centreline, 200mm Front, 180mm Rear
Seatpost: OneUp Travel Adjust Dropper, 31.6mm, 125mm (S1), 150mm (S2), 170mm (S3), 200mm (S4, S5)
Saddle: Fizik Ridon
Rims: Crank Brothers Synthesis Alloy Wheelset Enduro E-Bike, 27.5" Rear, 29" Front.
Front Hub: Crank Bros. Synthesis Alloy, 110x15mm Boost, 6-Bolt
Rear Hub: Crank Bros. Synthesis Alloy, 148x12mm Boost, Star Ratchet, 6-Bolt, XD
Front Tire: Continental Kryptotal 29" x 2.4" Trail
Rear Tire: Continental Xynotal 27.5" x 2.4" Trail
Drive Unit
The power centre of the Fluid VLT is the Bosch Performance Line SX drive unit, the smallest and lightest Bosch e-bike motor available at just over 2kg. The four standard power settings of Eco, Tour, eMTB and Turbo are available with a battery capacity of 400 watt hours and a maximum torque of 55Nm. The battery also weighs in at around 2kg making the total weight of the power system just over 4kg. The small handlebar-mounted system controller to adjust power modes is intuitive and easy to use, and lights on the top tube communicate both mode and power remaining in the battery.
The average assistance offered by the SX drive unit is 40 Nm torque or lower (depending on mode). The motor will kick up to 55Nm on hard pedals that exceed average effort, but doesn’t stay at that level. The lower amount of torque put out by the SX drive unit works most efficiently at a higher cadence. Riders who like to grind it out at a lower cadence will find assistance lacking. Higher cadence offers a more consistent assistance level and a good natural ride feel, but creates its own challenges in technical terrain that demand ratcheting or frequent power moves. The Bosch system is also connectable and tunable by app, so the rider has the opportunity to adjust the modes to their preferred feel as well as some of the built in characteristics like the pre-programmed lower assistance level that kicks in when the battery is reaching the end of its charge and the bike shifts to a “just get me home” objective.
The 400 amp hour battery is integrated and can be charged using a 4A charger or 2A charger. With a 4A charger, the charge time is approximately 1.5 hours to 50%, and 3.5 hrs to 100% charge. With a 2A charger, it is slightly less than double the above times.
I’ve split this review into two sections – my overall impressions of the Fluid VLT and my overall impressions of the ride characteristics of a lightweight e-bike, let’s start with the Fluid!
First Impressions
When I was given the opportunity to review the Fluid VLT, I sent my height (5'9) and weight (190lbs) to Norco. They chose a Size 3 for me, and set the bike up using Norco’s Ride Aligned set-up guide with a neutral starting point. I picked the bike up en route to MegaVolt and had my first ride on the Naramata bench testing out it out against its full-powered big sisters and brothers. Riding new to me trails and chasing fast women on big bikes was a fun first experience with the Fluid VLT, and I found the Fluid VLT an intuitive ride and easy to adapt to. The mullet configuration increases the maneuverability of the bike. I love descending on mullets, but I’ve struggled in the past with the trade-off that I feel with rolling speed and climbing efficiency, concerns erased by the motor.
The Fluid felt very stable at high speeds ripping through the grasslands and was responsive and easy to move around thanks to its light weight. The Fluid has a bottom bracket height of 350mm, which is on the high end. This high BB gives ample clearance from trail obstacles and I had no frame or pedal smashing to complain of.
This year’s MegaVolt had a different format with a few “race” days, including an XC and an Enduro, as well as a consistency challenge and a scavenger hunt day that involved exploring as much of the Three Blind Mice trail network as possible. I did MegaVolt in 2023 atop a 900Wh Canyon Spectral ON with 85NM of torque, the literal opposite end of the e-bike spectrum from the Fluid VLT. Ripping those trails with unlimited power was fun, but the mismatch I experienced in mental fatigue from riding at that speed vs very little physical fatigue ended with a hand-breaking crash for me. It was a learning experience. I am so accustomed to my physical effort being similar to my mental effort, and when my body is cooked, my brain’s ability to scan the trail and stay focused usually follows suit. With a full powered e-bike my brain was working so hard scanning the trail at an increased pace, but I felt like a supercharged human with endless energy, so I failed to notice my brain had checked out and gone home to the beach already.
