EDITORIAL
Never Charge Alone
Normal Charging Procedures
My daughter and I go night riding a couple of times a week for five to six months of the year. My wife commutes on her bike almost every day. Between the three of us, our arsenal of light systems is deep and some days we can be charging six front lights and a few rear blinkies at a time.
Every one of those light systems gets regularly used in the pouring rain. A few of them have had more than one unplanned embrace of the rooted and rocky North Shore trail surface. We recognize the risks of a battery being compromised and we have some stringent charging rules. We only charge the lights when we're home. We charge with the lights on a metal baking sheet or glass stove top. There's a small fire extinguisher nearby.
Paranoid much? On top of the fact that I read the news, I've dumped a fire extinguisher into a burning 8-cell lithium-ion light battery after it went full thermal runaway during charging. And if Ian is reading this, yes I still remember that you ran out the front door without so much as a heads up that your workbench was aflame.
I ask a lot from my light systems both in terms of the terrain I ride...
...and the weather I ride in. The L&M Seca 2000 has been a stalwart for three years.
Expectations Vs. Incident
How long should a cycling light system last? I've never seen a company publish any information on the subject. In my experience, the battery degrades past a usable runtime before anything else becomes an issue. That's usually after years of use. When a light that used to run for an hour-thirty on high will only dish out 45 minutes it's probably due for retirement.
An exceptional case, was my Light And Motion Seca Comp 2000 that decided to end itself after having only been in use for a little over three years. It's an abnormal end compared to the other light systems I've had from Light And Motion (L&M), NiteRider, Bontrager, and Blackburn but I understand that shit happens when you take batteries out into dank, dark, dreary forests. I'm not targeting this specific product, rather I'm advocating better charging practices.
I find myself balancing expectations tamed by the weather I ride in and the unplanned dismounts that happen...
...against experiences with products like this Bontrager Ion 800 R from 2017 that still sees very regular use on my wife's commuter.
I was working on my latest NSMB submission with my lights charging on the stovetop when I started doing the math on how long my Seca had been flashing plugged in. At least an hour longer than the regular 4-hour charge time with a Micro USB fast charger, maybe two? But the light was still flashing in charge mode.
With my paranoia well established, I walked over to check on it and the light was so hot to the touch that I put on an oven mitt to comfortably unplug it. After letting it cool for a few minutes I turned it on to test it. First, the indicator glowed green as I would expect. Then after about 5 seconds, the indicator started flashing red, and curling tendrils of vapour started lazily folding out from around the lens. I shut it off immediately and retired it.
Seca (née Taz) 2000. Dropping into Lower Crippler at night is scary.
Seca (née Taz) 2000. Smoking-hot light on the baking sheet is scarier.
I love the Seca 2000. It's a fantastic bar-mounted light and the current sale price of 170 USD is very reasonable for the runtime, beam pattern, and brightness. I've also only had good experiences with Light And Motion products in the past. The Clairebarian and I have both put this unit hard into the ground on more than one occasion and it's been out on the road in multiple atmospheric rivers on the control arm of my old cargo bike.
In other words, it had a hard life and I'm not claiming that it owed me anything. Rather, my takeaway is that if shit can go sideways with a top-quality light that's only a few years old, it can happen with any light system and indeed any battery I take into the forest with me.
Never leave them charging alone.
Height - Steve Buscemi-ish
Wait - Patiently
Ape Index - T-Rex
Age - The same as DOS
Favourite Trail(s) every week - Pipeline (thank you Ken!) to Lower Crippler (thank you Andy!)
Favourite Song(s) this week - I'm Your Man. Nick Cave (covering Leonard Cohen)
Favourite Colour - Cosmic Lilac
Bar Width - It depends
Reach & Stack & ETT - It depends
Crank Length - 175mm except when it's 170mm
Wheel Size - Hot For Mullets
Comments
Vincent Edwards
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Good safety recommendations!
I’ve had really good experiences with the Seca 2500 over the past 3-4 years.
I bought two Taz 1200 lights around the same time, which have not been as excellent.
