2011 Turner 5 Spot DW Link NSMB Jeff Parker (15)
MIN MAX

Min-Max : Jeff's 2011 Turner 5 Spot

Words Andrew Major
Photos Jeff Parker
Date Aug 26, 2022
Reading time

I love the look of the high end alloy manufacturing. The complex CNC work Turner did around the rear triangle and pivots is almost Victorian steampunk." - Jeff

Head Turner

When I think of Turner bikes the first rig that always pops into my head is my friend Mark's 2005ish Horst-Link equipped rig. With raw aluminum tubes and a PUSH linkage upgrade, it's delicious. Sadly, Mark's Turner is instantly disqualified as a min-max rig due to its straight 1-1/8" steerer tube, even if he somehow sourced a sweet Fox 36 FIT RC2, EC34/EC34 -1° Angleset, and a 27.2mm dropper post and really modernized the look of the rig with a 1x drivetrain. For the record, that's not a dig on the aesthetics of Jeff's 2011 here, he's tried it both ways and the double chainring setup looks a lot cleaner.

Turner Bikes has been out of the full suspension game for couple years now, and Jeff's DW-Link 5 Spot relies on bushings for the linkages, so I was skeptical about this entry. But it's a great looking frame in my favourite Turner colour, and Jeff pointed out that Turner still stocks bushing kits for the 2009+ frames. If you contact them they should be able to lead you to pivot hardware as well. If you do have one of these rigs I'd recommend picking up a spare bushing kit (although they are off-the-rack IGUS bushings, so it's possible to order them from an industrial supplier as well).

Whether due to smaller batch numbers, higher tolerances, or weather conditions where they were most popular, Turner never suffered the complaints about bushings that dogged so many other applications. I'd still recommend regularly checking the pivot hardware for wear - if crap does get in the bushings the aluminum will get eaten faster than the IGUS material.

2011 Turner 5 Spot DW Link NSMB Jeff Parker (1)

Jeff runs a 23° back sweep Salsa Bend 2 alt-bar, at 760mm wide.

2011 Turner 5 Spot DW Link NSMB Jeff Parker (13)

This bicycle clearly sees a lot of blue skies in its second life. Jeff bought the frame used for $300.

2011 Turner 5 Spot DW Link NSMB Jeff Parker (10)

Jeff's bushing experience has been exceptional. He does take a few seconds to hit the grease ports with a shot of the good stuff after every few rides.

Min-Max submissions vary greatly from a few words and photos to deep dives into parts choices and anecdotes about special bits. There's quite a lot of DIY going on here, which I'll get to, plus the fact that Jeff's running a mini-mullet setup (27.5/26).Jeff sent me quite detailed thoughts on his bike, and I think he sums it up perfectly with this: "I love the look of the high end alloy manufacturing. The complex CNC work Turner did around the rear triangle and pivots is almost Victorian steampunk."

Jeff's thoughts on the fit of this bike could probably sum up most min-max projects we've seen to date, especially if riders have already upsized their frames and added an angleset:

"The geometry is a mixed bag. Head angle was pretty slack for its era, and is easily in the Trail category even now, which is how I use the bike. Seat tube angle is old school 72 degrees with the longer fork and 27.5 wheel, but I like that. It makes the bike more comfortable than the modern steep tubes on the rough-but-rolling terrain I tour on, and the hip to foot angle mimics my gravel and road bikes, making the transition between them easier. The frame is a large, but it is decidedly a medium by modern fit standards, and I do sometimes wish the reach were a bit longer. But if I ride it a bit more old school from further behind the saddle on descents, it works out ok."

2011 Turner 5 Spot DW Link NSMB Jeff Parker (15)

The best part of this min-max series, in my opinion, is seeing all the different places members of the NSMB community ride.

This 5 Spot started its new life as a frame only deal. Jeff bought it used for $300, "‘cause ya know 26 is dead", and I've been rolling that around in my head a bunch. I mean, in the insanely hot used bicycle market of the last couple years that sounds like a solid deal even with the geometry being a bit dated. At the same time the frame is over ten years old. Yes, it's easy to buy a new shock that fits and yes, it takes a tapered steerer fork so there are a plethora of 650b options. But keeping this frame going out on the trail, doing what it was born to do, almost seems like a community service.

If you noticed that the cable routing looks unique, that's not a Turner feature. Jeff didn't like the stock routing so he filed off the existing braze-ons and installed riv-nuts and p-clips for his preferred setup. His custom frame bag and downtube accessory mounting are also courtesy of extra hard points he added himself. Very neat. But, I'm giggling to myself right now as I type this, wondering how many NSMB readers will add some water bottle or accessory bosses to their aluminum frames next week. For the record, you can also securely mount that Fidlock bottle to your Kona Process using double-sided 3M tape.

2011 Turner 5 Spot DW Link NSMB Jeff Parker (6)

The 5 Spot looks a lot better with two chainrings than as a 1x bike due to the manipulation of the BB area to make it compatible with a front derailleur. Phew, 1x sure makes everything easier about designing full suspension bikes.

