Editorial
Free Your Junk (and Ditch your Chamois)
Before we get too deep into this musty story, I want to make it abundantly clear this perspective comes from the owner of a properly mis-matched set of male junk. While it would undoubtedly be ghastly and salacious, I don't think it's necessary, or particularly appropriate, to describe in detail how my junk might differ from other male junk. Despite my certainty that men's bits are knobbly, awkward, asymmetrical snowflakes, with no... trio exactly alike, it's not unreasonable to assume there will be some parallels between the experience of my bits and those of many other men. What I cannot do is extrapolate how this tainted journey might have been different for someone with female junk. This isn't meant to be prescriptive for anyone, but this is particularly true for women. This is simply the story of how I've come to learn what feels best between me and my saddle. /proviso (with more info for women at the bottom of this article)
When I began mountain biking I just wore shorts. Whatever shorts happened to be around, although in that era you can be sure they were very short. That was pre-boxers for me so my shorts' subterranean counterparts were always tighty whiteys, and as I recall, it worked okay for the brief rides I did at the time. This was 1984 and I was working at a Boulevard Bikes in Vancouver and I hoovered up every bit of advice my two more experienced co-workers, Graham and Wayne, let slip. They were fast and experienced riders, particularly considering how young mountain biking was, and they were also adept mechanics. Anything they said was gospel; and they wore black lycra cycling shorts.
In those days most everything in mountain biking was pilfered from road riders, which meant fingerless gloves, toeclips, and of course shiny lycra shorts with a genuine leather chamois. Mountain bike-specific clothing or protection, including helmets, was years away so we were indistinguishable from roadies aside from the grins on our faces and the speckles of mud on our chins.
It was all chamois all the time. I never questioned it or considered an alternative and I simply assumed I was more comfortable because of my leather (and eventually synthetic) nappy. Once I added baggies to my wardrobe, as I moved from the XC world to downhill and freeriding, I continued to compress my junk into a steamy mess against my lower abdomen, assuming this was the best case scenario. I did this for five hour pedals, bike park laps, DH races, and local shuttles; I assumed pleather pampers were helping me out.
And at times they were coming to my aid however. My wife Cristina and I rode our mountain bikes from Budapest to Genova in 1998 and then from Genova to Amsterdam in 1999, and I'm sure I wouldn't have made it without several pairs of good quality chamois, particularly when I got the idea to shave my taint hair in Hungary, for what I assumed would be additional comfort, but instead gave myself razor burn. This was when I tragically discovered Vaseline isn't sold in the Magyar Republic.
There were also occasional pairs of padded cycling shorts I found more comfortable. Helly Hansen's brief foray into mountain biking included relatively loose fitting pair of chamois with a soft fabric that wicked well. I wore them until the chamois padding was as thin as tracing paper. Mostly though, I endured them.
Finally it dawned on me, far too recently, and in the age of boxers, that wearing a chamois on days without sustained saddle efforts was like wearing an N95 mask on a solo ride 60 kilometres into the rainforest; there was no benefit and lots of complimentary discomfort for no benefit. Bike park and shuttle days became vastly more pleasant and my bits had a little more freedom and ventilation, and I imagined, without much research, they looked less pruney at the end of the day.
This continued for a long time, and long after I had switched to boxer briefs, and even as the men's ginch (or gonch if you prefer) revolution took hold. Someone realized that the (decidedly minor) burden of testicles is less onerous if they aren't forced to pancake against your thighs. Pouches for your package have become relatively common and I find these, made by 2UNDR, BN3TH (formerly My Pakage and pronounced 'beneath'), Saxx and others, to be vastly more comfortable than a chamois or traditional men's undergarment for moderately long pedal rides, and on bike park or shuttle days they were spectacular.
This also lasted for several years, during which time more options became available for premium men's undergarments. There were models made specifically for sport, with longish legs, and smooth material that wicked well, and knit fabric or other materials that worked more than adequately. This was when I decided to completely stop putting my testicles in an all-day crock pot.