Riding the Norco VLT was a very different experience and MegaVolt was a boot camp on battery management and power output to keep pace with higher-powered bikes. Thankfully, I like working on the climbs. To keep up with the rest of the super-charged crowd I had to put effort in and make the most of my 400Wh battery and 40-55Nm of torque, but damn did I like that! My brain and body were more in sync and I was working hard but keeping up. I managed to place 2nd in all three timed events in my category – the consistency challenge, XC and enduro, on the Fluid VLT with the lightweight power centre.
The women’s age category field wasn’t the deepest, but I could manage the power and battery to perform pretty well. I was really impressed with how capable the Fluid VLT was in keeping pace with the other bikes on course. The longest rides I clocked on the Fluid VLT (almost killing the battery in both cases) were 38K and 1466m on the North Shore and 30K and 1100m for the enduro at MegaVolt. At just under 43 pounds, the VLT is an efficient pedaller and light enough to manage with the power off to stretch the range or get home if the adventure is a bit longer than planned.
When I brought the bike home to the shore to ride familiar trails, I started to feel different ride characteristics. The trails in Naramata are either fast and flowy or rocky and chunky, and typically lower angle than our home trails. Riding the bike on more technical and steeper terrain I really struggled to get over the front end. I am a little under 5’9 in height and the size 3 Norco had been set up with 740mm width bars. I’ve never ridden 740 bars and it was interesting to experience just how big of a difference narrow bars made to my overall riding position in steeper and more demanding terrain. I typically ride 780s, but can manage on 760 and 800 as well.
We swapped the bars to 780 and softened the fork a bit off the initial recommended set-up, and that combination allowed me to weight the front of the bike better. Still I found I struggled to get a plush feel from the fork. I played with compression and PSI but still found the fork felt harsh and chattery. Unfortunately, it is increasingly common for Fox forks to come brand new from the factory with either too little oil, or too much grease causing the fork to pack up. After a reasonable amount of fucking around trying to make the stock fork feel good, we swapped in a slightly older but otherwise identical Fox 36 from a personal bike and plushness was found. Norco opted to have us send the fork back for them to inspect in-house, so I can’t definitively say what the issue was, but I feel confident that the stock fork was not running as intended. I also note that when I put my details into the Norco Ride Align set-up guide, the recommended bar width for me is 760mm. That is on the narrower end of my preferences, but for a trail bike I understand the recommendation. I suspect the 740mm bars I was provided with were an error.
Sizing
The Fluid VLT comes in 5 sizes, and Norco has stepped away from the traditional S-M-L approach, instead opting for 5 numerical bands. The rear chain stay length varies on sizes and Norco uses its “Ride Aligned” guide to suggest sizing based on height, as well as bike set up and suspension settings based on weight, riding style etc.
I provided my height to Norco and they chose a size 3 for me. I am on the lower end of the size 3 band but technically just out of the size 2 band.
My personal bike is a size medium Santa Cruz Hightower, and the geo numbers on the medium Hightower are very similar to the Size 3 Fluid with the exception of reach and wheelbase. The Fluid has a wheelbase of 1243mm compared with 1218mm on the Hightower, a 25mm difference, with 20.5mm of that difference found in longer reach of the Norco. The top tube difference itself is 18mm. The rear centre and stack are both within a single millimetre on both bikes and both have a 64.5 degree head angle and similar seat tube angles.
