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DREAM BUILDS

Alex Sinanan's Geometron G-1

Words Deniz Merdano
Photos Deniz Merdano
Date Jul 16, 2021
Reading time
Presented By
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Hi Alex, tell us a little about yourself and your riding history.

I’ve been riding since the early 90s. I grew up in Toronto when high end bikes were barely a thing. I grew up around a shop called Cycle Logic that was one of the first shops in Canada to carry early exotic brands like Pace, Ibis, Specialized, Moots, Merlin, Whiskey Town and Bridgestone. That shop exposed me to early technical riding, such as it was in Toronto at that point. I ultimately moved to BC for university and to continue riding! The bike I brought with me to BC was a custom bike from Toronto called a Cameron. It was made by hand by a retired aeronautical engineer/toolmaker. He made every single part on that bike by hand except for the shock. It was a really cool bike but it didn’t last long in BC. Fun fact: Andrew Major met this bike at UVic around that time in the late 90s.

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The ultra adjustable Geometron

I love riding here in the S2S. I love big climbs and steep technical descents. I’d say I do most of my riding on the Shore and Eagle and now that COVID restrictions are lifting I have a lot of catching up to do in the Fraser Valley, Squamish and Whistler valley trails. Whistler west side trails are my perfect trails.

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2020 Geometron G1 XL

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no messing around.. EXT Storia shock

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Rare, yet familiar beast in this part of the world

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What is your bike stable and history like? What was the path that led you to the geometron?

I’ve tried having multiple bikes but I always end up wishing I had brought the other bike. My G1 is set up as a super aggressive climbable monster descender - it’s perfect up and down the S2S corridor. My current stable includes the G1, a progressive Ti hardtail and a Ti gravel bike. I spent most of last year exclusively on the hardtail but now I ride pretty much just the G1 and the gravel bike.

In the 90s I had a bunch of early hardtails like a Ritchey Ascent Comp and a Bridgestone MB1. Like a lot of us I went through a slew of bikes as riding evolved in the late 90s and beyond. Broken BBs, disc brakes, bigger heavier tires, early suspension, etc. I was always the alpha bike nerd in my riding circles. I went from the Cameron to a Psycle Werx Wild Hare with a Hanebrink fork (ultimately switched to a White Brothers UD150). I ran that Hanebrink on a Rocky Mountain Reaper hardtail frame for a while. The best of the bunch was a Turner RFX with a Stratos MX6.

That was a different time which younger riders might find hard to appreciate. Production bikes were woefully inadequate. The boutique bikes were expensive, finicky, inconsistent and very hard to keep running and the DH bikes that had the travel we needed were focused on racing not on pedalling or surviving slow speed big impacts. It was normal to have a major mechanical and at least one flat tire per ride.

I sold the Turner just in time to get one of the first generation Knolly V-Tachs around 2004 or 2005. I had a couple of other Knollys which I absolutely loved but I sought out an Enduro S-Works 26” around 2011 that had a tall head tube and steep seat tube and I never looked back.

I flipped from the latest most progressive big guy bike to the next until I finally acknowledged that they were all too damn small and committed to a Geometron G16. I loved the G16 but I had many of the same issues AJ had with it. The G16 was so close; the G1 was everything the G16 wanted to be.

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what do we think of these welds?

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::drool::

What makes a good bike geometry?

The big realization is that production bicycles generally fit people up to about 6’3”. Most bikes are optimized for M-L riders and everyone else has to make do with compromises because companies don’t want to go the extra mile to ensure that bikes actually fit. I think that’s unacceptable for a $6000+ bicycle.

For a taller rider, production bike geometry has always been a huge compromise. You’re either endo-ing downhill because the wheelbase is too short to balance against your high center of gravity or you’re flipping over backwards when climbing because of a rearward weight bias due to slack seat angles and short rear centers. It took a leap of faith to buy a bike that most didn’t understand to solve a problem that few others had. It’s easy to balk at someone making exotic choices when they are sitting right at the apex of the bell curve themselves.

Geometron for a long time was the only company that approached geometry differently: multiple chainstay lengths, varying seat tube angles by size, mutators, taller stacks and an XXL size that was truly monstrous and proportional. I find it amusing that other companies are finally getting on board with this and they’re acting all virtuous, like they weren’t dragged here kicking and screaming by consumer demand.