Early on in my mountain biking career I was both a Luddite and a late adopter, but eventually I was convinced to try riding flat pedals. My first ride on flats was on a trail called the Crazy Carpenter at the BCIT Woodlot in Maple Ridge, near Vancouver. As you can imagine it was all elaborate ladder bridges, skinnies and drops to flat, and I expected to be slipping pedals and botching moves, but instead I was hooked five minutes into the trail. Ditching my chamois for every ride, including long pedals, was like that as well. My first long pedal without the pad made it clear I'd made the right decision. My nether regions felt cooler and vastly less swampy and at the end of the ride I could sit down for a beer in the same gear without feeling like I was wearing a soiled and dampened diaper.
There is no chamois in this photo. My current favourite garment to wear below my baggies, is a pair of long leg boxer briefs from 2UNDR, but I've had good results with most of the pouched underpants I've worn.
While this was an idea whose time had come, because someone had finally made some men's underwear that included provisions for our nasty, dangly, protrusions, I still felt like I'd been cheated for not knowing this sooner. A friend suggested my ability to ditch the chamois was related to my relatively regular and full riding schedule, and while that may be true, I don't think he ever tried it. I should also note that if I was going to do some extended saddle time, like a multi-day trip in the Chilcotins, or even a slog up to Lord of the Squirrels in Whistler, I'd go back to the cham rather than chance some more problematic discomfort.
If you would like to give this a try, drop a few shekels on some good quality, pouched pantaloons, and start with efforts that don't involve more than an hour of sustained seated pedalling at a time. If that works you can start pushing the experiment to see if your results are as positive as mine. If they are, your junk will thank you.
Addendum For Women
When I told her about this article, Cristina mentioned that two of her long-time cycling pals had tried something similar; wearing regular underwear for a mountain bike ride. I didn't get details, so I can't tell you if they were closer to granny pants or thongs, but I can share the one word review one of them gave the experience; revolutionary.
A little more prodding provided a more thorough response; "Okay....from what I remember.....it wasn’t as bad as I thought it was going to be...but if I were to ride chamois-less...I would want 1) a better saddle 2) shorts without a center seam (lol) and maybe a thin liner/boy shorts/underwear?
It was definitely cooler and felt more free, but my bum was sore and I don't think it did any favours for the 'saddle sore-ish' spots. I would try it again though...and maybe not on the Uncomfortable Bum trail!!*
*This is a nickname for the Comfortably Numb trail in Whistler
Height - 6'/183cm (mostly legs)
Weight - 170lbs/77kg
Inseam - 33"/84cm
Ape Index - 0.986
Age - 58
Trail I've been stoked on lately - Sam's Dad's Trail
Bar Width - 760mm
Preferred Reach - 485-500mm (longer with 27.5 wheels than 29)
Comments
Cr4w
3 years, 7 months ago
100%. I switched to Saxx Kinetic briefs a few seasons ago and haven't looked back. Improved bike ergonomics surely played a role (hello steep seat angles and a proper width saddle) but for all but the longest rides I'm good without chamois.
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Perry Schebel
3 years, 7 months ago
yer. have not used a chamois since the xc racing days (many years ago); can't stand the feel. synthetic boxxer briefs ftw.
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Pnwpedal
3 years, 7 months ago
This is REALLY hitting home for me right now, as the last couple trips home in a swamp-ass soaked chamois were notably unpleasant. I guess I could do the "towel around my waist and change my underwear" thing at the trailhead parking lot but it would only take one mishap to have everyone pointing and laughing at me (or calling the cops). But perhaps a saddle swap and some good underwear would solve the problem and bring other benefits too.
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IslandLife
3 years, 7 months ago
Yes! Free the junk! Ditch the gooch! Have been trying (with no luck yet) to convert my riding buddies.. not sure why they are so attached to theirs... One says he likes his whole bib set-up and spent a dime on it. Says "it holds it all together, ya know" Pfft... lose 20 pounds or just get a classic wrestling singlet I say! He didn't like that suggestion much.