The Fluid is a really stretched out bike. While that creates stability, maneuvering a long bike in tighter terrain is more challenging. The mullet setup, high BB, and snappy chainstay length help to balance the length with a controllable rear end. A high BB can result in less stability on the bike, but the combination of long reach and high BB makes for a very stable bike with tons of clearance.
For steeper terrain I had to focus on getting over the front, making this bike perform best in the steeps under riders who are comfortable with a more aggressive forward body position. On lower angle terrain the bike is very maneuverable with a more central or relaxed body position, with great stability at speed thanks in part to the length. If I was to purchase this bike with the intent of riding it regularly in steeper and more technical terrain, I’d be curious to ride the size 2 and see if the smaller frame and shorter reach would give a more agile feel with less effort. The size 2 Fluid has a reach slightly shorter than the reach on the medium Hightower.
Suspension Set-up and Ride Aligned Suggestions
When I picked up the Fluid, Norco had set it up using the Ride Aligned set-up guide on all the average settings for weight bias, suspension feel, trail grip and trail type. The starting set up for me was 94psi in the fork and 229psi in the shock. I ended up settling with about 90 PSI in the fork and 215 in the shock, which is very close to what the Ride Aligned set-up guide recommends for a soft suspension feel. I had reservations about the set-up guide based on the poor performance I was getting from the fork, but after replacing the fork I think the guide provides a good starting point that the rider can tweak. For riders who don’t typically play with their own set-up, the guide also provides different suggestions for different trail type (tech, mixed or flow) and trail grip (low, medium or high), which primarily adjusts the rebound and compression settings. It’s a good tool to play with and can be a useful learning opportunity to understand how these settings are best adjusted on the fly for trail type and condition variables.
The Ride Aligned guide also offers bike set up suggestions for bar width, rise, spacers and tire pressure. I found the recommended tire pressure settings a little high at 23 front and 26 rear, but close. Bar width, rise and spacers are so specific to a rider's body proportions that these should be considered a starting point at best. Arm length, torso length and flexibility are just a few variables that make one 5’9 rider need a different set-up than another 5’9 rider. Start with the suggestions but then play and tweak for your own specifics.
Specs
Internal cable routing and Universal Derailleur Hanger (UDH) compatibility are nice frame characteristics, along with the pearl matte colourway and an easily accessible water bottle mount.
The 140mm Fox Float X2 shock is paired with a Horst link suspension platform, and it rode like a dream with a supportive, progressive and playful feel. Between the frame characteristics, mullet set up and the Float X2, the Fluid was poppy and eager to get airborne. I really enjoyed riding the Fluid VLT on fast terrain with little pops and jumps. One of the unique characteristics of an e-bike is the ability to find that speed and playfulness faster on lower angle terrain, because of the extra weight and pick-up available from the motor. I ran the shock a bit softer than I typically do and I liked the softer top end feel and never had any issues bottoming out. Being able to run the X2 on the softer side also gave me good traction descending. Once I resolved the fork issues, I found the Fox 36 with 150mm suspension to be a good fit for the Fluid, creating a balanced suspension platform with the X2. The stock saddle was uncomfortable for me, so I swapped that. I generally expect to swap saddles on every bike.
The Fluid VLT typically comes with 800mm OneUp Carbon bars, but mine were pre-cut to 740. We swapped those bars to 780 and that improved my riding position significantly. Other than the sizing on my particular test bike, I think OneUp Carbon bars are a great spec pick.
I found the SRAM Code Silver brakes lacked power when really pushing the bike. To add a bit more bite I swapped the stock metallic pads to MTX ceramic brake pads and that improved performance. The 180mm rotor on the rear could be a 200mm, but if I was to ride this bike regularly in steep terrain I would still want to upgrade the brakes. I had Code RSCs on my Hightower and I found them adequate. On spec alone I would expect the Code Silvers to be enough for this bike, but I found I wanted more braking power to reign in the extra weight and speed I could generate on steeper terrain. For rolling terrain with good sight lines, the brakes are sufficient and an upgrade to a 200mm rear rotor and ceramic pads would bring the performance of the Code Silvers up a few notches.