2011 Turner 5 Spot DW Link NSMB Jeff Parker (3)

This fender-esque piece of chopped plastic sewer pipe is actually an accessory mount for longer adventures. Coupled with some Voilé straps it nicely carries Jeff's Jetboil stove and a one-litre bottle.

2011 Turner 5 Spot DW Link NSMB Jeff Parker (2)

Jeff calls his custom made bag a "combover style" and it's meant to allow for the easiest access.

26 For Flights

Let's be clear: Jeff's not a retro-grouch frozen in time way back in 2011 with his front derailleur, top-mounted dropper post lever, twist shifters, and 26" wheels. I mean, wow, even by 2011 the Grip Shift would have been suspect to a lot of riders. Personally, I find it more suspicious that not one of my Grip Shift loving friends of yore has bucked up the 49 USD to twist-shift their Eagle drivetrain. The later versions of Grip Shift, like Jeff's, rotate on ball-bearings and have no discernible friction or play.

They're bombproof, cheap, and you can plow through gears faster than any trigger deck out there if that's your thing. It's a relatively inexpensive,thing to try and if you don't love it, it won't be hard to flip and takes mere minutes to swap back to your trigger shifter. Just run it with brakes with long lever blades so you can find your perfect combination of brake, shifter, and grip position. If you do try SRAM's Eagle Grip Shift, just keep an open mind and give it a couple of rides. It'll never be a stock option on complete bikes again, but that's not because it isn't awesome for some riders.

SRAM Eagle Grip Shift Twister SRAM

I know Jeff's not running SRAM Eagle on the Turner, but tons of NSMB readers are pedaling a cable-actuated version of their 12-speed group. That means a 49 USD Grip Shift Eagle experiment may be just the project they're looking for.


Found the frame locally on Pinkbike about 5 years ago for $300 in raw - ‘cause ya know 26 is dead" - Jeff

Alright, sorry to the give-me-triggers-or-give-me-death crowd for the twisted aside. At least I didn't also add in a pitch for friction thumb-shifting. Back to the Turner, it's not that Jeff doesn't own 1x12 rigs - he owns several with AXS wireless shifting. It's not that he's a 26" evangelist either; the Turner is a mini-mullet setup with a 26" rear and a 27.5" front. The bike was originally built for a specific purpose, which is travel. The full suspension frame, like most, is easy to break down into a smaller package by separating the rear triangle from the front and with the smaller wheels the whole package has Jeff checking his bicycle with no oversized luggage fees.

I had a customer at one of the shops I worked at who could get his V1 Bronson into a similarly small package and claimed it really wasn't any more work than boxing up a bike into a hard case once you've done it a few times, and it was cheaper than buying a hardtail frame with couplers. Some food for thought for those who travel regularly with a bike.

2011 Turner 5 Spot DW Link NSMB Jeff Parker (4)

The wide-nosed Chromag Trailmaster Saddle is comfortable for getting forward on steep climbs.

2011 Turner 5 Spot DW Link NSMB Jeff Parker (12)

Raw aluminum frames look at home anywhere.

2x Build Out

Whatever your preferences for full suspension systems, and however your feel about DW-Link, the design works very well in terms of the pedaling efficiency that Jeff is looking for while also remaining plush but supportive when called on to deliver traction and comfort. Most importantly from a min-max perspective, it works well with the most basic of air shocks. If your budget is for a fresh SR Suntour Edge or an OE-only basic RockShox Select+ or Fox DPS takeoff shock, you should find that almost any budget option is going to work well enough.

Jeff's bike is equipped with the legendary stalwart that was the Fox Float RP23. Some of the things folks put these little inline shocks through on 6" travel bikes with ridiculous leverage ratios was borderline bicycle cruelty, yet from the anodizing to the internals I think you could make the argument that their quality challenges any production shock on the market today (exceptions perhaps for PUSH or EXT). Sadly, support for these basic Float shocks beyond basic seal kits has waned, so Jeff will want to stay on top of maintenance to avoid having to retire it to paperweight status.

Keeping with suspension, the fork is a 29er Pike off of his Giant Anthem, set at 140mm. Jeff did try the Turner as a mullet with a 29" front wheel, and also ran it with a 27.5+ front wheel for a time, but the current setup is a 27.5 x 2.6" Nobby Nic in front with a 26 x 2.3" Nic out back (which measures to 2.4" on a Stan's Flow rim).

2011 Turner 5 Spot DW Link NSMB Jeff Parker (9)

I wish all post mount brake studs, on frames and forks, had replaceable threaded barrels to capture bolts.

2011 Turner 5 Spot DW Link NSMB Jeff Parker (14)

The 29" fork doesn't look out of place at all with the 27/26 wheel setup. I am surprised that Jeff hasn't drilled a hole to run a stealth-routed seat post.

From my nerdy perspective the most interesting feature in Jeff's parts kit is the Shimano XT T-8000 brake levers. Like Shimano's most budget-friendly brakes, these rely on honking long lever blades instead of Shimano's ServoWave magic to drive their further-apart-pistons into the rotor. So you get the potential advantages of an easy, drag-free setup along with consistent feel through the brake stroke along with the forty-year-old aesthetics of the Magura motorcycle levers that appeared on '80s mountain bikes.