I’ve never gotten more than 45 minutes runtime on high, and now both lights blink for a while before charging normally when I plug them in. After reading this article, I will likely retire them. (I just ordered a Lezyne 1800+ and 1400+ to replace them… in the all-in-one segment they have a much better cost to lumen / runtime than most. I’m looking forward to seeing if they live up to their claims)
I wish more light makers would make the batteries replaceable. How hard would it be to shrink wrap the cells and use and internal wire harness to plug them in? (And design a serviceable housing) …It seems like a shame to toss the LEDs and housing from an otherwise good light just because the batteries are shot. And with inevitable yearly battery technology advancements, light makers could offer customers upgraded capacity and runtime as it becomes available.
I use an Outbound helmet light and recommend that unit highly. More than 50% of the folks I ride with use the same light, and many have their bar light too. Everyone I talk to loves them.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 3 weeks ago
“…now both lights blink for a while before charging normally when I plug them in. After reading this article, I will likely retire them.”
Yeah, retirement time.
I’ve ridden with lots of folks with Outbound lights. Good patterns, good customer service when it has been needed (electronics in the woods). Haven’t used them myself but have no problem recommending them based on what I’ve seen.
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Justin White
9 months, 3 weeks ago
That blink might just be the safeties. Do they blink when plugged in at room temp? Or only when plugged in immediately after a ride when still warm? If the latter, it could just be the BMS telling you that it's waiting for the temp to come down (pretty much every power tool battery charger will do this). If the former, it blinks when room temp or even just a little cold, then yeah, I'd start shopping.
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pbass
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Most lithium ion cells are good for 500 charge cycles.
You can extend this dramatically by doing a few things like not leaving it more than mid charged during storage.
Heat is the killer for a lithium ion batteries life.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 3 weeks ago
I wonder how that 500x cycles translates to the MTB application though? Often in the shoulder season those lights are only getting maybe 1/2 a cycle.
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Allen Lloyd
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Someone told me years ago to fully drain the battery every 4th or 5th charge to make them last longer. I have a helmet light that is 10 years old now that I used that methedology and it has lost some but not much run time.
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pbass
9 months, 3 weeks ago
That doesn't apply to lithium ion....the don't have a memory effect.
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Squint
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Most modern batteries can be permanently damaged by full discharge, the electronics will generally turn off the load before this happens. The "full drain" mantra is very dated, from when we all had NiCad batteries. Interesting how it has lasted.
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Skooks
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Good advice about not fully discharging your Li battery. My understanding is that most good quality multi cell battery packs have a bms that will equalize the cell voltages when doing a full charge.
Pete Roggeman
9 months, 3 weeks ago
That's right. Don't discharge lithium batteries fully, don't leave charged for a week or more at higher than 80%, and it's also better not to just leave it always at 80%. Better to sometimes leave it at 60 or 65, other times 70 or 80.
This is true for all lithium batteries: e-bikes, electric cars, air pods, laptops, etc.
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Justin White
9 months, 3 weeks ago
It's very hard to fully discharge a battery in normal use. Any half-way decent light or other device is going to shut itself down, or (even it's crappy) just stop working because the voltage drops too low for the device to function, well before the cell's voltage is low-enough to harm the cell itself. If you're doing DIY stuff and direct-wiring raw cells, yeah, be careful. Though if you're building your own packs then you should be using a good BMS to handle that stuff for you, or you're basically asking for a house fire. But the average consumer doesn't have to worry about fully draining batteries, just use your device until it indicates the batteries are flat and/or shuts itself off, then recharge with a good charger.
They don't have memory, why would you need to vary the long-term charge state? You really expect people to continually monitor the state and take it off the charger 4/5ths of the way through, and then 3/5ths the next time? Then remember to put it back on for a full charge only right before use? Maybe if you want absolute maximum capacity for the maximum amount of cycles, but this is getting marginal, especially since modern BMSes don't really charge the cells "fully" anyway, for this exact reason of maximizing capacity life.
Even leaving them on the charger isn't really terrible for capacity, either. A good charger/BMS will back off the current as it approaches full, stop and monitor, then apply minimal current as needed to keep it "full". Worst-case (if the cells are in good shape and the charger/BMS is decent) is that they accumulate some partial cycles and after months sitting on the charge it adds up to one or two of the ~500 cycles a cell can take without significant capacity loss. This is a trade-off for knowing it's very close to max charge when you need it.