The SRAM X0 Eagle drive train is a nice high-end choice and I thought the 10-52T gear ratio on the stock cassette was great for a lightweight e-bike. I had no issues with the derailleur or chain. I really enjoyed the new Pod shifting controller. It was easy to actuate, low profile, unobtrusive and smooth. I will note that the bolts attaching the front chainring to the Bosch Praxis crank arm came loose and are annoying to tighten because two tools are required.
The tire spec is lightweight, but I found performance lacking. I run Continentals in the same tread pattern on my personal bike and I love them. Unfortunately, the tires that are spec’d are in the lightest “trail” casing and “endurance” compound, meaning they are meant to be light and fast rolling. These would probably be ideal tires for Sedona or other fast rolling places without a lot of sharp rocks, but for the North Shore, this combination is too fragile and doesn’t provide good grip in wet or slippery conditions. I stretched out the sidewall on my front tire on the second ride and expect that most riders would need to replace these stock tires early on. I think a grippier compound for the rear tire would also help with uphill traction in looser conditions.
The rear brake line was slightly too long and it rubbed on the spokes of the rear wheel. I pushed it in several times but the cable worked itself back out during suspension activation. Despite very little exposure to water and winter conditions, I’ve also noticed some rust starting on a few bolts.
Ride Feel – Power and Assist
I like the natural ride feel of Bosch motors. Faster cadence is queen for getting the most out of the motor, faster than I would typically settle into on my analogue bike. For technical climbing, you’ve got to keep on top of shifting and maintain momentum to keep that cadence high. Maintaining momentum and cadence in technical climbing can be challenging and requires good timing of pedal strokes and strategic use of braking, especially in switchbacks, as well as more anticipation of line choice and a good looking-ahead habit. I don’t find that the SX motor offers quite enough assistance for slow pedaling and power moves in those situations, without some adjustment to riding style to maximize cadence, speed and use braking for control while pedaling. Maintaining traction in technical and loose uphills also requires attention. I found the bike climbed better while seated to maintain weight over the rear tire (where the power is being applied) or the bike could spin out. The hard compound rear tire likely contributed to that. The Fluid VLT is still a decent strong climber with the power off on lower angle climbs, roads or double track if you were to drain the battery completely.
Ride Quality Difference on a Lightweight vs Full Powered E-bike
I found the Norco Fluid VLT rode more like an analogue bike with assistance, than a full powered e-bike with a smaller motor. There are significant differences in both the climbing and descending experiences. Climbing on a lightweight e-bike, and specifically on the Fluid VLT, requires an understanding of maintaining cadence and active gear shifting on the bike, line selection and traction control and is an engaging and active experience. On a full powered e-bike, it is possible to approach a steep section of trail and just throw the bike into turbo to get up – the motor assistance level is used as a secondary shifter and a rider can get away with low cadence or little shifting. For new mountain bikers without experience in frequent gear and effort shifting to maintain cadence and momentum, a full powered e-bike may be a friendlier entrance to the sport that skips some of that learning curve, but will also mask this lack of skill. An analogue bike comes with a mandatory learning curve; the consequences are flailing and sometimes falling on your ass. A lightweight e-bike does not have the torque to overcome bad gearing and cadence choices. Moving faster, but still needing to stay on top of shifting, traction and line control makes the climb extremely engaging and fun, but there is a learning curve involved. The skills a rider develops riding a lightweight e-bike will translate well back to riding an analog bike (or any bike). A full powered e-bike will also offer considerably more range and assistance and opens up new climbing challenges. If you want to ride for as long as possible with max speed or tackle super steep uphills, a lightweight e-bike won’t offer that.
To maximize ride time on a lightweight e-bike the rider should expect to work. The battery is a supplement, you still need to show up. The overall effort is still lower than an analogue bike, but that’s not a bad thing.