The long XT levers are key to Jeff finding the desired position for all his controls since his Grip Shift is set up with a full length grip. There are two schools of thought when it comes to twisters: those that prefer to have their hand on the shifter all the time and who run a shorter grip, and those who prefer to run a full length grip and move their hand over a bit to shift. Jeff's Turner represents the latter option. I would love to try a pair of those levers with some 4-piston calipers to compare them head-to-head with Shimano's current 4-piston setups.

Apart from the parts already mentioned, the hubs are also of interest. These are XO-branded, but the guts should be identical to the Ringlé-inspired 4-pawl, ROAM 60 wheels (only difference is the j-bend spokes on these instead of straight-pulls) that Jeff Bryson and I did a teardown on in 2016. For riders happy with the 7° engagement, these are very reliable hubs that can sometimes be found used for a song, so they're worth keeping an eye out for if you're in the market.

2011 Turner 5 Spot DW Link NSMB Jeff Parker (5)

*Gasp* a quick release rear end? No personal-pizza sized cog with this 2x10 SRAM drivetrain setup.

2011 Turner 5 Spot DW Link NSMB Jeff Parker (8)

So much good stuff going on here. My favourite bit is the Shimano XT touring brake levers. I'd love to try these hooked up to some four-piston calipers.

With the 72° seat tube angle (STA) it makes perfect sense that Jeff prefers a comfortable flat-nosed saddle - the Chromag Trailmaster in this case - for those steep climbs where he has to get on the nose to keep traction. It works. The head tube angle is 67.7° and I think there's a decent argument that the -2° EC44/EC44 angleset from Works would be worth a try to see how it changes the handling on descents. Jeff is well aware the this headset exists so hopefully he'll report back if he does give it a shot. I mean, it's all good that he's happy with the current geometry, but would it be an NSMB Min-Max article if the bike didn't already have an angleset installed or I didn't recommend one?

Beyond that, my only real surprise is that Jeff hasn't drilled a stealth-dropper exit into the seat tube. Please note, it's not that there's anything wrong with a fixed-external mount dropper, and the previous generation of the Fox Transfer or the current PNW Cascade are both good options. It's just that a person who's going to add their own rivnuts for preferred cable routing, bag, and accessory mounting obviously likes making holes in things.

Thank you for submitting your sweet Turner, Jeff! If you'd like to submit your well-loved rig for Min-Max Your Ride please fire me an e-mail.

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Comments

Heinous
Heinous
5 months, 1 week ago
+9 Andrew Major Kos Mammal Cr4w kcy4130 Vik Banerjee Tadpoledancer Lynx . Stripes The Tiger

Turner’s demise was really sad, they were iconic rigs that did ride great. That transition from alloy to carbon and from 26 seemed to just overrun their design/capital.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
5 months, 1 week ago
+3 Cr4w Mike Ferrentino Lynx .

I can't speak to the specific case, but I know a lot of smaller brands struggled to stay responsive to rider wants/needs in terms of geometry and also come up with the money to create new molds. 

In some cases, this stagnated their whole bike lineups since they didn't want to move forward with fresh geo for their aluminum bikes, despite the relative ease and minuscule comparative costs, because then they'd be more current than flagship models. 

The Turner Czar was apparently a great machine for the time (never had the pleasure) but one has to wonder if the customers they gained short-term by going carbon wouldn't have been more than covered by sales of aluminum rigs that were updated regularly.

Reply

kos
Kos
5 months, 1 week ago
+1 Andrew Major

For its day, the Czar was a ripping xco or xcm mount. The change to DW rear sus didn't work out with the bushings, but all was good once DT re-jiggered that. So fast - and so small. Ha!

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
5 months, 1 week ago
0

Yeah, the folks I know who owned a Czar loved it. Things were just wild at the time with 29’er geo and it was ‘outdated’ fast. If it was aluminum maybe folks wouldn’t have bought it? But if they did it would have been easy to update every year. 

Was it their first bike that wasn’t MUSA as well?

Reply

joseph-crabtree
Joseph Crabtree
5 months, 1 week ago
+3 Mammal Lynx . jeffp

Unfortunately they lost their domestic alloy frame maker and went the overseas carbon route that was their demise IMHO. I had the last alloy Flux which was much like the 5 Spot. As a rehabilitated XC geek, that was my first "long" travel bike with a 67 degree HTA it was slacker and lower than anything I had ridden and it felt like a bruiser with a Pike.

Reply

mikeferrentino
Mike Ferrentino
5 months, 1 week ago
+11 Andrew Major Joseph Crabtree Mammal @canopyclosure mrbrett Lynx . Dan Spencer Nelson Heinous Timer jeffp

Turner was impacted by so many of the tectonic shifts that occurred in mountain biking that it got hard to keep track of... For starters, David Turner always ran a pretty lean operation and was/is very hands on in both how he designs and how he markets his product. he had been working for Horst Leitner during the development of AMP bikes with Horst Links, and that is what led him to branch out and do his own brand of fs bike. That went great until Specialized bought the FSR patent, and he had to start paying them to use a suspension that he had a hand in designing. So he bailed, and went to a basic walking beam suspension. Those worked okay, but he lost some marketing leverage. Then he went to the dw-link bikes, which were awesome, but which were also substantially more complex to manufacture.

