Choosing Helmets
Helmet Tech - MIPS or GRAMS?
Weird, Wild, Weight
As I pull the ABUS full face from its box my spine starts to tingle and I momentarily feel a touch queasy. As the peculiar feelings pass, I look around for a scale. It's simply too light to believe.
The magic number is 422 grams. Four hundred & twenty-two grams. That's less than a pound (0.93 lbs), and that's on my scale at home, not a figure that ABUS provided. Actually, and at odds with convention in the helmet market, that number is well below the claimed weight of 440 grams.
And this is a removable chin bar full face helmet, with the chin bar installed.
My kid loves her adult-small Bell Super 3R MIPS helmet. She's done many multi-hour rides in it. It weights 718 grams. I'm happy with the fit.
The weight difference trying on the kid-specific ABUS YouDrop FF, at 422 grams, is immediately noticeable. I'm happy with the fit.
It's important, both in coming to terms with the gram count and also in coming to terms with the construction, that the ABUS YouDrop FF is meant specifically for "courageous kids" with a head-size range of 48-55cm.
My daughter's current full face – a very comfortable, size small Bell Super 3R MIPS – is designed for adults and carries no rider weight limit. It fits a head-size range of 52-56cm and the helmet and chin bar assembly are designed to protect the face of a person packing a couple of hundred pounds and hitting the ground with a pile of momentum.
The release buttons on either side are something a kid can easily activate if being able to remove their own chin bar is a priority for their parents.
I'd be even happier with a fixed chin bar full-face for the same weight, or maybe lighter? But it is a nice option for longer forest road climbs.
I don't know that I'd trust this mechanism for myself, at 185 lbs or so, but I'm trying not to let that bias in, considering this lid is for my kid who's closer to 60lbs.
Pony Tails & Other Features
No MIPS of any kind, or equivalent system. No fancy foam. No anti-microbial padding. A significantly less secure feeling chin bar attachment system. Four colours instead of six, and the ABUS YouDrop FF isn't inexpensive at 210 CAD. Although, compared to the Super 3R at 330 CAD it's more than 30% less.
The helmet uses a tear-away, Velcro-mounted, visor to reduce the chances of it becoming an injury mechanism. There's even extra Velcro in the box if you want to change the mounting location.
The retention system has been designed with ponytails in mind. Specifically, the "height-adjustable adjustment system at the back of the head creates space for ponytails." Thoughtful. In general, the sewn-in straps fit comfortably.
I can't say much about venting, moisture management, or hot-ride comfort until summer, but the venting does look decent. The push-button chin bar release is kid-doable, though I'm not certain that's actually a selling feature.
I dig the Velcro mounting. No screws to come loose and the visor stays in position until that moment when I really don't want it to.
Comparative venting is a question for many months from now when it's proper hot out. My kid says fit is comparably good. I'm happy with it.
Padding is removable if it gets too sweaty and needs a rinse. The retention system is very adjustable, with ponytail accommodation being a selling feature.
Tech Vs. Tonnage
With that bit of background, It's time to address my question; MIPS or GRAMS? My daughter's small Super 3R MIPS, which is identical to her mom's, other than colour, is comfortable and feature-packed, and I'm happy with how it fits. It clocks in at 718 grams with the chin bar installed. That's a difference of 296 grams. The Super 3R, sans chin bar, is still heavier than the ABUS YouDrop with the chinbar installed.
She immediately noticed the difference in weight as soon as I stuck the ABUS helmet on her head. After a relatively short ride, of about an hour, she was more comfortable and I assume that will be compounded over multi-hour rides.
The fit is good and my grom immediately noticed the difference in weight on her head. We'll get some properly long Tech-C rides in, and report back on breathability and longer term comfort.
Also, it's important to note that on a proper cold & wet day, there's just enough room to wiggle a strawberry-cheese strudel over the chin bar and into one's mouth.
The average 8-year-old clocks in around 26kg/67lbs or so. The average North American dad is 90kg/200lbs, give or take. Do we really need a chin bar, or helmet, designed to handle the same impacts?
A Bell Super Air would cut down the weight difference a bit, it features the MIPS Spherical and a more robust chin bar attachment system - if that matters at my kids' weight, but it is twice the price and still around 200 grams heavier in a size small.
The weight reduction is so significant, it's not a fair fight to hold both the YouDrop and her Super 3R at the same time. But weight is only part of the equation when it comes to cranial protection.