In our terrain, it's hard to find a mellow climb unless we take a social spin up the road. On singletrack, the uphill is always going to be high effort. From our house, I have a route that goes through the neighbourhood, up the climb trail (on Mt Seymour -Ed) and then gives me an option of a few descent trails and the whole loop is around an hour. It’s a perfect lunch lap. I like to time myself to the top of the climb and a good time is around 43 minutes. My heart rate hovers in the 152-158 range for most of the climb. That’s on the upper end of the aerobic zone for me and tipping into threshold. On the Norco VLT the same lap is 10-15 minutes shorter and my heart rate on average is 15-20 beats lower, keeping me in the upper end of zone 2 and lower end of aerobic training. If I hammer on the Norco VLT, I can get my heartrate up into the high 140s and 150s pretty easily, but I have to make a focused effort to do that. It's been a while since I’ve really done any dedicated and planned training, but it's recent enough in my memory to know that higher efforts aren’t always better. There is a lot of fitness gains to be made in the zone 2 and aerobic zones, with less fatigue. Riding amped into threshold is tiring but tiring does not always mean better fitness gains. I used to road bike to get my zone 2 and aerobic rides in because it is SO hard to get those rides mountain biking in my area. Lightweight e-bikes really open up the possibilities to get those base fitness rides in while still mountain biking.
There is a time and place for a heavy sled of a bike that erases chunky trails. That’s not my preferred feeling for riding most of the time. I’m definitely not skilled enough to full throttle every trail like a race run, or maybe just old enough and cautious enough to have a healthy amount of fear and love of braking. Some people are stoked on how a full powered 60lb eMTB descends like a rocket, but it's not my preference. I like to enjoy the trail, savour the feeling of my tires hitting the berm just right, compress and unweight to float over obstacles, make the occasional small double or turn the big ones into fun rollers and pops, appreciate the textures below and around me and the feeling of sliding maybe just a tiny bit too much and catching at the right time. To fully immerse myself in my ride I need to have control over my bike, know it will stop when I want it to, be able to shift it with my hips and get over the front to really handle it when necessary. The weight of a full-powered e-bike makes this really challenging for me. My personal theory is that women ride with an emphasis on using their hips more than upper body. I find that the heavy centre of gravity on a full powered e-bike makes it really hard to use my hips to move the bike around; it feels too weighty and sluggish in lateral movement, and too fast in forward momentum on steeps. The 43 pounds of the Norco VLT is only about 10 pounds more than my regular ride and I felt like I could descend a lot more like I would on an analogue bike. The additional weight does speed the bike up on descents a little and having a lightweight motor makes it easier to get a little extra speed for jumps, drops or doubles on the trail. There is more rattle with the extra weight and motor, but I would still place the lightweight e-bike closer to analogue bike performance on descents than on the full-powered e-bike part of the spectrum. I didn’t feel like I needed to adjust my riding style much to account for the weight of the motor and battery.
I’m really happy to see more lightweight eMTBs being offered. They open up options for a lot of people who want some assistance but also still want a natural ride feel and a lighter weight bike for ease of maneuverability. The use cases for eMTBs are varied. The Fluid VLT is a great example of a bike that is perfect for riders who want to explore further, do a few extra laps or keep their overall effort to a more manageable level, but still have a natural feeling descent and put effort into the climbs. The Fluid is a trail bike really well suited to a rider who enjoys moderate terrain, with a focus on blue to black trails, or jumping, popping and flowy berm-railing rides. I felt very in control on the Fluid and never felt like the bike was riding me, except in very steep terrain. I also really enjoyed the high BB and confidence I felt clearing obstacles.