Meanwhile, as mentioned upstream, he was faced with the rising popularity of carbon fiber as well as losing his domestic aluminum fabricator. I had some very long conversations with him at that time about long term geometry prognostication and the desire to have some flexibility of design and execution. He was being pushed into to making bikes overseas, which he did not want to do, and having to make them out of carbon fiber, which he was also reluctant to do. As a small outfit, the molding costs were astronomical, and the speed of change within the bike industry was making him very nervous about immediate obsolescence and how to stay afloat.

So here he is now, having titanium hardtails built in small batches!

As an aside, he will probably defend bushings for use in rocker pivots instead of bearings until the day he dies... and to his credit, he did bushings right.

shoreboy
Shoreboy
5 months, 1 week ago
+3 Andrew Major Mike Ferrentino Heinous

Dave actually paid for the use of FSR patent for about 11 years if memory serves. The straw that pushed him to the TNT link was when Ellsworth decided to enforce their patent on their ICT (Instant Centre Tracking) which related to rocker angle I think. I can see why he would finally be fed up paying for things he was in part responsible for developing.

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
5 months, 1 week ago
+3 Mike Ferrentino Dan Heinous

@Mike Ferrentino

Thank you; very insightful take. I'd heard that Dave Turner was no longer involved (after the company switched to selling Titanium hardtails) but it's nice to know that isn't the case. Maybe there's hope when the dust settles a bit more we'll see more of his take on full-suspension bikes? Variety is its own blessing.

mikeferrentino
Mike Ferrentino
5 months, 1 week ago
+4 Dan DanL Lynx . Heinous

Oh man, Ellsworth. I had completely forgotten about that litigious shitshow! And mea culpa, I shoulda clarified that Turner paid to use FSR for several years before the combined "pay specialized AND Tony Ellsworth" weight hit the breaking point... As for David's involvement, I ran into him working the Turner booth at Sea Otter this year. Didn't ask any questions about ownership or investment though, so I don't know for sure what his stake is these days.

Heinous
Heinous
5 months, 1 week ago
+5 Andrew Major Velocipedestrian Shoreboy rg-nw Lynx .

The sad irony of Ellsworth pushing Turner over the edge…

velocipedestrian
Velocipedestrian
5 months, 1 week ago
+2 Ed Doherty Lynx .

I missed riding my 04 Spot with a buddy on his similar vintage Elsworth Moment... Until I rebuilt the Spot. It's steep, short, and I perch awkwardly on top like a circus bear.

Turns out I was missing the fun we had, not the machines we used to have it.

Bondseye
Kevin Bond
5 months, 1 week ago
0

This comment has been removed.

cheapondirt
cheapondirt
5 months, 1 week ago
+8 Andrew Major Cr4w Doug M. Lynx . Dan Moritz Haager bushtrucker Stripes The Tiger

Just love to see how comprehensively this rig has been tweaked to the exact needs of the owner! So many ways to make a bike better for you, and a lot of them don't cost much money.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
5 months, 1 week ago
+4 Kelownakona Mammal cheapondirt mrbrett

Are you currently talking yourself into adding some rivnuts to your frame to change the cable routing?

Reply

cheapondirt
cheapondirt
5 months, 1 week ago
+3 Andrew Major Tjaard Breeuwer Spencer Nelson

I can't deny it. Brakes need a bleed anyway...

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
5 months, 1 week ago
+6 Doug M. Lu Kz cheapondirt Tjaard Breeuwer bushtrucker jeffp

First I was thinking about the piles of aluminum frames with really crap internal routing that could have good external routing. 

Then I was thinking about all the folks adding accessory and bottle mounts.

I had many laughs writing this piece.

Reply

mrbrett
mrbrett
5 months, 1 week ago
+3 Andrew Major cheapondirt Ed Doherty

It’s hard to stop once you get a Rivnut tool and can just have a threaded hole wherever you want. I bought one with a few different size mandrels and can pop an appropriately strong rivnut into all kinds of vehicle projects, bike things, the side of my rolling tool drawers/chest … 

Definitely not the kind of tool I use every day but when I need it I need it.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
5 months, 1 week ago
+3 mrbrett cheapondirt jeffp

It’s hard to stop once you get a Rivnut tool and can just have a threaded hole wherever you want.

This would be my challenge. Why have three cable mounting hard-points when I can have seven?

Reply

andy-eunson
Andy Eunson
5 months, 1 week ago
+1 cheapondirt

Once upon a time I had a Kona Hei Hei titanium hardtail. It had the equivalent of internal routing for back then in that brake noodle for the rear brake. The loop was too tight and the cable had huge friction. I got a bunch of river on cable guides from Rocky Mountain for free. Dude just gave me a handful when I asked. I cut off the crap noodle and riveted on guides to reroute the rear derailleur cable on the downtube and I found a bolt on cable guide for the rear brake which was similar to the tiny loop Ritchey used. It was beautiful. Unfortunately that frame had the rear brake posts mounted wrong so the pads couldn’t be flush with the rim until they were almost too worn out. Too high.