Ready to drop with some added confidence, for parent and grom, on a slip-slide-snow-surfy kind of day.
Am I compromising on safety, as she rides blue, purple, and light-black trails on the North Shore in the much lighter and lower-tech helmet? Or, am I compromising by plopping a 70% heavier helmet on her head?
Currently, the ABUS is getting worn for every trail ride that's during daylight. The Super 3R gets donned for night rides because Bell's tearaway light mount beautifully combines a solid and secure mounting point but her light also somehow pops off at a thought, rather than becoming a mechanism of injury.
The ABUS is getting grabbed for North Shore trail riding, I'm not certain her Super 3R, or possibly a Super Air, wouldn't be the better choice if we were doing more higher-speed DH riding or spending time in the bike park. She's also getting bigger and faster all the time and that's a consideration as well. Which seems to put this at a dead heat. I recognize the privilege of having a choice between two full-face helmets for my kid, which puts us in the position of being able to choose both.
For the curious, there's more information on the 210 CAD 422-grams, kid-specific, YouDrop FF at ABUS.
Comments
Vik Banerjee
1 year, 2 months ago
Head safety is a complex topic with few easy answers. So assuming there is a trade off here between lighter weight and better impact protection [it's not clear that that is a choice you are making, but assuming it is] the net safety impact might still favour the lighter helmet. Less momentum acting on the head/neck could be beneficial in a number of possible scenarios. Even just in terms of rider fatigue and degraded bike handling skills.
My own take on helmets is wear something reasonable, but focus on not hitting your head into the ground as the #1 priority. I don't recall ever damaging a helmet in a crash. I know it's not possible to totally control crash outcomes. hence why I do wear a helmet, but I do think that for recreational riders there are a ton of choices you can make to reduce that risk. I treat the helmet like a bulletproof vest. It could well save my life, but I'm going to do everything possible not to find out.
On one hand you can say that's easier said than done with a kid on the other hand they have to learn stuff like that at some point so the earlier the better. I know adults who only start to really understand the problem as they rack up concussions and then it's hard to change how they think/act. It's easy to put too much reliance/faith into helmets in a sport like mountain biking.
It's great that Abus is making a quality kid specific helmet option so you have a choice to make here.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 2 months ago
Claire's a very cautious rider, and quite smooth, but I do have two scenarios where the chin bar was scuffed up in the last few months. In one she was attempting to climb a steep rock armoured section and between her 24" wheels and just power to weight ratio with the bike factored in she stalled out near the top and looped out. Not particularly fast but there was nothing she could do to avoid the helmet meeting the ground.
In another, and I'd guess this has happened to every rider at some point or another, she was cruising along at a fair clip pumping on a smooth blue trail when a rock shifted and her front wheel washed out. It all happened so fast that she was still holding the handlebar when she tagged up.
I wouldn't call either of those crashes inviting risk beyond what is simply making the choice to go mountain biking on the North Shore.
I'm not concerned at all about the ABUS lids ability to take impacts - I mean, I'm encouraging her to wear it - but, and I think the helmet light mount is a great example, I find myself wondering where the cut-off point is between the lightest weight option and adding in tech - specifically MIPS or a similar system for rotational forces.
So yeah, it's the helmet tech de jour versus this: "the net safety impact might still favour the lighter helmet. Less momentum acting on the head/neck could be beneficial in a number of possible scenarios. Even just in terms of rider fatigue and degraded bike handling skills."
Agreed that a helmet is like the lifejackets on a Ferry. Happy to pay for them to be there - and I'd rather have good ones than shitty ones - but it would be best if I never need one.
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Briain
1 year, 2 months ago
My own understanding is weight is probably more important than a MIPS-style system. I couldn't find it, but I'm sure one of the motorcycle websites quantified the difference a 100g weight difference makes at different speeds and it was substantial. Again more in relation to motorbikes but I find I suffer much less fatigue over a long period with a lighter helmet. But it's a complex topic because I'm sure Bell would argue the extra weight of their helmet has added safety through their choice of materials. But all things being equal, particularly for a kid's head I would always go with the lightest possible helmet.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 2 months ago
I tried to find information even from another activity but I understand it would be very hard to measure and even then at what point. Crashing leaving the house or after a couple of hours where fatigue could be a factor? There's always going to be some amount of qualification of the data.