My G1 is the XL size running the 41mm CS and 10mm SS mutators which yields pretty much the biggest XL bike you can buy from any company.

535mm Reach

63” HA

78” ESTA

452mm CS

25mm BB drop

1330 WB

Generally I leave my bike alone until I notice something is off and then I embark on a process of experimentation but so far that has not been necessary. This configuration works so well that I haven’t even considered swapping mutators. I could definitely set it up more extreme but so far this configuration has been great.

This is the best fitting bike I’ve ever had. It’s the first bike that really truly works for me. I feel like I’m well balanced and centered in the wheelbase and it’s got enough stack that I don’t have to run lots of spacers or a high rise bar.

It’s easy to drive the G1 really hard uphill or down and it’s possible to configure it to do well at both tasks at the same time. It’s the most comfortable climbing position I’ve yet been able to achieve yet still have perfect descending performance. I can climb anything on his bike and it’s an absolute monster on steeps. The only real trick is tight uphill switchbacks. Every climb has that one switchback which only has one arc my bike will fit so I have to be extra precise.

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12deg sweep bars

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The sweep is evident here

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Comfy Ergo grips

Tell us about the Custom Hardtail a little

When I realized I wasn’t happy with my G16 I figured it would be worth trying a progressive HT. Maybe a compliant titanium frame with a big fork and super progressive geometry would give me what I need. Maybe I could just do without the full suspension frame that companies seemed intent on not making.

I did a lot of research and ended up ordering a frame from Waltly in China. I designed the frame from the ground up. I knew that a North American brand could do the same thing but I wanted to learn about hardtail geometry first hand and for the price of a single domestic Ti frame I could get three from Waltly and figure it out for myself. I was tired of people telling me what was supposed to work for tall guys (which always seemed to coincide with what was most convenient for them) so I opted to do it myself.

My Ti hardtail:

63’ HTA

76’ ESTA

630mm Reach

448mm Rear Center

150mm Head Tube

66mm BB drop

I really like the soulful connective vibe of the hardtail but to ride it at the tempo where I get happy requires a lot of focus and physical commitment. Anything I can do on my G1 I can do with my hardtail, but it’s much harder on the body and the margin for error is lower. A cool hardtail is the perfect second/backup bike.

I think it’s good to have an heirloom quality hardtail around.

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Custom Ti Hardtail Alex got made

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It is all about the fit.

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Enough material in the head tube to machine out the logo

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Tuned by Suspension Werx North Vancouver

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Hand Laid in Canada WR1 rims

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Rail to Rail, G1

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Tell us about your suspension settings.

I’m running a 475lb spring on the EXT shock with sag closer to 30%. I like the bike to sit tall and peppy. The EXT stock rebound range is very fast to my taste so I had it revalved slower by Ben at Alba in Whistler. I’m still running the rebound maxed out and it still seems very fast on a parking lot test but I am riding better than ever so I’m just going with it.

I run around 101psi in my fork main chamber. I’m 3 positions down for the volume reducer. 3 clicks from open for HSC, LSC and rebound. I got happy on this fork almost right away. I made a few adjustments to the volume setting and main chamber pressure but within two rides I was at the settings I’ve been running ever since. I don’t mess with my fork too much other than dropping a few psi from the main chamber in the winter.

Generally speaking this bike was tricky to get dialled. Between the long wheelbase, steep seat angle and slack head angle the G1 requires a fair amount of adaptation. It took me close to 20 rides with lots of note taking before I got it pretty much perfect. This is a bike that rewards a systematic approach to setup. The end result is that I’m now riding faster more easily with a greater margin for error than before.

Do you set your bike up for comfort or speed?

I’m set up for speed - this is a hard to ride casually. I like my bikes set up taut and precise and smashy and it takes a special kind of bike to work well under those conditions under a big strong rider. I don’t really think of myself as speed-oriented but I’ve always set up my bikes this way so I guess I am. I like my speed to come from precision not recklessness.

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Integration and attention to detail throughout the frame

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Alex pushes these gears easy enough

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silver on silver on silver

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Look Pedals with Shimano SPD cleat system

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SQLabs in all the touch points.

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G-1

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Ride Wrap Shuttle guard

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Made in Germany

I love clipless pedals. So many people who don’t like clipless established that idea when pedals were little and shoes were too stiff and forced you to pedal on your toes. Once shoes became available that allowed you to position the cleat further back to better mimic your position with flat pedals - that’s when things changed. Now you can get a nice positive attachment for climbing but a balanced position for descending.