Reply

craw
Cr4w
5 months, 1 week ago
+4 Andrew Major Lynx . Dogl0rd jeffp

This was nice reminder that the super progressive enduro bikes we love around here aren't the right tool for every job. I was riding mine (62.5' HA, 79' ESTA, 1350mm WB) on flat ground the other day and I was like, right this isn't great lol. We need as many options as there are ways and places to ride. It's nice to have choices.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
5 months, 1 week ago
+2 Vik Banerjee Lynx .

This is part of why I don’t understand every brand’s push for super steep STAs, especially on hardtails. I guess it makes sense for Chromag riding straight up to rip down and a lot of hardtail design is basically just copying what Chromag is doing?

But yeah, having choices is rad. And companies designing the best bike for where they’re based instead of trying not to offend anyone.

Reply

a.funks
a.funks
5 months, 1 week ago
+1 Vik Banerjee

Thankfully quite a few of those super steep seat angles (according to the geometry charts) aren’t actually super steep in real life - because seat tubes are bent on many modern hardtails (to fit around 29” wheels) and the ESTA measured at head tube height or certainly lower than typical saddle height (let alone long-legged saddle height).

It was only once I found that truth that I dared buy a Pipedream Moxie (pretend ESTA 77.5 deg!)

Reply

Vikb
Vik Banerjee
5 months, 1 week ago
0

I think Pipedream lists their HT geo with a sagged fork so compared to a lot of other brands that list unsagged the numbers seem steeper than reality. So that 77.5 deg is more like unsagged 76 deg. And as you note with bent seat tubes the higher the saddle the slacker the effective STA is.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
5 months, 1 week ago
+3 Vik Banerjee Morgan Heater bushtrucker

As Vik notes, you certainly have to (try and) be aware of if the company is posting sagged or static geo on their hardtails. Lots of folks get caught out on HTA assuming two bikes are similar when one’s at 30%-sag. Many companies don’t mention it.

Also, I think a lot of companies must not consider things like bent seat tubes and what saddle height effective STA is measured at, and if everything is measured sagged or static when they’re R&Ding competitors rigs because there are a lot of bikes that look so similar on paper but ride and fit very differently.

All that aside, I tend to only be looking at hardtail frames with a straight seat tube aesthetic - I like simple straight and round tubes on my simple bikes - and a lot of those bikes have a crazy steep STA actual and effective.

Reply

velocipedestrian
Velocipedestrian
5 months, 1 week ago
0

My Moxie has come down to ~72°. The mullet wheels are probably the key culprit, but the frame forced my hand by not even clearing a 29x2.4 on an i19 rim.

Very comfortable to pedal.

Reply

jeffp
jeffp
5 months, 1 week ago
+4 yardrec Andrew Major Lynx . Ed Doherty

Hah, I did make all the plans to drill for an internal dropper, but the KS Lev external post, despite it complex kevlar string-and-pullies actuator, has been working perfectly for years, so I never "pulled the trigger."

Reply

yardrec
yardrec
5 months, 1 week ago
+1 jeffp

That’s been my experience as well.

Reply

Mingo
YungMing Lee
4 months, 2 weeks ago
0

I have the Turner 5-spot in 27.5.... there's a drainage hole at the bottom of the seat tube, which I enlarged with a file and I'm now running a stealth dropper. Happy with the mod! :)

Reply

craw
Cr4w
5 months, 1 week ago
+2 Andrew Major Derek Baker

How should I add a pitch for friction thumb shifters without adding a pitch for friction thumb shifters? Grip shift!

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
5 months, 1 week ago
+3 Mammal DanL yardrec

Shhhhhhhh. It's like you know me too well. But really, why can't it be both a pitch for Grip Shift and Thumbies?!

And in my defense, at least I've never yet written a piece encouraging hardtail owners to use their fork lockouts more often as a way to pitch rigid forks.

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Timer
Timer
5 months, 1 week ago
0

I bet you could actuate a fork lockout remote with a friction thumb shifter…..

Reply

Cydwhit
Cy Whitling
5 months, 1 week ago
+2 Andrew Major jeffp

Love this one. Echo the thoughts on a Rivnut tool. I know that if I ever get one, every bike and piece of gear I own will be festooned with threaded bosses.

I'm not a huge Gripshift fan, but my partner is hooked on it for her bikepacking/do-everythink Krampus, because, if you're going to strap a dry bag to your bars, Gripshift's cable routing doesn't get smooshed or kinked as easily as a trigger shifter. Seems like it makes a ton of sense for this bike given the frame bag and sick sewer pipe "everything plate".

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
5 months, 1 week ago
+1 Mammal

Home, car, bike… I’d be spending 1K a year on rivnuts.

Reply

jeffp
jeffp
5 months, 1 week ago
0

Very true. When I set up my rig for bikepacking, I just rotate the grip shifts around to put the cable entrance on the rider side of the handlebar and away from the bag. Shifting is the same no matter the rotation.