I've been strictly thinking about it from the perspective of kids but I had a friend bring up that it's a good conversation for adult helmets as well. Both in terms of being realistic about just how fast we're going and aggressively we're riding (for example, I feel for my Tech-C riding I'm perfectly suited by my Kali Invader or something like a Super Air rather than a DH-rated lid). And also, it's a reason to hold helmet companies to account when their posted weights are not even close to actual weights since that could be a factor in choosing a lid.
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Briain
1 year, 2 months ago
Crashing is pretty dynamic. You could crash at the same place at the same speed 3 times and have completely different outcomes. So getting any kind of real world data is pretty difficult. As an aside there are a few companies making crash sensors to give you an idea of how much force went through your head
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Andrew Major
1 year, 2 months ago
Motorcycle crashes too. I'm mostly worried about my teeth and my brain bouncing around in my skull but Brad and Kali showed me a few street helmets where the rider was going so fast that the pavement essentially sanded through helmet layers - that's never going to happen the same way twice. It's cool they collect crashed helmets though to think about things like how the layers come apart.
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Timer
1 year, 2 months ago
I’d imagine that motorbike crashes follow different rules (especially on the road). Because the speed is so much higher, finding a not too disastrous way for the rider to shed all this speed when hitting the ground is tricky. Every little bit of extra mass is making this task even harder.
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Alex D
1 year, 2 months ago
How fast is she going? If she's shredding at adult speeds, taking jumps, and sliding past trees, have her wear the adult-caliber helmet. A typical low-speed endo or face-planting at 10 MPH is not going to stress either helmet. Both are vastly better than anything I had as a kid.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 2 months ago
That's where we've settled on the ABUS for most riding (whenever no lights are involved). We're doing North Shore Tech-C riding, though she's starting to hit a decent clip on some parts of John Deere and Asian Adonis.
I don't plan to replace helmets frequently (unless if they're crashed in) so part of the question is if the development curve (rider size and ability and speed) makes something like a Super Air a better purchase since it's decently lightweight (though still a couple of hundred grams over the ABUS) but also has rotational technology.
Here I haven't factored in my general - and personal -skepticism around MIPS because I'm trying to have an open mind about the best option for my kid and other kids her age and ability experiencing a similar progression.
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chacou
1 year, 2 months ago
Appropriate timing as I'm shopping for full face helmets for my son (soon to be 7) and daughter (soon to be 9) for their birthdays in March. We're leaning toward the TLD Stage, since they're both on the low end of the xs/sm sizing and it's listed weight is 690g for the m/l (so lower for the xs/s), fidlock which they love about my helmet, and they love the color options available and their Bell mips half shells still have some life/fit left for more mellow cruising around on paved trails, etc. Another one that looks similar to the ABUS here is the Kali Maya
I'm not too familiar with the quality of ABUS products and have only heard of the brand/family from their stance on women in leadership, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABUS
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Andrew Major
1 year, 2 months ago
I had a long-time reader message me about ABUS this morning to start a conversation on the subject - which I appreciate. As I did the last time I reviewed something with a Gore-Tex membrane and received correspondence about the family behind that brand.
I'm going to say a couple of things in my defense before I type the most downvote-able couple of paragraphs that I'll likely write in '23.
I am very interested in where and how products are made and the way companies give back to their community. I support businesses that give back locally in my community and in their own and whose politics are about positive ideas - even if they don't match my own. I very regularly get clothing repaired to avoid tossing it and I'm beyond unfashionable wearing most stuff to the end of its life or finding a good home for it where it will be worn out. I often pay a premium for products based on where and how they are made (not just because they are purple).
------
Now the bad part. You've undoubtedly heard some version of the quote "there's no such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism." I don't generally believe that but in the specific case of performance bike helmets, with the very rare exceptions of a few high-end road lids that are made in Europe, they're all coming from China. From the dominant Bell/Giro to the sexy Smith lids, to my beloved Kali Invader, your Troy Lee, and so on.
Where it's possible to boycott a bicycle company in Germany because the owners don't leave their religion at home or a bicycle company in the USA because the investment group that bought them also owns an ammunition factory, companies in China are so opaque that we have no way of knowing how they're linked to the government - outright ownership or simply by authoritarian influence.