Yes, an old cell can go bad and runaway thermally and shoot fire, but so can a new cell, so you kind of always have to trust the charger/BMS. Perhaps another reason to prefer devices with removable cells or external packs: so you can charge them on a really good charger, instead of the bare minimum circuit jammed into a package often not much bigger than the cell and optics alone.
Of course, because modern chemistries do have such low self-discharge, it's also perfectly fine to take them off soon after reaching your desired state of charge, and you can be pretty sure they'll be close to that state even after months sitting. So you can satisfy the "avoid house fires" rule along with always having fairly well-charged devices,
badgerracer
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Very true, to the point where a lot of electronics manufacturers have settings that cap charge at 80% to prolong battery lifespan
rotorburn
9 months, 3 weeks ago
It's rather different for LiIon batteries - you don't want to discharge too low or charge them up too high. You can squeak a little more runtime out if you charge to a higher voltage, but your battery life goes down a bunch.
What I run on my bar is a standard 18650 pack (6 cells) with high capacity cells - they you can charge it conservatively and run it on a pretty high mode while not worrying about runtime when you're in the middle of nowhere ... alone ... at night .. in the rain.
Another benefit is you can take a spare 4-cell pack as a backup. Those weigh almost nothing and can be strapped anywhere.
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Justin White
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Except you don't really control that too low or too high on most devices. Anything with an internal charging-circuit/BMS is going to charge to whatever voltage range the manufacturer chose for their own power/life trade-off. Same with discharge, the circuit is going to monitor the voltage to keep the cell alive and shut itself down before you can fully discharge to the point of damage. This is the art and science of maximizing runtimes and lifetimes: good cells and smart management systems, and making trade-offs based on them.
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pbass
9 months, 3 weeks ago
A cycle normally refers to a full charge and discharge. Its just a metric for the longevity of the cell.
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Justin White
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Pretty sure it's cumulative. Two discharges to 50% and the subsequent 2 recharges to full is approximately equivalent to a full 0% discharge and full recharge. At least for the common contemporary li-ion chemistries.
So would take about 1000 shoulder season 1/2 cycles to hit that 500-cycle benchmark.
Another big killer to keep in mind is to not charge when they're hot OR cold. If you've gotten in the habit of charging immediately after a ride, make sure it's not icy cold from perhaps being left on the bike on the rack for the drive home, or left in the cold car overnight and you remember the next morning that it needs a charge.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 3 weeks ago
“Pretty sure it's cumulative. Two discharges to 50% and the subsequent 2 recharges to full is approximately equivalent to a full 0% discharge and full recharge. At least for the common contemporary li-ion chemistries.”
Cheers, this is what I was wondering.
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Velocipedestrian
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Thanks for the terrifying PSA, sometimes I need a scary story from someone else to avoid writing my own.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 3 weeks ago
We all need reminders sometimes. It’s easier the plug-in and forget.
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woodyak
9 months, 3 weeks ago
I've been doing night riding with lights since the early days of clunky Halogen lights with water cage Nickel Cadmium batteries. You'd be lucky to get more than an hour of charge before you had to crawl out of the woods with a trickle of light. Boy we've come a long way! Talk about overheating, you couldn't touch the lamps with your bare hands during mid ride w/o getting a pretty bad burn. I had one of the water bottle batteries melt the plastic casing while charging and it sparked like mad when I disconnected it. Sketchy!
I've been super stoked on the Outbound Lighting lights. I picked up two of the first Hangover lights when it came out about 3 years ago. I've had a couple of minor problems that they fixed very quickly and at no cost. Amazing customer service. I picked up the handlebar ones when they came out as well. It's great not having any external batteries and having all your lighting needs met. The beam pattern makes a huge difference. My previous light setup was with the Exposure Diablo. I could get away w/o using external batteries and have a very bright light setup but I would get mega tunnel vision with that flashlight beam and they had their own problems.
My only complaint with my setup would be that the Hangover could use just a little more power. I don't need mega-lumens just about 10% to 15% more light would do the trick. Their bar light is crazy powerful and you barely can tell your helmet light is on at times. They are coming out with a new light this December that should be just what I'm looking for. Basically, the Hangover with the next level up battery so they can make it run brighter. Overall I highly recommended setup for anyone looking for lights.
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Curveball
9 months, 3 weeks ago
I have the Outbound Trail Evo and just waiting for the new Portal light for my helmet.