Reply

Lynx
Lynx .
5 months, 1 week ago
+2 Vik Banerjee jeffp

Will go through all the comments later, but just reading down a bit and hearing about Jeff's travel reasoning for this bike and just had to add this photo of my "too small" 2013 Phantom which fits neatly into a 62 linear inch travel box, minus the fork and bar which go in between clothes in my duffle. Ended up still having to remove the most reward ISG tab, but that's OK, don't use it anyways and no over size or extra bag fees, takes maybe an hour to 1.5 hours to build it back up.

The travel Phantom

Phantom all laid out ready to assemble.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
5 months, 1 week ago
+2 Timer Lynx .

Even tires off! That’s an aggressive teardown.

Reply

Lynx
Lynx .
5 months, 1 week ago
+1 Vik Banerjee

Wheels won't fit in without them removed, the rims fit exactly within the dimensions of that case, not more than a couple MM to spare. Added a second pic of it all laid out on the carpet in the BnB ready to be put together when we finally got there at like 1am. Had it all together by about 3am I think and was back up by 7am ready to head out to the trails.

Here she is at the top of the climb to Doctor Park Trail in Crested Butte, posing for posterity. It's  so great to have your own bike that you're accustomed to rather than a rental that you have to fiddle with to try and get it close, especially when you're as sensitive to setup as I am.

Reply

Timer
Timer
5 months, 1 week ago
0

Amazing! I think it would already take me several hours just to get the bike and all components as clean as they are in the pictures. 

Are you running tubes? A tubeless tyre teardown on an Airbnb carpet sounds like a special kind of challenge.

Reply

Lynx
Lynx .
5 months, 1 week ago
0

LMAO, that's how my bikes always look - a clean bike is not normally a noisy bike and makes working on a lot more of a pleasure. Plus to me bikes are DAMN expensive and so I care all my parts to make them last as long as possible and work as best as possible.

Tubeless man, come on now, it was 2016 after all and I'd been running tubeless since the Ghetto days. Can't recall for absolute what I did, but gave the bike a good wash at the bike park wash station, then dried it off well, took it up to the BnB to strip.  Stripped it outside on the gallery/veranda, just broke the bead on one side of the tyre and scooped as much of the sealant out as I could and put it in a bottle then took the tyres off, went down onto the lawn and rinsed them out. Hardest part was remembering the order in which everything went in - it was like a jigsaw puzzle :LMAO:

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velocipedestrian
Velocipedestrian
5 months, 1 week ago
0

And two seatposts!

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Lynx
Lynx .
5 months, 1 week ago
+1 Velocipedestrian

Yeah Dude, even though I loved my FallLine, droppers weren't so reliable back in 2016 and I hadn't had it so long, so I took along a regular rigid post as well, just in case, wasn't going to miss out on riding because of a fvcking around dropper :-)

> Velocipedestrian - And two seatposts!

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Kelownakona
Kelownakona
5 months, 1 week ago
+1 Andrew Major

Andrew I hate you*. Every few months you'll throw something out there which I will spend a month deliberating about convince myself I don't need and then buy it to try it anyway. Fit it, take it off in disgust and then refit it and love it and then spend the next year obsessing about whether I prefer the new thing or the old thing.

This has happened with pedals, bars (sweep) , saddles and now the invasive mind-seed you have skillfully sown is the Gripshift! 

Last used on a fully rigid in 1996 and I now really want to give it a go again! 

*I love it really. Saves me wanting to buy a new bike.

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AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
5 months, 1 week ago
+1 Mammal

*evil laugh*

(Kidding, kidding)

I did actually consider adding a note that SRAM isn’t cutting me in on Grip Shift sales for the week or something. 

I appreciate that being a bike nerd beyond the academic ‘dreaming’ sense gets expensive quickly and I still love trying new stuff as much as I did when rent was cheap and mountain biking was my only expense (you know, when food and vehicle budgeting just tossed in the mountain biking column too). So when it’s something that is going to make a big experience difference for under a hundred bucks I get excited. 

Saddles get expensive as do bars and they’re not easy to sell used. But I figure a twister wouldn’t be hard to flip to the next person who wants to try Eagle Grip Shift?!

……

And cheers, I’ve had a few people tell me they invested some (or a lot) of money into their own rig and fell back in love with it for net a whole lot less than flipping for new (even in the crazy used market) and I think that’s neat.

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alexdi
Alex D
5 months, 1 week ago
0

I wouldn't shed a tear if Grip Shift died in a fire. I wasted an inordinate amount of time fixing, and then re-fixing, and re-fixing a friend's XX1 Eagle shifter that could not, for its life, release cable consistently. Left such a bad taste.

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AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
5 months, 1 week ago
0

Did you ever figure out the issue? Not a ton going on in there, was it an issue from new?

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alexdi
Alex D
5 months ago
0

I did not. It would work for 12 gears on the stand, then quickly start to hang up going into the small sprocket. There was a lot of inexplicable friction in the shifter for last quarter-inch of cable travel I could never resolve, despite scrutinizing various resources and reassembling it three times. He brought it to me with the problem already evident from the new configuration. Eventually just switched to a bike with AXS.

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mammal
Mammal
5 months, 1 week ago
+1 Andrew Major

I love this one, great example of "one man's trash, is..." All the custom stuff makes it extremely appropriate for his needs, more so than a new steed rolling out the bike shop. Love it.