I found Shimano pedals great but they never had enough spring tension. Even at max with brand new cleats I’d blow out of them at the most inopportune moments. The Look X-Track En-Rage pedals have been perfect. Besides the ridiculous name they offer a good 30% more spring tension than XTR (mine aren’t even maxed out), are compatible with Shimano cleats and they’re tough as hell.

SQLab 30x carbon 12’ backsweep bar. I’ve been trying to resolve some nagging wrist issues and I was happy on the SQLab bar almost right away and my wrist stopped hurting soon after. Flex-wise it’s a very comfortable bar though I don’t know if that’s due to the carbon layup, the backsweep angle or the 31.8 clamp diameter. It’s also 780mmn wide which doesn’t seem to bother me at all despite me being much wider at the shoulder than most people.

Dear bike industry: I find it frustrating that there isn’t a universal measure for bar stiffness, just arbitrary anecdotes. I find it even more confounding that while multiple widths and rises are available they are only available with 5’ upsweep and 8’ backsweep, as if we are all identical in this respect. Another curious compromise everyone just accepts, along with saddles and grips. Seems to me that selling more ergonomic customization options would be more productive and meaningful than more unnecessary standards?

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2020 XL Geometron G1, dual 29

EXT Storia coil shock, 475lb spring

Cane Creek Helm Mk2, 160mm, 44mm

WR1 Convert Wheels w/ I9 Hydra hubs

11spd drivetrain: XT 11-42 / 32t front

Raceface Turbine Cranks 175mm

Rock Shox Reverb 200mm

DHF2.5 front, DHR2 2.5 rear, both EXO+, tubeless, Tannus tubeless inserts (cushcore at the time of the shoot)

Code RSC brakes, 200mm rotors

50mm Atlas stem

SQLab 30x carbon bar (30mm rise, 12' sweep)

SQLab 711 grips, size L

SQ Lab 611 Ergowave Active saddle 150mm

Look X-Track Enrage platform pedals

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Alex is the founder of NavasLab Clothing

Do you have huge bike envy?

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Comments

Wilson
+1 Geof Harries
Wilson  - July 16, 2021, 4:40 a.m.

Sick bike. Alex, do you mind sharing some of your dimensions. Also, who was your dealer for the frame? Did you consider the pinion version? And, how much of a bummer is it to have no water bottle bosses?

Reply

gdharries
0
Geof Harries  - July 16, 2021, 11:01 a.m.

Yes, me too. What's Alex's physical height, inseam and saddle height?

The XL only has a 475mm seat tube so with that 200mm dropper post, I'm curious.

Reply

craw
+1 Geof Harries
Cr4w  - July 16, 2021, 12:12 p.m.

6'6/198cm, 35.5" inseam. I couldn't run my 185 Bikeyoke Revive on this bike and they hadn't released the 210 yet. Until I can justify the expense to upgrade I'm slumming on the Reverb.

Reply

hongeorge
0
hongeorge  - July 18, 2021, 4 a.m.

What stopped you running the Bikeyoke? Run a 185 on my size L with room to spare

Reply

craw
+1 Whitesell1041
Cr4w  - July 16, 2021, 12:54 p.m.

I don't care about water bottles. I don't like strapping tons of stuff to my bike.

Reply

Sethsg
0
Sethsg  - July 16, 2021, 1:49 p.m.

What do you do for water on long rides? Do you use a backpack? It's easy for me when it's winter here in North Vancouver because there are tons of streams so just carry a Life Straw, but its a pain in summer and my bike doesn't have water bottle bosses so I sometimes come back dehydrated because I don't want to carry my full-sized backpack and there are none that are small enough that they don't bug me, and are big enough that I can carry my old film camera and a couple of lenses.

Reply

craw
0
Cr4w  - July 16, 2021, 3:01 p.m.

Osprey Raptor 14 pack. It's slim, super light, stays in place well, tons of clever storage. Does everything better than the smaller packs or hip packs I've tried. Plus I can carry way more water and I actually drink more on rides versus a bottle.

Reply

Sethsg
0
Sethsg  - July 17, 2021, 7:18 p.m.

Thanks!

craw
+2 AJ Barlas Endur-Bro
Cr4w  - July 16, 2021, 12:14 p.m.