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Justin White
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Portal is honestly what always should have been in the Evo Package. The one valid complaint about the combo set was that the runtimes don't line up. The Trail Evo runs about 50% longer than the Hangover in most modes, including their vaunted adaptive mode. So the pair ended up being limited by the Hangover, because it's much nicer to run with only a helmet light versus only a bar light.
Portal "fixes" that with the big cell, getting most all the runtimes within a few percent of the Trail Evo, making them a perfect match: two and half hours on adaptive is perfect for most rides for most people. If you know you're going to stretch the ride, just leave it on medium from the start and get a solid 4 hours.
I don't even own a single Outbound light, but many hours riding in between various combos of Hangover and Trail Evo and their ridiculous spreads of insanely useful light, I'll gladly declare them the the best trail riding lights around.
@woodyak, not sure the Portal is going to be significantly brighter, I think they've got their power and optics dialed and are the big cell is mostly for the runtime. I could be wrong, maybe even hope I'm wrong, because if my current lights haven't acted weird again before the Portal arrives, which would prompt me to buy something else ASAP, I'll probably get one!
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Konda
9 months, 3 weeks ago
I usually charge my lights at work, right by my desk. I can keep a close eye on them there.
Never, EVER charge lights overnight, and especially not any of the chineese ebay specials, which saw me over until I could commit to a good Exposure set-up.
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finbarr
9 months, 3 weeks ago
I definitely don't take any of these precautions, but I'm going to start. Thanks for the PSA. It never occurred to me to charge them in a metal tray for easy disposal.
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Mnguyen1224
9 months, 3 weeks ago
I wish there were good options for 18650 battery lights. I have a few nice headlamps for camping that all use 18650 cells. I have spares and a nicer charger for them. Plus it’d be nice to be able to carry an extra cell on a ride to just swap when dead. If anyone knows of any good MTB or commuting lights that use those please share
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Andrew Major
9 months, 3 weeks ago
I’ve seen flashlights with this setup but not anything that would be bright enough for me for night riding.
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yardrec
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Serfas makes a field swappable mtb light that I like. True1300. 18650s are cool!
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Justin White
9 months, 3 weeks ago
I'd argue that the problem with flashlights isn't that they're not "bright enough", but rather that they don't have the optics we want on a bike: they don't put the brightness in the most useful place.
I have a few single-18650 torches that pump out plenty bright 1500+ lumens, but it's generally a round spot beam. I even have a single-21700 (same voltage output, just more capacity) that can shoot a full kilometer. I even confirmed it across a lake. Absolutely wild to see trees over 950 meters (according to Google Earth's measuring tool) away get noticably lit up, especially when bouncing it off the water too! But I would never use something like that on a bike. "Brightness" is not always the issue.
Those round spot beams might be OK on a helmet light, but just can't compete with the useful beam spread of truly good custom optics like Outbound or even Gloworm, for either helmet, or especially for a bar mount.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 3 weeks ago
“I'd argue that the problem with flashlights isn't that they're not "bright enough"…”
Bad choice of words on my part. I meant, as you note, that they wouldn’t illuminate enough of the trail.
Have you tried the Lynx lights by any chance? I’m don’t need a ‘daylight’ level system but I’ve heard very mixed reviews on whether they’re ‘enough’ for enjoyable night riding.
Sort of like a flashlight with swappable batteries but more bike-friendly optics.
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Justin White
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Not yet, but Lynx and now Bookman (that knob for tuning brightness on the fly to maximize life, so smart!), are on my shortlist. And since my 5 and 6 year-old Bontragers are starting to act weird around charging (sometimes have to charge, discharge partially, then charge again to get it to stop indicating it's only got <10% left), I should probably grab one soon.
Was thinking Lynx Otus or Raven Double for my helmet, but can't find the blurb on their site about which had the wider beam and thus probably nicer for trail riding and tree skiing, should give them a call.
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brewtus
9 months, 3 weeks ago
I've been underwhelmed by the Lynx Otus. Great customer service, well made light, but it doesn't match the light output and pattern of the Bontrager Ion pro. It does fine as a bar light when there's snow on the ground and less light is needed. It's an awesome headlamp for non-biking activities though.