The Fluid could handle the steep and challenging when necessary, but it didn’t beg me to charge. The longer reach of the bike, brake spec and hard tire compound contributed to that feeling. A few spec changes could really help this bike shine in those more challenging conditions. If I was opting to ride the Fluid primarily in steep or technically challenging black to double terrain with tight turns, I would opt for a smaller frame size. The shorter reach would make it easier to maneuver quickly and keep my weight further over the front end, but a smaller size might reduce stability at speed. Riders looking for a bike specifically for steep and technical terrain would most likely steer towards the Range or another longer travel bike. The length of the Fluid offers incredible stability at speed and great suspension feel for pops and jumps, which I enjoyed the most in terrain with longer sight lines and slightly lower angle; exactly where this bike feels designed to fly.
The 2024 Norco Fluid VLT C1 140 retails at 12,100 CAD
Comments
Kelownarider
1 month ago
This is a really written piece. I also find the light ebikes to be a lot of fun because they respond to inputs more easily. What are your thoughts on lower travel to be a reason for this vs weight ?
For those of us that usually ride enduro type bikes 170mm travel, should we look at ebikes with a bit less travel to keep it feeling alive ?
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Tyler Maine
1 month ago
My partner rides the same bike as reviewed and her Enduro bike is the Evil Insurgent MX, while I ride the C2 (one step down in components) and my enduro bike is the new Knolly Chilcotin (both are 170 front and rear). We live in Smithers, so it's a mixed bag of riding but we've got big descents, steeps and everything else. The Fluids have surprised the heck out of both of us in just how capable they are as we've ridden all of the same trails at nearly the same paces, so I'd put money on travel efficiency and good geo. We had the previous generation of Norco Sight VLT C2s before going to the Fluids and weight was one of the biggest factors in going to the smaller bikes - 12+ pounds isn't insignificant and it made them ride a lot more naturally to what we are used, but with added assist. My biggest day was 29km with 1490m of climbing and there was still battery left - the lightweights are definitely more about paying attention the power you are using vs turbo all day on the bigger bikes. I hope that helps?
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Karin Grubb
1 month ago
@tyler Maine - thanks for adding your personal experience in! I’m curious what size she’s riding vs height? I think for me a smaller frame size and stickier tire compound would make the bike feel way more comfy in the steeps. It’s interesting how the recommended sizing is so long, but I think that makes sense for a trail bike. If intended use case is a bit rowdier I’d make my sizing choice based on geo and reach specs over the recommended sizing chart.
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Tyler Maine
1 month ago
@karin Grubb - You and her are likely similarly proportioned at 5'9" but I don't know on your wingspans vs leg lengths. On her Size 3, she's got the seat a little forward on the rails and is running an SQlab 12 degree backsweep bar to shorten that reach up. The wheelbase has been good, but we've definitely dialed in the reach. A few bikes ago she was on the Medium HighTower (generation before yours) and the seat was way back and the bar was straighter. At 5'11" I went with the recommendations and choice Size 4, but after a season of riding, I'd agree with you of trail riding vs highly dymanic riding. On her Size 3, I feel like I can make the bike dance, vs plow on mine. Again though, the travel has yet to be an issue on the trails/descents up here. Given the chance to choose again, for me I'd likely go Size 3 (with the Knolly Chilcotin, I sized down and it's still a pretty big bike, but it sure is a good time).
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Pete Roggeman
1 month ago
Nice to see your name in the comments, Tyler!
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Karin Grubb
1 month ago
Thanks for the positive feedback. I think weight (for me personally) has more impact on the responsiveness of the bike as well as the distribution of that weight. Longer travel bikes can also feel really different based on suspension set-up. I find the 150/140 of the Fluid a really nice amount of suspension for most riding - and I prefer more if I want to do consistently gnarlier riding or park.
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Coiler
1 month ago
There seems to be quite a few issues for a 12k bike. The brake line issue in particular speaks to some worrying quality control. And those codes should be absolutely powerful enough right off the bat, even with a slightly heavier bike. And rusting and loosening bolts are big red flag for me.
The tire spec is a bit of a question mark to me, not sure why you’d spec an E bike with a fast rolling light tread with lower grip. Not necessarily an issue, just a bit of an odd decision.