Ditched mine in June this year and haven't looked back. Not sure if it was pure placebo effect, but it actually felt like it improved my performance... not sure how to explain it... I just felt more loose and free... riding felt less formal? Like the gooch is now reserved for more important and significant rides... like a tuxedo vs jorts.. idk... Either way, the chamois is in the trash... longer rides, short rides, DH, XC, shuttle, park, enduro... all the rides! Loving it! I use Arc'teryx boxer briefs that I use for snowboarding and mtb'ing. Long epics (formal rides), I'll toss that fucker back on... but it's like I can hear tiny muffled screams of "NOoooo!!" as I stuff my junk down into the deep, dark, damp depths of the dagobah gooch...
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AJ Barlas
3 years, 7 months ago
“I continued to compress my junk into a steamy mess against my lower abdomen…”
Thanks for the laughs, Cam! I can tell you thoroughly enjoyed writing this.
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mrbrett
3 years, 7 months ago
"tainted journey"... hah
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Brian Goldstone
3 years, 7 months ago
ironically it looks like BN3TH is about to release a chamois'd boxer brief this week.
for short rides and park I've been going sans pad lately but no way on longer rides. Like everything there are variety options and i think most people's experience with a mtb chamois is the cheap foam liner one that comes with a pair of shorts. lots of good options for a better chamois are out there now.
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Cam McRae
3 years, 7 months ago
This wasn’t a coincidence Brian. I was talking to them about the product (we’ll be trying some) and it spurred me to write this piece that I’ve been thinking about for ages.
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Endur-Bro
3 years, 7 months ago
Just had the pleasure of scrolling past their “North Shore chamois” ad on FB.
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Kevin26
3 years, 7 months ago
Lululemon men's athletic underwear is a great option too.
I think it's all a personal preference/fit thing. With the right saddle it's easier to ditch it, and might depend on your bum too.
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TucsonMike
3 years, 7 months ago
For me getting a narrower saddle made a huge difference on extended climbs. Never used a chamois for mountain biking but now that I’ve gotten one for road biking I may consider it on rare 1-2 hour dirt road climbs on some of the trails in the southwest. Did a 4K dirt road climb the other day and I did feel ok but a little more padding may have made the drive home more pleasant.
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Pete Roggeman
3 years, 7 months ago
For rides that long where you're in the saddle as much as you would have been, for me the cham comes into play for sure. Anything 2 hrs and under, though, I leave it behind.
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John Keiffer
3 years, 7 months ago
I'm in process of trying to make this kind of switch. The main problem I have is that all the options appear to have seams in the crotch area. In order to have true bike-able garments, I'd like to see the seams moved to the outside of the leg or something similar. In general, I think not having seams in the crotch area would benefit both men and women. However, I can't be certain until something like that is available, because I'm not sure if seems on the outside or back of the legs would be bothersome as well. But I'd guess they would be.
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Hbar
3 years, 7 months ago
I agree. Do any of these non-chamois undergarments have seams near the sit-bone areas, or the thigh-glute junction? Those are the main problem areas (for me) & saddle sores/chafing
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Cam McRae
3 years, 7 months ago
Here is the back of the BN3TH model I posted on the front page.
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John Keiffer
3 years, 7 months ago
I want to see the seams not in the crotch, as that is a main contact point when sitting on a saddle. I also don't like the seams coming under the cheeks. But the seams on the outside of the cheeks seems fine. I guess my question for garment makers like this is why not have the seems on the outside of the leg? I'd even entertain less structure in the front if that meant it was easier to put seams out of the areas that would cause saddle and pedaling conflicts.
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AJ Barlas
3 years, 7 months ago
I’ve been riding chamois-less for a few years now and I haven’t had much luck with any pouched options so far. The seams, as a couple are mentioning, cause more discomfort than by regular cotton Calvins.