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Skooks
9 months, 3 weeks ago
I also have a Lynx Otis and I completely agree with you. It's a great head lamp but can't compare to a good purpose built bike light
GB
9 months, 3 weeks ago
My Fenix lights do exactly that . Use replaceable 18650 batteries. Its not super bright at 800 lumens. I use two lights. One on the bar . One on the brain bucket .
In theory any light can be taken apart and the old " most likely 18650" batteries replaced .
Good point illuminating us with the knowledge that lithium ion batteries can catch on fire! I always monitor results . I also check my batteries with a voltage meter . Feeling the batteries for how hot they get is an excellent option.
I don't night ride enough! It's a magical time to be on the trails .
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Andrew Major
9 months, 3 weeks ago
“I don't night ride enough! It's a magical time to be on the trails.”
Can never ride enough. 100%
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Martin
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Lezyne used to have the SuperDrive (700 lumens) with 18650 cells and the megaDrive (double 18650 cells joined together in a wrap), but that was around 2012-2013.
I bought mine used in 2015 and still use the original batteries as they still last quite a bit, but like Andrew, I always charge them where I can have an eye on them (like all the batteries I charge).
Funnily enough, back the Lezyne were selling the replaceable batteries as a feature ("Infinite light") and now that they're all integrated, they say that the feature is easy charging without needing to remove batteries.
I'd love to replace the 18650 cells in the Megadrive packs, but I'm also a bit paranoid about battery fires so when they'll be gone, unfortunately the light won't be usable. I've contacted Lezyne but they couldn't help since they're to old (they offered me a great deal on a new light but only in the US and I am in Canada).
They can be charged with a USB plug, but I bought a Nitecore charger and a few new 18650 batteries. Those lights still work perfectly (I have 4).
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Andrew Major
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Lezyne has a lot of positive feedback in terms of beam quality, brightness, runtime and quality for the price.
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Martin
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Yes they are well made and durable, easy to use, have good mounts. If they would bring back the interchangeable battery feature I’d buy new ones. I only use them in the winter for fat biking and I try all the batteries once early in the season to see how long they last so I can plan which ones last how long.
Heat is rarely an issue under 0C, but I prefer to have the most powerful batteries on the handlebar just in case. Oftentimes I use the MegaDrive on the handlebar at 800 lumens (mid) and SuperDrive at 400lumens on my helmet and it’s totally fine in the snow.
Fenix also have lights with replaceable 18650 batteries, but they get mixed reviews.
Thanks for the reminder about battery safety. I have an old safe that was given to me and that doesn’t get any use, and I think I might use it to store all my li-ion batteries, just as an added safety. That might be overkill, but I really don’t like house fires 😅
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Justin White
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Lynx OTG has a bunch that use swappable 18650s. BC designed and manufactured, too.
The Bookman Volume use swappable 21700s and has a slick "volume control" brightness/power knob.
(Edit: Volume uses 21700, not 18650, at 4Ah which is a good bit more than the ~3Ah of typical mid- range18650s. Might help explain the seemingly "too good to be true" runtime)
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Andrew Major
9 months, 3 weeks ago
I haven’t seen that Bookman light before, wow is that a clean looking design.
The output/runtime/weight is almost too good to be true? Would love to see one in person.
https://bookmanvisibility.com/en-us/products/volume-1500?variant=46779199652164
Love the battery swap option. I’d still ride with two lights for the redundancy but I’d love the peace of mind if an extra battery to swap.
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Justin White
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Oops, the Bookman doesn't use 18650s, it uses a 4AH 21700, somewhere around 30% more than common 18650s, that might explain the seemingly too optimistic runtime. Updated above.
Being able carry just a battery to extend runtime, instead of a whole other light, and still not deal with cables, has been high on my list for a while and now it seems to be available in (hopefully) really good lights.
But yeah, I'll still keep carrying my little 500 lumen with built-in bar mount as a "get home" savior if I break a main light or mount. Or to hand out to folks who forget to charge and lose a light after 45 minutes, which happens waaaay more often than me breaking anything, despite me breaking a couple few mounts in crashes (but no lights, knock wood).
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Andrew Major
9 months, 3 weeks ago
No different than the tools I carry. So rarely need them myself but I seem to use them a lot. That’s community.