The fox fork is annoying, but that’s a fox issue than Norco. How can this still be happening, there are so many complaints about this and it keeps continuing. Love my fox suspension, but get it together!
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Jenkins5
1 month ago
The Fox thing is a head scratcher....After the massive amount of X2 issues, and continued oil issue in the forks, they still get top spec....So many other suspension brands out there that deserve a shot. I dumped Fox from my personal bikes a long time ago.
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Karin Grubb
1 month ago
There were a some small issues that I hope were anomalies. For riders who regularly swap their own parts in, I think the lower end spec of this bike offers pretty good value with the carbon front and same motor and battery set-up. How much a rider expects to swap on a new bike is personal - I know a lot of people who immediately swap brakes, stem, bars etc to their personal favs but I would assume most riders want a ready to go ride with only a few things to swap. I’d really like to see that tire spec change, I think it would make a huge difference.
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Grinder
1 month ago
Many great insights here into the performance of a low weight, lower powered e-bike. I’ve rented full powered e-bikes as an alternative to shuttling and my experience is similar, with brain and upper body fatigue setting in well before my legs and cardio gave out. The idea of a bike that allows me to stay in zone 2 while still enjoying the challenges of a good technical climb is intriguing. Sounds perfect for recovery rides!
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JVP
1 month ago
This was a really good and thoughtful review, nicely done!
Crazy expensive build specs with mediocre brakes make me scratch my head, I just don't get it. Norco certainly does recommend longer sizes than most brands. On my own e-bike (very much a secondary ride) I sized down to keep things lively, as I was between sizes.
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roil
1 month ago
Great writing. I really enjoyed the read. Lightweight/low power ebikes sound like the most appealing of the bunch. I suspect the line between lightweight and full power will shrink in the future with the introduction of lighter and more powerful batteries and motors.
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Karin Grubb
1 month ago
@roil I totally agree! I think we will see more lightweight with higher torque, but unless battery capacity improves that would also make power management that much more important!
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Anthony Schroeder
4 weeks, 2 days ago
This is going to be somewhat counter intuitive and stupid sounding, but light eMTBs are basically only useful as MTBs, for all the good and bad that that is. Give a little boost here and there, extend bike days, etc.
Full fat eMTBs are really the SUV of the bike world, and best shine as single bike do-it-all commuters. And honestly, cars have suspension, motorbikes have suspension, commuting bikes can use suspension, especially in the US where infrastructure is truly awful.
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Jotegir
4 weeks, 2 days ago
I saw Trek's totally racked, lighted, and fender-ed up Powerfly Equipped FS at the local shop a few months ago and thought it was one of the most interesting ebikes on the floor. Geometry is enough to have a bit of fun if desired but really that's about the sweetest commuter you could have. If battery tech develops to the point people are able to regularly do rides north of 100k on these things, that'll be pretty next level.
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Anthony Schroeder
4 weeks, 2 days ago
This is absolutely true. Though tbh, I don't really think most people need batteries beyond what exists today. There are not too many folks that can do a routine 50k one way each day. I have a 500 WH battery on a dyi emtb, and I've done 50 miles on it same trip exactly once. But still I like seeing batteries get lighter 100%.
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XXX_er
1 month ago
I don't get light e-bikes and like the people who know they don't like e-bikes but still read E-bike articals and then whine
I'm too stupid to just not read the artical
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Sethimus
1 month ago
this bike has a 400wh battery with 11.1ah capacity, not 400ah. who proof read that?
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jhtopilko
1 month ago
Looks like decent numbers, I'd apreciate them without the motor.
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XXX_er
1 month ago
Duh, you probably want to read about bikes without motors
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Jotegir
1 month ago
It's too bad the regular Fluid missed the development cycle by a tiny bit and we don't have matching geometry between the eeb and regular versions. I believe I was told the Fluid carbon is out in favour of the new Optic, which is close to this albeit high pivot and less travel. From a branding perspective I find the carbon fluid a bit odd, perhaps it only existed to allow the VLT to come out in carbon.