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Michael Klein
3 years, 7 months ago
Mons Royale Hold’em Boxxers don’t have crotch seams. Before I discovered those, I allways rode commando wich limited my choice of shorts to ones with mesh liners, now I can wear whatever. On top of that, they’re made of Merino Wool which makes them perfect for multiday trips. Just bring two pairs and alternate between them, and if they get too nasty, rinse and let dry. They never get smelly and the wool eliminates any bacteria.
With the Mons’ and a Chromag Trailmaster I can do two-three days (6-7 hours a day) trips whitout getting too sore. I have ridden bicycles all of my 51 year old life though.
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AJ Barlas
3 years, 7 months ago
Will have to check these out. Thanks!
John Keiffer
3 years, 7 months ago
Sucks that they are all sold out of all sizes but small!
I like the sound of those and that they are wool. They do have seams though, that look like they would hit where the saddle and body interface with each other. Those are the best I've seen though.
With bibs, I often find that I get rubbed the wrong way in the crotch. Specifically at the top of the inner leg. I guess that's what I'm calling the crotch. When I rode with some fitted boxers like the ones we are all talking about, I found that the seams effected closer to my sit bones. If I had ridden longer, it might have been a problem. However, it wasn't as bad as getting a blister at the top of my inner leg/taint/ball area.
Michael Klein
3 years, 7 months ago
The Hold Em’s become more loose with wear until you wash/soak them, but you shouldn’t do that every time with wool. Just shake them and let them rest for a day or two (unless you’ve been really scared😀).
fartymarty
3 years, 7 months ago
+1 for the Chromag Trailmaster Ltd. Once the leather top softens they're super comfy.
Timer
3 years, 7 months ago
If companies can make seamless underwear for women, why has noone made similar stuff for men? Or maybe they have, but i haven't found them.
Maybe men need to start wearing sheer, figure hugging pants, so that the undergarment industry has an incentive. Any volunteers?
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yahs
3 years, 7 months ago
What I wear under my shorts is my business. I find this thread offensive and now will be hiding in my safe place.
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Cam McRae
3 years, 7 months ago
Should have posted a trigger warning! LOL
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abuxton
3 years, 7 months ago
I found the taint shaving story particularly disturbing. lol
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Cam McRae
3 years, 7 months ago
It was much more disturbing to live through!
Pete Roggeman
3 years, 7 months ago
Most of the brands mentioned have sport- or cycling-specific designs with the seams placed strategically. You are right that a lot of their 'regular' options may not crossover perfectly between daily wear and riding. The other benefit to the sport-specific designs are the added elasticity and, sometimes, mild compression, which I also prefer for riding (and don't mind wearing around off the bike, either).
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Vincent66
3 years, 7 months ago
I've been riding for the last 5 years with cheap uniqlo seamless boxer shorts (less than $10) under my riding shorts.
I don't miss the full diaper effect on wet rides ...
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bushtrucker
3 years, 7 months ago
Totally agree with this approach. I would go one step further and recommend pure merino wool underwear if you can get ya hands on it. I find synthetics to be pretty bad from both a hygiene and environmental point of view. I haven't worn anything but these while riding for a few years now, including a couple of 7 day straight / 1000km rides, with not a saddle sore to be found.
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Agleck7
3 years, 7 months ago
Agree. Been sans diaper for last few years and my best results are merino boxxer briefs i got on amazon.
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Vincent66
3 years, 7 months ago
Could you post a link on which model you're riding ?
I had a pair of IceBreaker : the were great, but very expensive and did not last long on the saddle ...
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rolly
3 years, 7 months ago
My butt is too bony. That's the main reason I wear them. I've got an awesome WTB Volt saddle at the proper width, which helps, but without the extra padding it's not comfortable. And Saxx etc are not cheap!