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Mammal
9 months, 3 weeks ago
I use 2 x Lynx Raven Doubles for my night rides (one bar, one helmet), and those run off a single 18650 with pretty impressive run time. They're definitely not as bright as some of the units out there, but I find them adequate for full-speed riding in tech, and I love that I can just swap in another battery if there's an issue on the trail.
They also serve as unbeatable standard head lamps for camping, nordic skiing, etc, and have some nice features like a low setting that can be set to any desired intensity between super low to high. I can set both lights to as low as needed for climbing in the given conditions to conserve battery, then keep them on full for descents.
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Justin White
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Do you know which model: Otus, Raven, Airy, etc?
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Mammal
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Sorry, I edited my response. They're Raven Doubles.
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AndrewR
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Your wish is granted.....
Lynx OGT out of Nelson.
Circuits and batteries optimised for cold (don't know how - ask Dylan).
Helmet and bar mounts that are simple and work. The bonus is that each lamp is also an awesome head lamp when not being used as a bike light.
Raven for out right max power 1800 lumens @ 3.5 hrs. A good wide beam and the adjustable setting is easy to use. Emergency strobe if required.
Aurora for best all rounder; max power of 1200 lumens but also has Red LEDs for night work where keeping one's night vision might be important. White and Red have a tuneable level too.
Otus for the helmet 1500 lumens but a tuned combo of beam and flood. White only. Has a tuneable mode.
I am still swapping back and forth between Otus or Raven on bar or helmet but Otus ends up on the helmet most of the time.
They produce more than enough light and reach far enough to allow near day time speeds on fast blue trails.
They all run off the same batteries.
I use the Raven and Otus for night riding and carry my Aurora as a back up/ head lamp. Lynx sell spare batteries, so for longer trips I carry the wee waterproof case with an additional two charged batteries.
I have found that spending money on a battery conditioner-recharger is worth the extra $ for all rechargeable batteries.
I have been using this system (originally Raven only) for over three years now and have sold every other night riding light, and head lamp, that I own other than a couple of Magicshine SeeMee 200 'smart' rear lights that rotate across all our bikes.
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Martin
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Woohoo thanks for the recommendation!
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Andrew Major
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Thanks! I love the idea of being able to pack spare batteries.
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Skooks
9 months, 3 weeks ago
I built lights for myself and most of my friends back in the day. 6 volt lead acid gel cells and halogen bulbs that got hot enough to melt anything they touched, including reflectors. Any remember the retina ripper bulbs?
Ive got a collection of lights from various brands that all use external battery packs. They work great, and not having the weight of a battery on your helmet is nice. It's always a bit of a pain to deal with cables and connectors though.
I recently got an Outbound Evo for my bar light and it is excellent. Not the overall brightest light, but definitely the most useable beam pattern. Very well built too. I plan on getting their new helmet light when it comes out. I doubt I will use the external battery lights much after that.
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Perry Schebel
9 months, 3 weeks ago
oh man. recalling the early days of janky 1st gen BLT halogens w/ water bottle packs. certainly puts into perspective how good my wee outbound light is.
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fartymarty
9 months, 3 weeks ago
I've run one of these https://lumicycle.com/product/extender-6-8ah-li-ion-battery/ for 10+ years - and at least weekly over the last 6-7 years. It still gets me thru 2-3 hour night rides. I'm surprised it's still running.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 3 weeks ago
I only recently retired my old NiteRider systems. I don’t miss extension cords at all, even though that’s the way to get the lightest possible head unit.
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fartymarty
9 months, 3 weeks ago
I run a Lumicycle on the bars (with the 6.8Ah battery strapped under the bars) and a Lezyne 1600 up top.
Also not a fan of cables however wouldn't say no to a lighter helmet light with a cable.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 3 weeks ago
I ride with a pack so it’s a choice. Extension-cable management to a hip pack or jersey pocket… all of my friends who never wear a pack, even on wet winter rides, have switched to self-contained lights.
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Vik Banerjee
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Great reminder. Batteries are bombs. As soon as anything seems off it's time to recycle them safely.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 3 weeks ago
If in doubt throw them out (recycle them).