That's nothing against the average factory worker in China trying to feed their family - all war is class war -but here in North America someone can lose their job because riders stop buying water bottles they sell because the company that owns them also owns a company that makes guns - fine, okay. Meanwhile, the drones Russia is flying over Ukraine are made by the same company in China that's making that must-have electronic device that folks don't think twice about buying. And even if they do think twice, how could they know?
Anyway, I simply want to point out that there's nothing simple about making better buying decisions - especially on a tight budget. And amongst bicycle stuffs, that's particularly true of helmets. Something to consider for anyone thinking they'd buy helmet-X instead of an ABUS because they've used inheritance waiver agreements to f*ck over female family members for decades.
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chacou
1 year, 2 months ago
I wouldn't say this is downvote-able, and appreciate the insight. Being an educated consumer is a struggle, you do the best you can with the information you have and often end up making compromises (whether it's with personal values or forgoing that new gadget you "need"). I had never heard of ABUS until recently, was intrigued by their offerings, did a bit of research and the Plymouth Brethern stuff surfaced pretty easily. Like you mention, you weigh that against the record of other players in the market, and their suppliers, and make a choice. Often it's a compromise on personal values :shrug:
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Andrew Major
1 year, 2 months ago
Yes, but. HAHAHA, isn't there always a but? I should have been more clear that it's not that I wouldn't take a companies stance on women's rights (human rights) into consideration when buying a helmet - choosing the best option from a sea of not-the-best options is a fact of life - as you note, but the Wikipedia link and the anonymous summations of articles behind a paywall that I can't read (not that I can read German, but Google translate could maybe get me the idea) seem to be suggesting that the rich people who own the company are screwing over some of their family members, who are women, one of whom went to the media with her story.
I've reached out to ABUS to see if they have anything to say on the subject, and women's roles in the actual company as opposed to the family that owns it.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 2 months ago
Here’s the reply I received from my contact at ABUS (italics) and their official statement (bold):
“We are aware of this issue as it has come up in other online forums. Below is our statement about the concerns and how ABUS is run today. Personally, I can tell you that ABUS is a great company to work for and treats every employee, no matter their sex or religious beliefs, with respect and allows for advancement within the company.”
What was mentioned on Wikipedia and the article written about a family member had to do with how the company was run decades ago, by previous generations. ABUS is a 99 year old, family owned and operated company, now in its fifth generation of leadership. Board seats are passed down from generation to generation, and we believe future generations of the board of directors will look much different as new generations join the company. ABUS has women in management positions around the globe, from General Managers of factories to Product Managers responsible for designing and engineering our helmets and locks.
Anyway, thanks for bringing it up. It’s good to hold folks writing about products/brands accountable.
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chacou
1 year, 1 month ago
Appreciate this setting the record straight.
Just came home from the LBS where my son found "the perfect one" a small Bell Super Air R mips "Fasthouse" edition. Spendy, but he's stoked, I'm happy with the fit, and it should work for him for a few years. Weighed on my kitchen/coffee scale at 626g w/ the chin bar and camera/light mount (advertised at 590g). Now we just need the trails to melt out, we've collected a good bit of snow this winter, and it's still February!
Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
I didn’t realize there was a Fasthouse version of the Air, that’s neat.
One would think the weight on the small would be accurate. No way there’s a 36 gram margin in error in manufacturing of a 600 gram helmet? Which would mean they know it’s heavier or maybe that’s the weight without the visor, hardware, and camera mount since those are accessories?
Still, Super Air is the helmet I’m keen for Claire to try on.
cheapondirt
1 year, 2 months ago
Grams>MIPS is my priority for myself, and I feel pretty good about applying it to my preschooler, whose cautious approach to riding bikes mirrors my own. I would rather not have him develop an association that helmets make it harder to ride a bike.
I also have a younger toddler who is generally reckless. Not even ready for a run bike, but I already want to put her in a MIPS helmet just to play in the living room.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 2 months ago
I suppose at the end of the day it comes down to a personal decision about the value of MIPS, or competing tech, and then deciding what value that tech has in terms of grams and treasure. The ABUS is lighter on the neck and the wallet.
My kid is cautious. She's only starting to get fast because she's working on getting smooth. But the sport surface will toss you sometimes and momentum is momentum.