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BarryW
1 month ago
Bicycles yes.
When you get a review like this that reads as half justification for said motorcycle I'm funding myself less and less interested in North Shore Motorcycle 'Bikes'.
This review spent half the time talking about the motor and power. That's how you know it isn't a bicycle anymore.
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Frorider
1 month ago
Counterpoint: yes, she went into detail on the motor / cadence behavior but she did so after creating a perspective early on in the review that high power ebiking in turbo mode endlessly is kinda boring. In fact I’m sure some readers are itching to respond to her honesty by saying ‘why not get the unfiltered satisfaction of riding a real bicycle?’
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Sweaman2
1 month ago
I'm not a fan of e-bikes but I agree that I thought this piece was really well written - except can we please drop the term analogue bike... it's a bike or an e-bike. Analogue makes my teeth itch especially as even "analogue" bikes can now include electric shifters... " .
I've never ridden anything with a motor but even lifting friends e-bikes has made me appreciate how heavy the big ones really are. The nuance around the different experiences was refreshing compared to some of the other stuff which just implies it's all fantastic all the time.
The comments around Fox Forks are interesting... how many riders would just think it's a bad fork? How many are fortunate to have multiple (near identical) forks and be able to say one isn't like the rest.. Between that and the (now mostly fixed) Rear X2 issues I find myself now mostly trying to avoid this brand.
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Cooper Quinn
1 month ago
"acoustic bike" has to take the cake for terms I dislike the most, though.
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Jerry Willows
1 month ago
how about meat engine?
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XXX_er
1 month ago
I think meat engine is not redeeming in any way
XXX_er
1 month ago
YMMV but I think acoustic is funny
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Jotegir
1 month ago
Acoustic bike is a great descriptor. And if it has battery shifting, suspension, dropper, etc., well, that's acoustic-electric. If the full powered ebikes are the equivalent of a solid body electric guitar, are these SL ones the equivalent of one of those fancy nylon stringed, hollow body electrics a la Tim Henderson?
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XXX_er
1 month ago
if you don't like E-bikes, have never ridden one , are hung up on terminology, what possible good is your post other than your ability to lift heavy items ?
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Karin Grubb
1 month ago
I don’t feel like we’ve found the perfect term to identify normal 100% human-powered mtbs either, but I needed a differentiation when discussing concepts. We’re at stone king club week in Europe right now (all human powered and running out of power 😂) and batted around the term ME-bike…. Better?
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Pete Roggeman
1 month ago
I just think it's best to keep it simple. Bikes. Ebikes. Mountain bikes. E-Mountain Bikes. End of story.
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Skooks
4 weeks, 2 days ago
How about 'Bike'?
Really enjoyed the article BTW, even though I have no interest in an motorized MTB.
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XXX_er
1 month ago
duh because its a artical about an e-bike
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Jotegir
1 month ago
Regardless of whether the reviewer is writing about an eeb or a meatbike, if a component is fully integrated into the experience to the degree the bosch stuff is here (alternative examples from the non-eeb arena are gearbox bikes, digit's suspension system, or the supre drive), I'd expect a competent reviewer to spend considerable time on those things because they provide an inherent and mandatory part of the experience that if a would-be consumer reads the review and decides "oh, I'd hate that if it was on my bike", they can move on because there's nothing they can do about it. It's not like our reviewer spent six paragraphs describing a handlebar that anybody could swap without issue.
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pedalhound
1 month ago
If you know this is an ebike review, why even read it if you don't like ebikes? Don't like it, don't read it...move on.
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XXX_er
1 month ago
Careful to not let the door hit you in the ass on the way out
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Karin Grubb
1 month ago
20 minutes reading time is not a small investment so thanks for reading even though you are staunchly anti e-bike (for now??? ;)
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