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Offrhodes42
9 months, 3 weeks ago
My typical ride time is 5am. So, I too use my lights for much of the year. I have run mostly MagicShine lights over the past 10 years and have not had any batteries melt down. I do have two older batteries that just sit on the shelf now as they started to dies around the 45 minute mark on only low or high. I guess I should be bringing those to a recycling/hazardous waste place. I do have the option to see if the local Batteries+ store could replace the cells. Not sure that is the lowest cost route to go though. Has anyone else gone that route and replaced the cells in an old battery pack?
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Andrew Major
9 months, 3 weeks ago
I know folks who’ve bought new battery packs for old lights. And I know folks who’ve managed to take apart all-in-one lights to just replace the cell, so anything is theoretically possible.
It used to be folks upgraded when their systems were dead. But most people I know have had good/good enough lights for a while now so it would be ideal to just do the cells.
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Vik Banerjee
9 months, 3 weeks ago
I have 2 $$ Dinotte LED light heads. They are ~10 years old so the original battery packs are toast. I ordered a fresh battery from Dinotte. I figure if I get another 5-10 years from the new pack it was worth it and I have 2 heads + 2 cables to work with in case one set dies.
After 15-20 years I won't feel bad about retiring the whole system.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Certainly the benefit of separate light/battery systems, or theoretically rebuildable systems.
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Ripbro
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Just bought a pair of Lezyne 1800 from a Canadian bike shop (bike zone) $120 each. They come recommended from a few buddies using them. I’m new to night riding so we will see how it goes
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Andrew Major
9 months, 3 weeks ago
What are you using for a helmet mount setup? GoPro mount and an adapter?
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Ripbro
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Cateye 800. Thanks for the charging tip. I’ll now keep an eye on them while charging:)
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Brad1000
9 months, 3 weeks ago
This comment has been removed.
Brad1000
9 months, 3 weeks ago
I run an older Lezyne 1300xxl as my bar light and I think these lights do not get enough praise. Runtime is great and the beam pattern is much better to my eye than most. Visibility on trail is better than lights with significantly more lumens in my opinion.
I've been eyeing the Outbound lights because they seem fantastic and I love all the info/education/geekyness they provide, but each time I go out at night I don't find my current set up lacking.
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fartymarty
9 months, 3 weeks ago
I've had an 1800i which died and now have a 1600i. Both have been good. The only downside is they are heavy for helmet lights. I do love the race function though. They're reasonably well built and good lumen for £££.
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BadNudes
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Sage wisdom. At best anything with a battery will eventually at some point become a dead-weight disappointment, an emergency blanket made of fishing net, at worst...
I replaced the batteries on my every-day bike with a bargain-bin Shimano generator hub and some low end B&M lights and am really loving it. I thought I might have problems going too slow on the climbs, but it was the descents that are the real problem! Slowing down on a climb usually means the lights start to dim gently, not usually a problem because you're not moving fast. On technical downhills where you're hard on the brakes, slowing almost to a stop to maintain control, your headlight is now a strobe light! Party!
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Andrew Major
9 months, 3 weeks ago
I’m so dyno-light hungry. I wasted hours (HOURS) looking an options for battery storage to get around the technical trail strobing.
I’d still run a brighter light on my helmet but I love the idea of never having to worry about running out of juice for the ride home or a long climb. It really opens up light management options.
Anyway, I don’t have a dyno system.
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bushtrucker
9 months, 3 weeks ago
I feel like you of all people would really appreciate a dynamo setup Andrew. Like they're obviously not the best for out and out trail use (getting better though) but for any other form of riding I can't imagine not having one.
Also, if you missed it SON just announced a new light with USB charging and a 10 watt buffer battery that works to even out the power supply at lower speeds. SON's beam shape hasn't previously been suited to off-road riding (I own 3 Edelux II's) but this light will have a high beam setting so I'm keen to see how that works off-road. Maybe there's a case for a review?
https://nabendynamo.de/en/new-edelux-headlight-with-high-beam-function-2/
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BadNudes
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Andrew, you have to try it, especially for your commuter or cargo bike! For me, the feeling of revelation on my first ride was on the same level as my first ride with a dropper post. No joke.
It's so nice, I'm especially enjoying it now thanks to daylight cravings time. Never having to remember to charge, to grab them on the way out, to bring them in from the cold garage, or even to just spend the few seconds it takes to strap lights on, just get on an go. My system is basically the cheapest available through LBS. This Shimano hub only outputs 1.5W but the lights are still plenty bright for offroad use when paired with a conventional-battery helmet light. The slow technical downhill strobing might be less offensive with a typical 3W hub, and the lights would be much brighter, but the light bushtrucker mentions might be the best solution.