I bought it direct from Geometron.

I have never ridden a Pinion so it wasn't really an option though I love the idea of a gearbox. Apparently Nicolai is releasing their own proprietary gearbox later this year. If anyone can make a great gearbox it's them. Maybe that will be cause to get a G2! (I have no idea if a G2 is in the works - they swore it was not)

Reply

Mojo16rider
+2 Cr4w Endur-Bro
Jakub Gábriš  - July 17, 2021, 4:44 a.m.

nicolai is co owner of pinion ;)

Reply

fartymarty
0
fartymarty  - July 16, 2021, 11:31 p.m.

You can always run and SKS anywhere mount.  I run one on my Murmur and it works well.

Reply

Vikb
0
Vik Banerjee  - July 16, 2021, 5:55 a.m.

Great looking bike. I'm glad you found something that works so well for you.

Reply

Gbergevin
0
Gbergevin  - July 16, 2021, 5:56 a.m.

Awesome rig. As a guy with giant hands that is constantly battling pain and numbness, I lovemy SQlab grips, but I noticed yours are 1. twisted along the bar axis. Mine do that naturally because the clamp sleeve is only about 1/3 of the grip, but I'm wondering if that is intentional on your part because 2. you also have the clamp set in a weird spot - they look almost upsidedown relative to mine.

Reply

craw
0
Cr4w  - July 16, 2021, 12:56 p.m.

Good question. I made sure to get L and R correct. Other than that I've just gone by feel. This way has good support for the outside of my palm. The bar and grips have required a fair bit of experimentation - should I roll the bar or roll the grips?

Reply

cooperquinn
+3 Deniz Merdano Cr4w DadStillRides
Cooper Quinn  - July 16, 2021, 8:43 a.m.

TIL, mid-July is Geometron Week on NSMB.com.

Reply

xy9ine
+3 Bushpilot BenHD 4Runner1
Perry Schebel  - July 16, 2021, 9:17 a.m.

haha. geometrons: so hot rn.

also - sweet, no-bs utilitarian build. my preferred aesthetic!

Reply

fartymarty
+2 moraucf ChocolateThunder
fartymarty  - July 16, 2021, 11:06 a.m.

That's because its the best bike ever made (IMHO)

Reply

craw
+3 AJ Barlas Deniz Merdano Pete Roggeman
Cr4w  - July 16, 2021, 7:53 p.m.

Deniz forgot to mention the bike's name is "The Black Metal Express".

Reply

denomerdano
0
Deniz Merdano  - July 17, 2021, 12:09 p.m.

Checked all my records and found no mention of "the black metal express"

But my memory fails me at times.

Reply

xy9ine
0
Perry Schebel  - July 17, 2021, 1:16 p.m.

*nods approvingly & tosses horns*

Reply

clipless
+1 JVP
Kyle Smith  - July 16, 2021, 9:24 a.m.

Is that 630 mm reach number for the hardtail a typo? If not, holy hell!

Reply

craw
0
Cr4w  - July 16, 2021, 12:06 p.m.

Should be 535!

Reply

joseph-crabtree
0
Joseph Crabtree  - July 16, 2021, 10:15 a.m.

Specs say 29x2.5 DHF EXO+ but the picture show's a 2.6. I'm digging the DHR2 2.6 for the chunk in the EXO+. It seems there is this stigmata about bigger tires, possibly a backlash over the Plus push a few years ago. I run what works.

Reply

craw
0
Cr4w  - July 16, 2021, 12:06 p.m.

I switched to a 2.6 I had lying around and I dislike it intensely. It's coming off today.

Reply

JVP
+1 Cr4w
JVP  - July 16, 2021, 1:22 p.m.

Interesting you say that. I tried a 2.6 DHR EXO (no insert) on the front of my bike and ditched it after a week of high-country trail riding. It felt super bouncy at speed. Really odd how different it felt to the usual DHF, Assegai, etc.

Reply

craw
0
Cr4w  - July 16, 2021, 7:55 p.m.

I'm having trouble sourcing the exact replacements I want so as of right now I'm running dual 29 EXO+ DHF maxterra 2.5s. Then I'll switch to a 2.5 maxxgrip 2.5 Assegai in winter.

Reply

Bushpilot
+2 moraucf Endur-Bro
Bushpilot  - July 16, 2021, 10:22 a.m.