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Konrad
1 year, 2 months ago
For those that are conscious about who they are purchasing from:
> The family belongs to the evangelical exclusive wing of the Plymouth Brethren (Brüderbewegung), a church movement that originated in the 19th century. The family's religious orientation also affects the company, whose mission statement is shaped by the church's principles. Equal participation of female family members in the company is not allowed; there are therefore no women among KG shareholders. To exclude the succession of daughters, so-called inheritance waiver agreements have been concluded in the past.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 2 months ago
@chacou beat you to the Wikipedia post by almost 30-minutes. I won't retype my post (above) but I'd encourage you to reply there if you'd like to have a conversation on the subject.
As the father of a mighty girl, a company's actions when it comes to women rights (human rights) absolutely play into my purchasing decisions. And maybe a deeper dive than what's available on Wikipedia or the anonymous synopses I've managed to find of five-year-old articles behind a paywall is in order. But, in particular with helmets, if you're going to look into how one brand's sausages are made I think it behooves you to look into all of them.
*edit: as I've already received messages. I'm not saying that I wouldn't take this into consideration when buying a helmet (a best of the worst situation) but it's very, very light on information so I will follow up with ABUS.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 2 months ago
Repost from above:
Here’s the reply I received from my contact at ABUS (italics) and their official statement (bold):
“We are aware of this issue as it has come up in other online forums. Below is our statement about the concerns and how ABUS is run today. Personally, I can tell you that ABUS is a great company to work for and treats every employee, no matter their sex or religious beliefs, with respect and allows for advancement within the company.”
What was mentioned on Wikipedia and the article written about a family member had to do with how the company was run decades ago, by previous generations. ABUS is a 99 year old, family owned and operated company, now in its fifth generation of leadership. Board seats are passed down from generation to generation, and we believe future generations of the board of directors will look much different as new generations join the company. ABUS has women in management positions around the globe, from General Managers of factories to Product Managers responsible for designing and engineering our helmets and locks.
Anyway, thanks for bringing it up. It’s good to hold folks writing about products/brands accountable.
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JVP
1 year, 2 months ago
I'd really like to see a university do a study on MIPS-like helmets and standard helmets on people with ample hair vs no hair. I always wonder at the MIPS benefit if you've got a mop on top, but needs data to not be typical "wrong on the internet speculation guy".
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JVP
1 year, 2 months ago
So I just grabbed my big 'ole chia pet-like mop and shook it back and forth to do a "test". It's quite noticeable how much the skin moves relative to the skull. Your skin moves further than MIPS or little plastic donuts ever will. The more I think about it, the more I suspect the MIPS benefit is based on test rigs without the dynamics of skin and hair.
A company that has embedded sensors and could evaluate the forces on 1000 crashed helmets with MIPS and without MIPS could actually answer this question with some reasonable data.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 2 months ago
MIPS has a thorough, and interesting, take on its website about why they don't consider the neck in their testing which is always something that surprised me.
They don't appear to have a write-up about hair. My understanding - which admittedly comes from someone selling MIPS, is that you have to consider the amount of pressure in an impact. Essentially the hair is an unreliable slip plain because it's being pushed down/held in place by force whereas the MIPS systems can still rotate consistently in the same circumstances.
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OldManBike
1 year, 2 months ago
I appreciate this review and think the questions it's asking about the tradeoff between mass and safety features, and about kid-optimized helmet design, are important ones. The more thoughtful discussion of helmet safety, the better.
To be clear, I've never even seen this helmet and I don't have any relevant professional expertise.
But my keyboard-warrior guess is that the Abus is protecting users against broken skulls from giant impacts, as reflected in its EN-1078 certification, and protecting teeth with its chinbar--but not much else. It appears to be a simple single-density EPS shell, making zero effort to manage smaller impacts or rotational forces. Yes, less mass (plus good coverage and a rounded form and the breakaway visor) probably does help to a degree. But, unlike others here, I'm very skeptical of the theory that a substantially lighter helmet with no concussion safety features--more or less a 90s helmet safety-wise--is better at reducing concussion risk than a good modern helmet that's trying to protect against smaller impacts and rotational forces.
If only it were that easy.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 2 months ago
Absolutely. It's the point I'm hitting at - specific to this lid - and also came up in a debate a couple of friends were having between the Kali Invader 2.0 (LDL layer, softer foam) and another, lighter-weight, lid both intended for trail use by adults.
Could a company use softer multi-density foam and build a product at a similar weight (for more money)? Certainly. Likewise, if Bell, for example, did a Super-Kid where the chin bar hardware and general structure of the helmet was designed around groms could they split half the difference between the Super 3R and the ABUS? Yes. So in theory there's a unicorn product where the question doesn't have to be asked (it's a new question - can I afford it?).