I would have had a great submission prior to this Min/Max series being a thing (I'll try to figure out how to add a picture). I bought a new complete in Feb'20, my first new trail bike in 16 years. Before that, it was always the min/max life.

  • Black '14 Giant Trance frame (Large - 27.5) - bought from a friend in Whistler for $500. Even came with a really crappy shock that I eventually sold the frame with.
  • Mattoc Pro Fork (amazing fork - deal from Zac on new stock)
  • Fox RP3 shock from a previous Altitude I had. Corset Air Can from Vorsprung, and serviced at SW.
  • Raceface 4-bolt Turbine Cranks with 30t NSB ring
  • 10spd SLX mech with goat link, XT shifter, Sunrace 11-46 all-steel cassette, 10spd chain of some sort.
  • Spank 30mm 32h rims on Hope Pro 142x12 rear hub and Old Stans front hub, DT straight gauge spokes from CRC (built by me).
  • Answer Bar (cut to 780) with black RF Atlas 50mm stem (both from previous bikes).
  • SLX 2-piston brakes - should have been 4 piston:( - 180mm rotors both ends.
  • 2.5 Minion WT EXO Max-terra front and rear (because DHF is always how I roll).
  • X-Fusion 150mm dropper.
  • WTB Silverado from my pile-o-saddles. Slammed forward, because '14 Giant Seat Tube Angle.
  • M530 clips (probably 5yo at the time) - $30 at CRC - Still as good as new

Links to the picture, because I don't know how else to do it here:

https://nsmb.com/photos/view/20800/

https://nsmb.com/photos/view/20801/

She was a bit flexy out back, and I could have used a bit more rear travel, but she served me VERY well for about 4 years. Now all the good bits are on my wife's size Small '15 Trance.

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AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
5 months, 1 week ago
+1 Mammal

You click the picture of the photo in the header (to the right of the link option) and then paste your link photo link in.

------

Good looking rig! 

I sometimes think that SunRace and Works/WolfTooth/9point8 (Anglesets) should probably sponsor the Min-Max series?! 

I assume you're planning to have your Ibis long enough and through enough iterations that it will count for Min-Max in the future too. Or on a different program now?

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mammal
Mammal
5 months, 1 week ago
+2 Andrew Major Doug M.

Thanks for the pic tutorial! If you're interested in adding the Trance to the series, I could probably provide more pics and details. Although it's no longer my bike, all the min/max bits aside from the dropper are still alive on the wife's bike.

You're right, the Ripmo will probably be a future candidate, started as the cheapest build from 2020. Flipped the unusable Guide-T brakes for Saints immediately. After a few months, NX mech and shifter died, and turned in to SLX (kept the NX cassette/ring because steel wear-value). Now I'm going back to XT/Deore 11spd setup for next year (Sunrace cassette). Cascade Link installed a year and a half ago (WAY better now). I'll be flipping the Diamond, although I love it, for a beefier almost-new Onyx that I recently picked up for $600, just rebuilt it and had SW hone the bushings for me. Third season on the bike is now on the back stretch, and I haven't needed to send any suspension bits in once. Full home-services to the Topaz/Diamond every 10 months or so has saved me a pile of cash. Keep the value train rolling!

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AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
5 months, 1 week ago
0

That’s certainly an advantage of the DVO shocks for folks with the space/tools/knowledge to service their own. Definite budget win.

Ripmo was already a solid deal. Do you think the Cascade link would be a universal improvement, or just for folks riding the bike hard?

What frame is your wife on? I like to just write about currently active rigs for min-max but it sounds like it has great potential?!

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mammal
Mammal
5 months, 1 week ago
+1 Andrew Major

Ripmo Cascade Link - I think it's mostly for people riding hard, or very discerning riders who don't like how the Ibis Ibis'. I'm in two different forums for the Ripmo AF, and tonnes of people love it just how it is. For me, there wan't nearly enough progression in the last 1/3 of travel (overloaded the Topaz with volume spacers), and there seamed to be a weird "knuckle" in the leverage curve that caused it to hang up when unweighted and flying into things. I think that was related to the pedal-centric DW tuning for Ibis. Cascade link fixed those two issues admirably, and with increased leverage at initial stroke, it's a bit more sensitive there in tandem with the air shock. Way fewer volume spacers means a way more composed rebound stroke, and the link added a bonus 4mm of travel.

She's on a Trance of the same model! She actually got her's first, and was the inspiration when I needed to move onto the next min/max frame. She kept all the good parts that were on it, and everything else from mine transferred over. She already had a Chromag bar/stem, same brakes, and since the big swap I got her a OneUp 120mm post (lowest stack in the biz). Her last post was an externally routed Reverb, and I needed to invent a hilarious zip-tie hack to limit the extension to exactly 95mm (that in itself is worth the story in cyber-print). We don't have many pics of the bike in current form, but if you want the story, she'd probably be hyper-motivated to get out and take some.

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AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
5 months, 1 week ago
+1 Mammal

The Trance sounds awesome. I have a couple min-max rigs in the queue and would certainly be eager to write about it.