The G1s are soooo hot right now.

Reply

morgan-heater
0
Morgan Heater  - July 16, 2021, 10:57 a.m.

How does the rear suspension on the G1 compare to the G16? I'm running a fox x2 on my G16, which is supposedly what the bike was designed around, but even at full allotment of spacers, and running 20% sag, I tend to bottom out regularly pretty harshly. Haven't really been able to get on with the way the back end works, even though I really like how it corners.

Reply

craw
0
Cr4w  - July 16, 2021, 12:11 p.m.

Hard to know for sure. I could never get those air shocks to work right. Too much main chamber pressure close to the stated limit and too many tokens. They always ended up sticky off the top and wallowy in the midstroke. I turned the internals of a few x2 to sand and went looking for something better. Chalk it up to another product not handling the edge of its usage range well. The Storia isn't much heavier than the X2 and solves all those problems.

Reply

Mojo16rider
0
Jakub Gábriš  - July 17, 2021, 4:59 a.m.

You are most likely forgetting that there was more than one gen. of X2. When g16 was released, it was designed around X2 that was without max pressure sticker and allowed more volume spacers to be fitted, it was also offered as an option to float x as X2 was released later. With later gen. of x2 (after recall) it all went to shit with max. pressure and max. spacers limit set lower than what was preferred when it was released and with poppet valves used in X2 you are not getting any support from damping circuit without adding a lot of harshness(and even with the harshness the support is not something to write home about). It also good to note, geometron g16 and nicolai ion16 were different in terms of kinematics as well, something not every owner realizes. If I was getting new shock for g16 I would either get storia/arma v3 tuned by geometron guys if I was from UK, or get cheap marzo coil and send it to AVA to get it tuned for me if I was from NA. G16 has sweet progressive leverage rate that works like a charm with coil. g1 is not that different in terms of progression, biggest change was related to changes to EXT shock as such(spherical bearings, negative spring, hydraulic topout) rather than kinematics.

Reply

Bushpilot
0
Bushpilot  - July 16, 2021, 12:54 p.m.

Mind sharing your weight and Storia settings? I see the part about the 475 spring and the rebound tweak. Curious to know what you're running for HSC and LSC on the shock.

Reply

craw
0
Cr4w  - July 16, 2021, 12:58 p.m.

Only a few clicks of each. It's pretty much how it came tuned and set from Geometron. I've experimented a few clicks up and down on both but always end pretty much the way it came initially.

I'm around 220lbs, maybe 235 all geared up.

I'll probably have the rebound valved a little slower at the next service. The rebound clicks happen in a very narrow range so the base tune has to be pretty close to perfect.

Reply

BenHD
+5 AJ Barlas DancingWithMyself Pete Roggeman Dan firevsh2o
BenHD  - July 16, 2021, 12:55 p.m.

Cool series, more of this please! I also really enjoyed the pictures.

Reply

moraucf
+2 Pete Roggeman Endur-Bro
moraucf  - July 16, 2021, 3:47 p.m.

sooo uhhh as a current G16 owner... Do you know what about the G1 is working better for you? You better not give a great compelling answer cause I really don't need to be buying new frames right now =P

Fun writeup btw!

Reply

craw
+4 moraucf Pete Roggeman Dan Endur-Bro
Cr4w  - July 16, 2021, 8:12 p.m.

The G1 is better for me for a number of key reasons.

I actually found the XL G16 too long in the cockpit. The G1 has a 1' steeper ESTA which shortens the ETT by about 2cm, which is perfect for me though now on the G1 I run a 50mm stem instead of 35.

The much bigger down tube helps a lot with stiffness on a bike this long.

My G16 the handlebar couldn't swing over the top tube cleanly in a crash. I hated that even though it never actually happened. The G1 has a shorter seat tube and better stand over so that clearance is much improved.

The G16 had 17mm of BB drop which never felt like it cornered like it should. My G1 is set with nearly 1cm more BB drop which is significant.

I wanted a coil shock.

None of these by themselves would have warranted a new bike. But all together it was definitely worth it.

Sorry, lol.

Reply

moraucf
0
moraucf  - July 17, 2021, 4:13 p.m.

all fair points! Will agree that the one thing that bugs me is ETT feels slightly to long for me as well on it. 

I'm still dumbfounded that no one makes a 200+mm forward offset dropper post. It's all I need to fix that issue. Beyond that I think I'm safe from G1 lust....for now.