One thing I'm very impressed with is the beam pattern, even with the cheap headlight I have. It's like the low power constraint forced them to really make the most of it with fancy curved mirrors and other magic. I can't believe similar lenses aren't more common on high powered battery lights.
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bushtrucker
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Stoked to hear someone else with the same experience. I think the dropper post is a great comparison (and one that might win over a few MTB'ers). I wouldn't got back to riding trail without a dropper just like I wouldn't got back to commuting without a dynamo.
Also good to know the Shimano hubs aren't junk. I've heard good things about SP's latest hubs too. My only personal exerience is with SON Dynamo's and given that experience (35,000km on the original bearings) they're what I'd reccomend.
As far as I know the mirrors used in these lights I think it's actually mostly to do with German StVZO/TA compliance. Two key points from that are;
> Bicycle headlamps may only put out a light density of 2.0 lux above 3.4 ° above the brightest spot in the beam.
and;
> The middle of the beam should at 5 m distance be at half the height of where it left the lamp.
More info here.
https://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/fiets/tests/verlichting_analyse/verkeersregels/de_stvzo/index_en.html#koplamp-richten
Suffice to say that to comply with these standards the lights beam must be reflected downwards to prevent blinding other road users. Obviously this works against the goals of trail riding at night which is pretty much as much as possible for as far as possible. It's also why I'm curious about the high beam setting on the new SON light. As it currently stands a dynamo light might make for a good secondary bar/fork mounted light but you'd still want something brighter off the helmet. The advanage of this setup is you can ride trail until the primary light is dead flat and still make it home. Maximises trail time and safety.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 3 weeks ago
I actually had a dyno on my cargo bike initially (Shimano hub) but had reliability issues down to wires/connectors, I think. Lamps weren’t the best anyway so was happy to swap for my plug-ins.
My commute is relatively short (to work or to anywhere I might be meeting someone for a beer) and I like being able to take my lights off (and in with me) when locking the bike anyway.
For me the real interest is the ‘free’ run time up fire roads or riding home.
Very interested in the SON with buffer setup.
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Maximum Radness
9 months, 3 weeks ago
I love Light & Motion, good people. If you email them, they can replace the battery and rebuild the case for you, on my third battery on my Taz 1500….
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Andrew Major
9 months, 3 weeks ago
No qualms with the folks at L+M. As noted, I recognize what these things go through, I’m amazed my older lights are still going as opposed to being mad about this Taz/Seca dying.
That’s said, the way it was smoking I suspect it needs more than a battery. Might reach out anyway, thanks!
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Guy Elliott
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Good PSA. Will try to be better but no doubt by December will be back to the plug ‘em in when I get home from the ride and unplug ‘em in the am routine.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 3 weeks ago
All about having a system!
I work on bikes a lot, so I’m all about the repetitive standard practices.
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Sean_D
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Thanks for the warning. How did you have your Seca mounted before it crapped the bed?
I got a Seca 2000 a few months ago and I love the light, but I'm not happy with the mounting options. The rubber strap mount tore after cranking it down one too many times to keep if from shaking out of position. While the strap style is convenient, the light is too heavy for that type of mount. I was somewhat happier with the GoPro adapter and a GoPro handlebar mount, though the little plastic adapter snapped when the light fell out of my bag on night. Now I'm trying to work out something a little more robust.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 3 weeks ago
NiteRider universal bar mount. I have a couple I scavenged from my old systems. It’s how I mount my Blackburn 1500 too. With use the straps eventually die.
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yardrec
9 months, 3 weeks ago
What do you think about the Seca 2000 for use on a helmet? Too heavy? Beam pattern?
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Andrew Major
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Beam pattern would be great, it's a bit on the porky side.
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Peter Horne
9 months, 3 weeks ago
Ammo box with a hole drilled in the lid for your charging lead. Blu tack around the small gap between cable and lid. If it can contain ammo cooking off, it's gonna be good enough for me.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 3 weeks ago
That's a great idea! (for anyone who has an ammo box kicking around)
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