All that said, other than night riding, Claire's been wearing the ABUS every ride because it's just that much lighter-weight and more comfortable over long rides. But I don't ask the question lightly here, because I really am torn between the two options.
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OldManBike
1 year, 2 months ago
I agree with your observations elsewhere here about the maddening opacity of helmet-safety research and about parenting & protection being lots of guesswork. Still so in the dark a decade after the Bicycling article on helmet safety. To me, the industry's failure to come up with an updated certification is simply indefensible.
Anyway, for what it's worth my own parenting/protection guesswork led me to Leatt's halfshell DBX 2 for my kid. She likes it a lot. Before that she had a Bell Super 3R MIPS with removable fullface, but she didn't like riding with the chinbar. She much prefers the lighter Leatt, and I believe in their 360 turbines more than I do regular mips.
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Squint
1 year, 2 months ago
These are the quandaries we are often put into when getting safety gear for our bairns, especially as they grow so fast and can switch between activities. Compromise on a multi-sport lid or get a sport-specific? Comfort vs safety, especially when some of their peers aren't being required to wear the same protective gear?
Rider fatigue can contribute to higher risk of crash; definitely why over the years I've spent for premium motorcycle helmets that leave me more alert after hours in the saddle. Nod to the lighter lid here.
But Bell has been making helmets forever; Abus makes locks. The decision would be different if the lighter lid was from a manufacturer with legacy, weight and tech besides.
I think where I would go with this, were it my decision for one of my kids: What if? What if there was a crash in the Abus and there was a head injury? Would it have been milder, or prevented in the Bell? No way to know, but that "maybe" would devastate me.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 2 months ago
It’s an interesting note about helmet design. For example, I know that Brad from Kali designed Leatt lids as well as a few others, so not having a history of helmet manufacturing doesn’t necessarily weigh against a brand.
ABUS has had commuter lids on the market for years and my understanding is they hired an experienced team for their mountain bike program - BUT, it probably should be (if it isn’t) in a companies best interest to talk about the helmet experience they’re employing when they’re new to lids.
Parenting and protection is a series of unknown best guesses of course. It’s like knee pads - better to pedal in and more dynamic movement might prevent crashes (as may a much lighter lid) but when it comes to putting her knee into a rock what’s the best option?
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Timer
1 year, 2 months ago
Fwiw, ABUS has been making cutting edge road helmets for years now. Some of their stuff is pushing the envelope of what is possible in helmet construction and manufacturing.
So, while they might not have a long history of making mtb helmets, the certainly have very skilled engineers.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 2 months ago
Thanks, I was familiar with their commuter line from seeing them in shops. I don’t follow fancy road stuff much but they have some impressive looking stuff!
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Bikeryder85
1 year, 2 months ago
This comment has been removed.
Sweaman2
1 year, 2 months ago
I think weight is very important especially for young bodies. Proportionally the head weighs considerably more for a child compared to an adult even before you add on extra weight of a helmet. I've got sweajnr in an Extra Small IXS Trigger FF that weighs 520g on my uncalibrated scales.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 2 months ago
I like that the Trigger has a fixed chin bar. We only remove my daughters for extended car-free fire road climbs in the hottest months, so the use case for it coming off isn't critical.
An extra hundred grams for something designed for adults may be a worthwhile trade, but there again you're choosing weight over tech since there's no MIPS, or competing, rotational system. Definitely on my list of helmets to check out.
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Sweaman2
1 year, 2 months ago
I have been known to carry sweajnr's full face and normal helmet (whilst I ride one with a detachable chin bar) just so we have both options on the ride. I don't think the IXS will pass the strudel test...
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Andrew Major
1 year, 2 months ago
HAHA, the strudel test is a new metric. It's much tighter on the ABUS which is probably a good thing.
It's interesting, when we were riding in Cumberland or when we were climbing the gravel road up Fromme I'll carry Claire's chin bar for her on a hot day, no problem. And if that was our regular M.O. then I'd care more about it being removable.
But we tend to ride technical climbs and she eats it awkwardly going uphill as much as downhill. She's put her chin bar into a few rocks high-siding off the trail. I'm also informed by the fact that I wear a chin bar ~ fulltime now and after a few rides I was perfectly used to it for technical climbs. I'm not a helmet evangelist - I'll take my lid right off for long car-free gravel climbs, but on the trail once I committed to wearing the full face I haven't looked back.