Reply

fartymarty
0
fartymarty  - July 16, 2021, 11:56 p.m.

Alex, what is your bar height (top of grip to ground) measurement?  Your bars look low in the photos but it is probably because of the long HT.  Thanks Martin

Reply

Mojo16rider
0
Jakub Gábriš  - July 17, 2021, 5:21 a.m.

It deffo is low, short forks, flat stem, low rise bars and 5mm spacer? That is XC bar height for someone close to 2m :)

Reply

craw
+1 Andrew Major
Cr4w  - July 17, 2021, 12:08 p.m.

A 2m person with proportionally long arms. Look at the photo with the triangle superimposed. Does that position look excessively XC?

Reply

Mojo16rider
-1 Cr4w
Jakub Gábriš  - July 17, 2021, 12:31 p.m.

I have good idea of proportions of the bike and I do think you would benefit from higher bar height for sure. But you should post bar heigh measurement for sure, if I had to play guessing game, I would guess 1060mm to the center of bar end cap.

Reply

craw
0
Cr4w  - July 17, 2021, 3:41 p.m.

Do you now. And do you think with that huge stack of spacers that maybe I considered that?

Reply

fartymarty
0
fartymarty  - July 18, 2021, 12:14 a.m.

The triangle looks spot-on.  It's the first time I've seen this used but makes a ton of sense.

The reason I asked about bar height is because my bars have come up a lot in the last 12 months but I've changed forks (old Pike to Öhlins m2 coil), tyres (Exo to Tough WTB) and bar sweep (16s back to 12s) which has let me raise the bars.  I think my position has changed as well to being more over the front of the bike.  I think it's one of those things that is very personal and depends on so many factors that you can't just out a number on it.

It's interesting for me to see different people's logic in how they set up their bikes.

Reply

craw
0
Cr4w  - July 19, 2021, 8:30 a.m.

How do you think these factors (switching forks, heavier tires, reduced bar sweep) influenced your bar height? Did you raise the bars to maintain a feel you had previously or did the new gear encourage you to find comfort in a new position?

Reply

fartymarty
+1 Cr4w
fartymarty  - July 20, 2021, 2:11 a.m.

Alex, for reference i'm 6'1" and ride an XL Murmur (515 reach) with a 160mm fork.  I was previously running a Pike RC and 2.5 DHF exo w/o insert on a 30ID rim.  I was running a 16 degree SQLabs bar (high rise).  I ran the 40mm stem slammed as the steerer had been cut too short by the previous owner.  I try and run the centre of the grips through the centre of the steering axis - as noted in Paul Astons G1 setup.

In Jan I switched the fork to an Ohlins coil m2 which has similar offset to the Pike.  I left the steerer long enough to get 20mm of spacers under the stem.  The basis for this is that if I run my 70mm rise Ergotec 12 degree bar (currently on my HT) I could raise the bars quite high (90mm overall rise) or put on a flatish bar and no spacers if I wanted the front low (say 10mm overall rise).

I ran the 70mm rise bars once I got the fork on with the stem slammed and also changed the front tyre to a Verdict High Grip Light for UK winter (which has a much more supportive casing than the DHF exo).

I think the combo of the supple fork and super grippy front tyre gave me more front grip or more confidence in the front.  As such I didn't need to actively weight the front as much therefore could lift the bars.  I switched the 70mm bars to a 50mm rise Ergotec 12 degree and added the 20mm of spacers under the stem.  I think also changing the bars from 16s to 12s has moved my weight forward slightly (more weigh on the front wheel) which has also let me raise the bar height.

As an interesting experiment I should put the 16s back on and see how this affects things.

morgan-heater
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Morgan Heater  - July 19, 2021, 10:41 a.m.

Honestly, it does look like when you stand up to descend, you'd be a lot less upright than I prefer. I watched a video of myself riding my g16, and realized that I wasn't keeping my head up, because I my chest was so low in my relaxed riding position.

That doesn't mean that your position isn't perfect for you, though.

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trumpstinyhands
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trumpstinyhands  - July 17, 2021, 2:59 p.m.

It's funny how different welding styles can be. These are huge! They remind me a bit of the old American (ABM) frames from back in the day.

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tripsforkidsvancouver
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tripsforkidsvancouver  - July 20, 2021, 12:01 p.m.