……

I think that covers Cascade links in general, and PUSH links before them. Cheers!

whotookit
whotookit
5 months, 1 week ago
+1 Doug M.

I'm digging this ride quite a bit! One fun note: as of last year (?) the larger airlines in the US (United, American, Delta at least) now treat bikes as simple $30 checked bags, no matter whether they're broken down, in a cardboard bike box, or in a proper bike box. The only bit of concern is that the 50 pound weight limit still applies, so make sure to throw your setup on the scale before heading out.

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AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
5 months, 1 week ago
0

I hadn't heard that about the airlines. That's interesting but seems very out of character for them to give anything away so I'm wondering what the catch is.

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mammal
Mammal
5 months, 1 week ago
0

All this talk of grip shift, and the very mention of Airlines... the mind immediately wanders to late 90's DH shifting.

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shoreboy
Shoreboy
5 months, 1 week ago
+1 Andrew Major

Still riding my 2018 RFX to this day as my only bike. The geometry is dated by today's 'standards' (440mm reach on a LARGE? Gasp...), but I like the feel of a smaller frame and 27.5 aint dead yet! I really cannot justify buying something new when my Turner does everything so well. 170mm front, 160mm rear and 31+lbs makes it my go anywhere and everywhere bike!

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AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
5 months, 1 week ago
0

Have you thought about mulleting it with an Angleset?! Hahahaha, I know, I’m the worst.

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shoreboy
Shoreboy
5 months, 1 week ago
+1 Andrew Major

Already have a -1 angleset on it. Takes it down to ~64-65 degrees. Dont see the need to mullet it as well :)

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AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
5 months, 1 week ago
+1 Cr4w

Sounds awesome. Can I request a picture?

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bde1024
bde1024
5 months, 1 week ago
+1 Andrew Major

I love this series, especially the focus on obscure component options like the long Shimano levers and grip shifters. I’ve got a 1x11 grip shifter on my fat bike, works great and is much easier to locate than a trigger inside bar mitts.

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AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
5 months, 1 week ago
0

Cheers! What sort of Fat setup are you running? I was riding with a fellow on a Rocky Mountain Blizzard a couple weeks back. It’s cool how a few companies have continued pushing geometry forward on those rigs.

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bde1024
bde1024
5 months, 1 week ago
0

I’m the original owner of a 2015 Trek Farley 8, so not progressive geometry, but it’s pretty much a dedicated snow/ice bike for me, so It works fine for my purposes. I’m surprised by other comments about difficulties setting up grip shifters. My Farley still has the original GX derailleur on it, which looks like it’s had a few run-ins with a bench grinder, and it bangs off shifts perfectly. I swapped the cassette to a SunRace 11-46 and threw on an oval 28t Absolute Black chainring for lower gearing.

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jeffp
jeffp
5 months, 1 week ago
+1 bde1024

I think winter biking is the killer app for grip shift. When you loose all the feeling in your fingers, triggers are useless. Grip shift will keep working till your hands fall off. Even in August I was reminded of this just the other day when I got caught in a hail storm at 10,000 feet and the temperature dropped 30 degrees to 42 F. I'd neglected to bring my shell gloves, but was able to ride out after sheltering for an hour in some old mine ruins.

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bde1024
bde1024
2 months, 1 week ago
0

I’ve got my eye on a seemingly well-used 2013 Turner Burner in my size for sale locally. It’s got 27.5 wheels updated with wider rims, Fox Factory suspension with a 150mm travel 34 CTD, 2x XT drivetrain, and a non-working Reverb. I was thinking of picking up as a winter min-max project. I think it was in Turner’s DW suspension period. Any thoughts from the Turner experts here?

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Lynx
Lynx .
2 months, 1 week ago
+1 bde1024

Sounds like a solid plan to me, Turners were very nice bikes. You can pick up a BrandX dropper off CRC for under $100US with remote. If you really want to bring this thing alive, think about doing it as a mullet with a 29er wheel upfront, will give that 29er rollover ability, only thing you'd want to do is run less travel if you want to keep the geo the same, if not then the 29er/650B setup would probably slack the HTA out by about 1.5 degrees.

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bde1024
bde1024
2 months, 1 week ago
0

I thought about the mullet thing, but it already has a slack seat angle (72), which would be further slacked out with a higher front end. Also, this bike was upgraded at some point with some nice 30mm internal carbon wheels, so it would be a shame to toss the front wheel (and 34 fork). It comes with a 44mm head tube, so I think an angleset could be used to slack it out. It appears Turner still offers bushing kits and derailleur hangers, so there’s a reasonable chance of keeping it going for a while.

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Lynx
Lynx .
2 months, 1 week ago
0

Hey, yup, mullet may not be for everyone and I did mention you could lower the fork to keep the geo the same, just getting the benefits of the 29er front wheel. Me myself, I'm a 29er for life kinda guy, but then again I'm also 6'2", so they're proportionate to my height, so to speak, if you're <5'8" say, then 650B might work well for you and yes, an angleset could work to help with the HTA.

Honestly sounds like a really nice bike, if the price is right and it won't hurt you financially, then I say go for it, always N+1 ;-)

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