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AJ Barlas
3 years, 7 months ago
I have a helluva bony behind and with the right saddles have been able to ride without a diaper for years. It is possible!
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Kerry Williams
3 years, 7 months ago
Fully agree. Another bony arse here and, as proof, just yesterday I did my biggest ride in years, 40 kms, 5 hrs all dirt roads and trails and the worst part was riding for about 40 minutes on a flat dirt road. This used to hurt even when I wore a chamois because I rarely spend that much time going neither up or down and it puts a different kind of pressure on the old behind. My Jockey long leg briefs are the ticket!
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hambobet
3 years, 7 months ago
any saddle recommendations for another boney bummed bandit?
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Cam McRae
3 years, 7 months ago
Lol. I’m on Team Bony-bummed bandit as well and I’ve generally been most comfy on WTB. An issue without much meat back there is saddles that are too soft because my femur heads tend to push right through. The Silverado works for me but I’m going to try a deva shortly to see how that is.
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fartymarty
3 years, 5 months ago
Cam - how does this compare to a Chromag Trailmaster LTD? I've got one on each bike and have been chamoisless for a good few years now.
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Cam McRae
3 years, 4 months ago
I can't say my ass is familiar Marty, but I'm generally keen on Chromag stuff.
fartymarty
3 years, 4 months ago
Cam - Its a similar shape to the Azonic Journey seat from a few years back just with a leather top.
Vik Banerjee
3 years, 7 months ago
I haven't worn an adult diaper in decades. No special underwear either, but I do have saddles that fit me well.
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AJ Barlas
3 years, 7 months ago
Saddle is key for sure. Replacing them more often and getting something quality is fine for the comfort in my books.
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HollyBoni
3 years, 7 months ago
I bought some Under Armour O series 6" boxerjocks. They're so much more comfy and cooler than cotton underwear, but on the bike I can't make them work even on 2-3 hour rides.
I bought some Endura Hummvee shorts that came with very basic undershorts/liners. They cost about $25-30, so not high end stuff. The chamois is basic and thin. These feel super comfy, they barely feel warmer than boxers, and when i'm off the bike it feels like the chamois is barely even there. No diaper feeling. Sadly the padding packs out pretty quickly, and looses it's rebound and hardness.
I tried thicker liners from Decathlon that have gel inserts in the chamois, and also more expensive Endura Singletrack liners, both of them feel horrible and create pressure points that are not there even with just regular underwear.
Maybe I need a better fitting saddle, not sure.
BTW you can buy vaseline in Hungary nowadays. 😁
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Cam McRae
3 years, 7 months ago
I would have sold my soul for some in 1998! It felt like I had a lit sparkler in my chamois all day long!
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fartymarty
3 years, 7 months ago
Try Decathlon's lycra running shorts. They're super cheap and thin (like a lycra tight fitting boxer).
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Chad K
3 years, 7 months ago
Even though I like the idea about riding without a bib, I still think that will remain my personal choice in the end for 2 reasons. 1) Where I ride does not have a ton of elevation and undulates very rapidly, so a large portion of my ride is spent seated and pedaling around on trails that are absolutely full of roots. The bit of extra padding definitely helps cut some of the sting from that after 2-4 hours on the bike. The second reason is that I use SWAT bibs when on my mtb and love having the pockets so that I rarely need a pack. Really helps on those rides that are in and around 100*F.
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Greg Bly
3 years, 7 months ago
I like to let the plums dangle. Occasionally I get a back swing when I sit down. Wakes you up faster than slaming a grande Sumatra.
Get a comfortable seat. It can't be good for the jewels to be bunched up in an uncomfortable bundle.
I wasn't aware that people other than the peculiar dressed rodies wore chamois. I did 20 years ago . Always felt like a sweaty diaper.
As for chafing. We are all different in anatomy. Finding the correct undie and short combo is important. Sometimes I just were shorts. Sorry if that too much information.