6"3 and a sprightly 175lbs and 36" inseam with seat about as high as Alex's above.

Not sure if this helps but I've been on an XL 2021 Norco Sight (515mm reach) for last two months which supposedly has a longer reach than my old XL Giant Reign (485mm) so +30mm in Reach. The Reign had an ancient 73 degree seat angle and Sight now 78 degree. I've got my handlebar height nearly identical between bikes (one spacer and 50mm rise bar) but for some reason even with the Sight I feel like I am going to get thrown over the handlebars. I just did six Westside Whistler laps in 25 hours to confirm this! With the Reign I was may more stretched out but this is because of the 73 degree seat angle.

I'm now pedaling way more anatomically correct with the steep seat angle and can actually activate my glutes on climbs. Because of this I've immediately adapted to a more forward PEDALING style. I think I am centred on the bike and now it just feels awkward to "push back my body" to descend, but, I need to do this to keep from getting thrown forward over the bars compared to the Reign.

So anyways, I think XL bikes with steep seat angles (78-80 degrees) need longer reaches than are maybe currently being spec'd? I think Alex's G1's 535mm sounds perfect for me (+20mm from current 515mm on Sight).

The steep seat angle is literally the greatest transformation in last three years for tall guys on MTBs with high seats since the dropper post.

This permanently alters your riding style from being too far back and relying on your hamstrings while pedaling and descending in the crouch position, to being more centred/forward on the bike and actually using your glutes on climbs and in the crouch position.

Takeaway of the steeper seat angle is I think you need a longer reach on XL bikes to compensate for this. Longer than 515mm reach for my XL sight. 

Lots of tall guys here. Anyone come to the same conclusion?

(FYI - same fork travel between two bikes above - 160mm. The Fox 36 on my Norco Sight runs with less sag than Pike on Giant Reign, so, this should put my front end HIGHER, but, instead, I feel like I am going to get thrown over the bars more with the Sight. Answer must the the REACH/Effective Top Tube!)

Follow up: at least the Pole evolink and Geometron frames are spec’d with a 535mm reach in XL. I think they may be onto something!

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tripsforkidsvancouver
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tripsforkidsvancouver  - July 20, 2021, 2:15 p.m.

This comment has been removed.

craw
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Cr4w  - July 20, 2021, 3:18 p.m.

The first time I considered this issue was when AMajor brought it up in his test of the Kona Satori which bumped up the ESTA (good!) but didn't add a commensurate amount of Reach to keep the cockpit the right size (less good!).

https://nsmb.com/articles/2018-kona-satori-dl/

It doesn't take a lot of consideration to realize that if you steepen the ESTA you'll lose a bunch of ETT and will need to add that cockpit space back as Reach. And once the rider is that far forward a slacker head angle and shorter stem make a lot more sense and doesn't result in floppy steering as it would on a bike where the rider is positioned rearwards.

This, like a lot of other simple math, is really hard for bike designers to get their heads around. Or maybe designers are accommodating peoples' general inability to consider the system and just focus on a single number: Reach. People look at newer bikes' Reach numbers without considering the system and assume the bikes just got really long (because the new Reach number is much bigger than the Reach number from their current bike with a 74' ESTA).

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fartymarty
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fartymarty  - July 20, 2021, 11:19 p.m.

Trips - how does your butt to bar compare between bikes? My Krampus (441r) and Murmur (515r) have a similar (within a few mm) butt to bar.  You are probably a lot further forward on the Sight hence the feeling of going over the front.  

Have you tried lifting your bars?

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Endur-Bro
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Endur-Bro  - July 27, 2021, 2:42 a.m.

Really need to stop reading reviews of bikes.  Hahaha

Do you use the Lok switch on the Storia? I continue to wonder if the Arma would be a better shock for this bike? This as a person who has G16 @175 with X2 without a climbing switch and hasn't used a switch in well almost ever. 

I find my G16 a little stretched out whilst doing seated pedalling. The G1 steeper STA should help with that, also more BB drop would put myself lower into the bike. Which should also help with the amount of spacers I have under the stem to get bar height up.

¯\(ツ)

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ThePunkHucker
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Sylvain Gravel  - July 27, 2021, 7:24 p.m.

I like your approach to riding and your position on the industry.  I’m not surprised you ended up on a Geometron and your hardtail looks like a joy to ride.

Enjoy!

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