It's an interesting aspect of the gravel riding I do because very occasionally I'll be on (light) single track with 40c tires and an open lid where I'd otherwise find myself with a 2.8" front tire, slack geo, and a chin bar. Such is life.
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Allen Lloyd
1 year, 2 months ago
I have been thinking about weight as it applies to my ski helmet. Concussions are bad, but so is whiplash. Having a heavier helmet make the risk of whiplash higher. I type this today with a sore neck after taking a spill skiing yesterday, would I have the same pain if my helmet was lighter? Maybe.
My skiing has been progressing faster than my biking so I fall more often and the falls are starting to get consequential. This whole weight vs. protection thing has been on my mind a ton. Last year I fell on ice and got a concussion, this year I have fallen a couple times and had neck injuries. Finding the right balance is something I continue to research.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 2 months ago
Concussion research and helmets seem to be a black hole leading to a conclusion as opaque as the ending of 2001: A Space Oddity. I remember when Trek's WaveCel came out and a friend said the marketing read like something you'd get from a JW on the sidewalk as opposed to anything about the science of safety - and yeah, sometimes when I hear folks talking about MIPS it sounds more like a religion than anything. This makes sense when you consider humans have always adopted myths to explain the things we don't understand.
I think with helmets it still comes down to fit first. Then in my case the field is narrowed down significantly by chin bar or no chin bar. Then the GRAMS vs. MIPS discussion starts.
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DanL
1 year, 2 months ago
I had exactly the same thoughts when I picked up Dainese's new Linea helmet at Crankworx this year, it was too light to be true - almost like a cooler from Canadian Tire. But it came with the full set of certifications. My only concern would be the wind blowing it off a table (I'm not cool enough to be able to perch it on my head)
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Andrew Major
1 year, 2 months ago
I don't know if I'm bold enough for the Linea's visor, but in general, it's an impressively light and full-featured lid. Where did you try it on for fit? How does it fit compared to other helmets you've used?
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Briain
1 year, 2 months ago
I actually bought one. The fit is tailored by changing out the pads so for me it's excellent. I actually like the look of the helmet and the visor is so clever it's completely flexible so shouldn't dig in in a crash. I really think UCI need to change the rules stipulating that mtb helmets have to have peaks. But back to the helmet, Dainese owns AGV and the linea is manufactured by them. They seem to broadly use the same tech as POC. Haven't tested the helmet it out but it's comfortable and so light plus I'm really sold on fidlock buckles
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DanL
1 year, 2 months ago
I made a B-Line (geddit?) to the Dainese table at Crankworx as I've been following in Dainese's entry to mtb products after wearing their gear for motorcycling and seeing their tech progressions in MotoGP safety equipment.
Next year you should be able to find them easily-er as according the their rep, apparently, they're going to bring a Ducati GP bike and start it up at midday every day, for whatever that's worth...
Like Briain said, the pads swapping in and out really made it a win. I could get it as comparably snug as my 7iDP fullface but with the very weird feeling of wearing a lot less which takes getting used to when mentally considering protection.
I'd love to ride in one but only got the chance to run around near the stand and shake my head around. I'd rather have had D-rings but that's my preference and muscle memory, fidlock is just as good.
All it needs is a Valentino Rossi replica paintjob and I'd be pre-ordering.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 2 months ago
I love Fidlock! If I ever have it come undone by accident I’ll get back on team d-ring.
Ah, makes sense that I missed them. Last year, and this year coming up, I skipped Crankworx for Cumberlandworx. Would have liked to see the Dainese lid, but don’t regret the choice.
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DanL
1 year, 2 months ago
I've enjoyed following all the pictures/stories that Vik and yourself have posted from riding that area, it's on the list for this year.
As noisy and sometimes detached from what I love about mountain biking as Crankworx can get, watching Lemoine's send did make it a good day out.
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Ripbro
1 year, 2 months ago
I originally purchased an ixs trigger MIPS FF, however I returned it because it was the loudest helmet I have ever used. The mips liner would squeak and squawk riding down the street. Get on a trail, and it was so loud, it was distracting. I exchanged it for the non-mips trigger FF. I use it for every ride, 30+ Celsius, doesn’t matter. I love it. The potential advantages of mips weren’t enough to overcome the squeaks lol.
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