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Jonas Dodd
3 years, 7 months ago
I have occasionally ridden in boxer briefs but (no pun intended) I find the lack of support a bit unnerving as I've been wearing a chamois under my riding shorts since the 90s.
I find if I don't wear a chamois there's also a much greater chance that I'll end up crushing a testis between my leg and the seat. OUCH! TMI?
Also, I've been using chamois butt'r on long rides for the past few years and get no chafe even after being on the bike for 6-8 hours. Prior to this, chafing was a regular and painful experience that made multi-day rides much more difficult.
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tashi
3 years, 7 months ago
Plus one to this. I’ve worn boxer briefs on rides in the past and seem to painfully smack a nut each time without fail. Fucking ouch. I’ll keep on with the chamois instead of feeling that again.
Also SWAT pockets.
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Cam McRae
3 years, 7 months ago
Support is no issue at all with the ginch I wear. Overall I think it's better than with a chamois.
Good tip on the chamois butter. Would have loved some of that in Hungary!
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Pete Roggeman
3 years, 7 months ago
The pouch, sir. The pouch takes care of the dangling and crushed testes. It can not, however, take on magical properties and overcome the need for chamois butter - if you're on a ride long enough to need that stuff, you need the big guns.
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khai
3 years, 7 months ago
I've been 100% in the chamois-free camp for all but the longest rides where I know I'll be grinding uphill for a long slog. (LOTS, bikepacking, etc.) But THIS just might change things... https://www.bikemag.com/gear/apparel/first-impressions-bn3th-north-shore-chamois/
https://www.bn3th.ca/products/north-shore-bike-chamois-black
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mike
3 years, 7 months ago
#valleysuckridetheshore Check out KK today. My buddy has been giving it love for years. A secondary exit and some new features.
Now onto shorts. Been there done that. I pay more for a quality fitting saddle. Shorts for me are DryWear from Mark,s . They did do a bike short. It,s a longer leg as well . Adds some leg warmth for those in shorts all year.
As for the shaving incident LOL . If you road in the early 90,s pretty sure most had that happen LOL. Trimming and grooming works better IMO. Traps some moisture to keep the junk cooler.
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Karl Fitzpatrick
3 years, 7 months ago
Apart from chilled pump track sessions or slow rides with my groms, I've been riding NZOactive Dobies (that have a fleece pad) for the last 11 years with no more than generic boxer brief 'gruts'.
I never got on with the cham and sometimes actually piked on rides entirely in the early 2000s because I hated them so much...
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John Keiffer
3 years, 7 months ago
The other issue about all this is the expense. Because I've spend a lot on money on bibs already. Spent a lot of money on saddles too. Now I want fancy undies. And I'm still not sure what saddle I should be one, because I'm not sure I've ever stumbled onto the perfect combo of saddle/clothing/ass yet. LOL
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Cam McRae
3 years, 7 months ago
I am mostly of Scottish descent and I sympathize with this. I too have some very nice bibs and chamois and it offends my Highland ethos to spend money on anything else. But you could say the same thing about 26" wheels, fixed seatposts and barends!
You also don't have to break the bank on fancy ginch. I found some nice but pouchless undergarments at Costco today and I think it was 3 pairs for $14.
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John Keiffer
3 years, 7 months ago
Does anyone who mostly doesn't use a chamois, do you prefer saddle that are a little softer? A little wider? I rode 25 miles on the road bike yesterday without pad and with WTB Silverado. I think narrow is better, but probably only for me on road bikes. But the saddle feels a little harder without the pad, and I kinda wonder if a softer saddle would help. In the past I fully bought into the soft saddles are worse (due to more soft tissue compression), but maybe that's something to revisit?
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SiT
2 years, 10 months ago
Hey did this article get deleted? just see the comments now, but the original article?
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SiT
2 years, 10 months ago
Cheers Cam, all back and visible now.
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SiT
2 years, 10 months ago
Cheers Cam, all back and visible now.
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